Mike LaGrange's rifles

[Nhoro]

So checked with national parks guys I know. They used FN military issue rifles- full auto but set to semi auto for all of the smaller else. They used standard military issue ammo- not armor piercing. They used 458 win mag on bulls. Chris commented that art alphins rounds were the first monolithics they had seen but he doesn’t recall the weight. He said the 458’s were a mixed bag - bsa, Winchester and FN from what he can recall. There may also have been private rifles used but on a national parks salary, I would guess they used the issue rifles as much as possible. So the humble 308 probably dispatched more elephant than any other cartridge and the 458 win mag more than all the ‘proper’ cartridges !

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

So checked with national parks guys I know. They used FN military issue rifles- full auto but set to semi auto for all of the smaller else. They used standard military issue ammo- not armor piercing. They used 458 win mag on bulls. Chris commented that art alphins rounds were the first monolithics they had seen but he doesn’t recall the weight. He said the 458’s were a mixed bag - bsa, Winchester and FN from what he can recall. There may also have been private rifles used but on a national parks salary, I would guess they used the issue rifles as much as possible. So the humble 308 probably dispatched more elephant than any other cartridge and the 458 win mag more than all the ‘proper’ cartridges !

Nhoro
This is most interesting. Based on the photograph of the hunter in question and what words he himself used as kindly posted on this thread by IvW , l would think that this Mr. LaGrange used a double barrel rifle calibrated for magnum .458 Winchester loaded with 500 grain metal envelope bullets from the firm , Hornady for bull elephants. For smaller elephants , he must have used the 7.62 millimeter automatic rifle which you all mention.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

So checked with national parks guys I know. They used FN military issue rifles- full auto but set to semi auto for all of the smaller else. They used standard military issue ammo- not armor piercing. They used 458 win mag on bulls. Chris commented that art alphins rounds were the first monolithics they had seen but he doesn’t recall the weight. He said the 458’s were a mixed bag - bsa, Winchester and FN from what he can recall. There may also have been private rifles used but on a national parks salary, I would guess they used the issue rifles as much as possible. So the humble 308 probably dispatched more elephant than any other cartridge and the 458 win mag more than all the ‘proper’ cartridges !

Hey thanks , man !
I think that all the rifles used in the cull were ISSUED guns as you and IvW noted
I conclude with this list :
For culling Elephants :
Normal cullers used FN Fal assault rifles in 7.62 × 51 NATO loaded with FMJ solids for small critters and .458 Win Mag Winchester , BSA or FN bolt action rifles for bulls
Don Heath's men used Dragunov Soviet captured rifles loaded with 7.62 × 54 R armor piercing ammo and M1 Garands loaded with A Square 220 grain monolithic solids for shooting cows and calves and any rifle over .375 HH Magnum for shooting bulls
( Since A Square's .30-06 Monolithic solids which were commercially available , only weighed 180 grains , l'm guessing that Art Alphin must have made a special batch of heavier bullets for the elephant cullers )
Mike LaGrange used an FN Fal in 7.62 × 51 NATO loaded with military FMJ solids for small critters and an issued .458 Win Mag rifle for bulls. IvW speculates that it was a BSA emperor ( CRF ) or a BSA Majestic ( push feed ) , but the pic which IvW showed us , might indicate that it could have been a .458 Win Mag double , maybe. But Mike didn't use Monolithic solids. He favored FMJ Hornady 500 grains , as per his own words which IvW posted here
Mystery solved

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Thanks for the write up IvW, I had wondered how it was done.

 

[Major Khan]

I have this book " Ballistics in Perspective " . Give me 5 minutes and l will look through the book for you .

 

[sestoppelman]

I believe Hoss already has his info. I too have a copy and sent him pix of quite a few pages a month or so ago.

 

[Major Khan]

I believe Hoss already has his info. I too have a copy and sent him pix of quite a few pages a month or so ago.

Oh you did , Sestoppelman ? I found this thread by random and l recognized the name of the hunter in question. I purchased the book in 2009.

 

[sestoppelman]

Yes, he promised me top billing, co author title, and 50 free copies of the book!! What a guy!

 

[Major Khan]

After quickly reading my copy of the book written by Mr. La Grange , l was able to find what you are looking for @Hoss Delgado . Here is the information :
The issued rifles used by the Department of National Parks and Wild Life Management for culling the African elephants were as follows-
.458 Winchester magnum Mauser bolt rifles made by Fabrique Nationale , all of which had to be " re head spaced and re blued "
.375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre pre 64 Winchester Model 70 bolt rifles , all of which had to be " re head spaced and re blued "

Regarding Mr. La Grange's personal rifles , he only makes mention of a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 chambered in .375 Holland & Holland magnum with a " bull barrel " .

Mr. La Grange deems the .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre , as suitable for side brain shots on elephants , but not frontal brain shots .

There is a chart in the last few pages which lists all of the calibres used for the elephant culling .
The .458 Winchester magnum calibre was used the most , using 500 grain solid metal covered Hornady bullets , loaded by a company named A Square .
After that , the .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre was used the 2nd most , using 300 grain Hornady solid metal covered bullets , also loaded by the company named A Square .

Nothing else is mentioned .
The charts mention that the following calibres were tried on elephants , but were not fired in sufficient quantities for any real culling :
1 dozen .458 Winchester magnum calibre monolithic solid bullets were also used , made by the company , Hornady ( in 470 grain weight )
6 cartridges of .416 Rigby were fired . These were 410 grain solid metal covered bullets made by the company , Hornady
5 cartridges of .470 Nitro Express were fired. These were 500 grain solid metal covered bullets made by a company named Bell .
The numbers of cartridges expended in these calibres are a good indication that these calibres were barely used at all for the culling conducted by Mr. La Grange .
I have only listed whatever he actually mentions that he used , not what he recommends .
I am afraid that l cannot give you anymore information , Hoss Delgado . The author's thoughts are very scattered and you need to read the book yourself to get a more clear picture .
However , this is a very good book . I purchased it , mainly because l was ( and still am ) fascinated by elephant shooting , since that is the 1 brute in India which l never got to hunt.
He ( like any sensible shikaree of thick skinned game ) makes no mention of using any .30-06 Springfield calibre fire arms for dispatching elephants .
All the best .

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

After quickly reading my copy of the book written by Mr. La Grange , l was able to find what you are looking for @Hoss Delgado . Here is the information :
The issued rifles used by the Department of National Parks and Wild Life Management for culling the African elephants were as follows-
.458 Winchester magnum Mauser bolt rifles made by Fabrique Nationale , all of which had to be " re head spaced and re blued "
.375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre pre 64 Winchester Model 70 bolt rifles , all of which had to be " re head spaced and re blued "

Regarding Mr. La Grange's personal rifles , he only makes mention of a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 chambered in .375 Holland & Holland magnum with a " bull barrel " .

Mr. La Grange deems the .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre , as suitable for side brain shots on elephants , but not frontal brain shots .

There is a chart in the last few pages which lists all of the calibres used for the elephant culling .
The .458 Winchester magnum calibre was used the most , using 500 grain solid metal covered Hornady bullets , loaded by a company named A Square .
After that , the .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre was used the 2nd most , using 300 grain Hornady solid metal covered bullets , also loaded by the company named A Square .

Nothing else is mentioned .
The charts mention that the following calibres were tried on elephants , but were not fired in sufficient quantities for any real culling :
1 dozen .458 Winchester magnum calibre monolithic solid bullets were also used , made by the company , Hornady ( in 470 grain weight )
6 cartridges of .416 Rigby were fired . These were 410 grain solid metal covered bullets made by the company , Hornady
5 cartridges of .470 Nitro Express were fired. These were 500 grain solid metal covered bullets made by a company named Bell .
The numbers of cartridges expended in these calibres are a good indication that these calibres were barely used at all for the culling conducted by Mr. La Grange .
I have only listed whatever he actually mentions that he used , not what he recommends .
I am afraid that l cannot give you anymore information , Hoss Delgado . The author's thoughts are very scattered and you need to read the book yourself to get a more clear picture .
However , this is a very good book . I purchased it , mainly because l was ( and still am ) fascinated by elephant shooting , since that is the 1 brute in India which l never got to hunt.
He ( like any sensible shikaree of thick skinned game ) makes no mention of using any .30-06 Springfield calibre fire arms for dispatching elephants .
All the best .

Poton
You are too late to the party . I highly doubt the original poster will ever touch a firearm in the United States of America , ever again now . If only you knew about this beautiful hunters' community two months previously !
On a related subject , l found the information you provided most fascinating , old friend . It takes a great deal of analysis to scan through a book so quickly and find specific information.
However , l must ask : what does " Re-headspacing " mean ?

 

[BenKK]

What happened to the original poster, Sir?

 

[bruce moulds]

maybe he went on safari to burkina faso and was not booked into international rescue.
bruce.

 

[IvW]

He is in exile...

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

What happened to the original poster, Sir?

Ben KK
The poor young man ran afoul of the law.

 

[BenKK]

What happened?

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

What happened?

Ben KK
I am sending you a private message.

 

[Major Khan]

Ben KK
The poor young man ran afoul of the law.

Isn't that Manuel's son , Kawshik ?
Tell me what happened too.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Isn't that Manuel's son , Kawshik ?
Tell me what happened too.

Poton
I will tell you tomorrow when we all meet for the 31st party .

 

[shootist~]

FN as in FN-FAL? That FN was not a 30-06 (7.62x63), but a 7.62x51, aka a .308.

 

[bruce moulds]

prior to the fal I think they made a 30/06 that looked more of the garand style.
bruce.