Midland gun company

[Doubles and Duggaboys]

Hi all is there anyone that can give me any info on this midland 470NE, will attach photos

 

[thriller]

Looks nice buts that’s all I know

 

[Andrew Short]

There are several people on the site that can help. I would suggest posting pictures of the proof markings on the barrel as well.

 

[WAB]

Midland Arms - Home Of The Backpack

The origins of Midland firearms began in the late 19th Century when Midland Gun Company was established in Birmingham, England.

www.shootmidland.com

 

[Red Leg]

Midland Arms is an absolute enigma. The company records were destroyed during the Blitz in WWII. The men who built the original guns were long dead before books started to be written about the Birmingham trade. What little is known comes from their period catalogs that survived and the guns themselves.

The pre-war guns were as well made as any in Birmingham. The post-war Parker Hale production will not inspire much pride of ownership. Even without seeing the flats, I am confident that this is a pre-war rifle.

I have seen quite a few of their SxS shotguns, and most were solid A&D boxlocks of the type that made up much of the Birmingham production. A friend had lovely pre-war non-ejector sidelock by Midland. If you window shop Guns International or the dealers who specialize in douibles, you will find they are priced in the same range as other period Birmingham gunmakers.

I have never seen a double rifle by Midland. The photos don't tell us much about this one. Photos of the barrel flats, breach face, muzzles, and closer profiles of the action would be useful. The case is a modern one with a reproduction label.

Positives are that they seem to have used a long rifle-sized A&D action as its basis rather than a shotgun action. The stock is obviously outstanding.

Only negative from the limited photos are the action plate screws which have been buggered a little by some idiot getting into the action with the wrong tool (screwdriver out of a tool box).

Assuming the action itself is still in good shape (after the above idiot quit poking around), and the barrels are still properly jointed with clean rifling, it could well be a great find.

 

[rookhawk]

Hi all is there anyone that can give me any info on this midland 470NE, will attach photos

Mid-grade guns from a tier-3 maker. Most likely made by W.C. Scott, Webley, or Westley and privately labeled as almost all boxlocks were. Yours was more embellished than most, but was heavily reworked and restocked.

It will likely be a reliable shooter for relatively small money compared to the identical, next gun on the bench, engraved with a more prestigious retailer's name on the rib.

If you want to share the serial number I may have Midland's ledgers that would give you a date of manufacture and other info. (serial number and if present, the engraved street address of Midland is what I'd need)

 

[rookhawk]

Just noticed your serial number 57774. No luck on finding the ledgers remnants as @Red Leg gave insight, but I did find their advert info. If an address is noted on the gun, we could determine approximate year of manufacture:

Price Street = 1906-1908
77 Bath Street - 1909-1927
76/77 Bath Street - 1928-1940
10 Bailey Street - 1941
74 Whittall Street - 1942-1951 and also at 76/77 Bath Street 1959-1961

By the style of engraving, I would attribute it to the 1906-1927 era, probably on the early side of the range.

They offered an Anson & Deeley boxlock double rifle in their catalogs. Priced as follows:

circa 1908 - £30
1931 - £40
1935 - £42

They didn't offer double rifles in their catalog in 1955, but they were subsumed by Parker Hale circa 1952 and catered to lower grade guns and a wide array of accessories by that point.

 

[Red Leg]

Mid-grade guns from a tier-3 maker. Most likely made by W.C. Scott, Webley, or Westley and privately labeled as almost all boxlocks were. Yours was more embellished than most, but was heavily reworked and restocked.

It will likely be a reliable shooter for relatively small money compared to the identical, next gun on the bench, engraved with a more prestigious retailer's name on the rib.

If you want to share the serial number I may have Midland's ledgers that would give you a date of manufacture and other info. (serial number and if present, the engraved street address of Midland is what I'd need)

You have Midland's ledgers?!?

 

[rookhawk]

You have Midland's ledgers?!?

Extracts of any remnant info was derived from Nigel Brown's three volume set. No serial number ledgers noted, only triangulation of production dates via address info and sale prices via brochures.

 

[Dewald]

I know the rifle. Built on a Webley & Scott long bar action. It has extractors, not ejectors, which is not a bad thing. It was at Classic Arms for long. I considered buying it in 2020. Both barrels had slight pitting in them on inspection with a bore-scope and the rifle was starting to get off face, with distinct palpable play . At that stage I did not want to go through the effort of having it rejointed, given they were asking R220 000 for it (US$ 12 200). It would have been a nice .470 had it been looked after.

Ns. I also asked for photos of the muzzle and barrel flats, but Francois, the salesman didn’t seem to know what the latter term ment…

 

[Dewald]

The other thing that bothered me, was that the action was assaulted with a buffing wheel, leaving not one square edge or colour left, and the engraving shallow.

If it shoots and works as a tool for you in Mozambique, all good, but in terms of investment value it was not worth the buy, ie pitting, off face, buffing, and screws not set in line with a proper turnscrew, leaving the distinct shade tree smith tool-marks.

 

[Pondoro]

It seems that double rifles marked as Midland Gun Co. are relatively few and far between.. I have a double by them with 2 barrel sets, both equally numbered, .475NE 3 1/4 and .280 Flanged NE. Both numbered 50712.. I spoke to the late Cal Pappas about it..he had a .600 by John Wilkes that looked very similar to mine...you see John Wilkes had a workshop in Birmingham until 1930 and surely made rifles on demand as all the makers Roohawk mentioned did...times were mighty lean for the gun business during the depression.. Cal was resonably sure that my rifle was indeed made by Wilkes. Mine has relatively short barrels at 23"..shoe lump barrels. Extractors only..

Luckily my .475 barrels are excellent plus...a testimony to previous owners..I took it to Botswana and shot elephant with it..

The action on the rifle Dewald show looks exactly like mine...albeit mine only has scroll engraving..no animals..

Rifle restocked in turkish walnut..

 

[Dewald]

Nice rifle

 

[John Telford]

 

[John Telford]

Midland doubles are very rare . I looked at this rifle and almost bought it however I bought three other rifles on that auction so ran out of budget. The engraving looks like the rifle may have been in India. I agree with Dewalt in that is is a gun to be used more than an investment piece so if you can get it for $15000 go for it.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Several Midland Gun Co. firearms were imported into British India prior to the colonial era coming to an end in 1947. In our part of the world, Midland Gun Co. firearms are frequently found gracing the secondhand racks of local gun stores.

This is their last pre World-War II catalog (11938) and as can clearly be seen, double rifles are still listed. But after World War II, Midland Gun Co. only manufactured shotguns up until the company permanently closed their doors in 1961.

Here is an interesting Midland Gun Co. boxlock extractor combination gun in 12 gauge (2.5") & .500 Black Powder Express.

Their boxlock shotguns and rifles were all exclusively built on Webley & Scott actions. Very robust and durable weapons which never quite attained the same level of fame as the more renowned English gun makers (such as James Purdey & Sons, John Rigby & Co. Holland & Holland or Westley Richards). My father owns a very beautiful Midland Gun Co. "Super Demon Duck" boxlock ejector in 12 gauge 3" Magnum with 32" fully choked barrels (proofed for 1 1/2 ounces of lead shot i.e the old English paper cased wildfowling cartridges). He purchased it brand new from England in 1960 and the shotgun still functions spotlessly (even this season, he racked up a most impressive bag of golden snipe with the grand old gun).

As @Dewald notes, your .470 Nitro Express is off-face and has pitted barrels. If the rifling is still serviceable and barrels can be put back on-face, then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it as an entry level rough use dangerous game rifle.

 

[Berettaco]

All the above have covered what I know and then some. I’m not sure what gunsmithing services are available in Mozambique or where you could reasonably drive/ship it to without a bunch of red tape. Due to that unknown I would probably pass on the deal if the rifle is off face and has pitting. The price would have to be very low for me to buy it - plenty of nice doubles out there that are field ready. I’ve owned several midlands - the quality is there but the collector value not so much.

 

[Pondoro]

Several Midland Gun Co. firearms were imported into British India prior to the colonial era coming to an end in 1947. In our part of the world, Midland Gun Co. firearms are frequently found gracing the secondhand racks of local gun stores.

This is their last pre World-War II catalog (11938) and as can clearly be seen, double rifles are still listed. But after World War II, Midland Gun Co. only manufactured shotguns up until the company permanently closed their doors in 1961.
View attachment 575450

Here is an interesting Midland Gun Co. boxlock extractor combination gun in 12 gauge (2.5") & .500 Black Powder Express.
View attachment 575451
View attachment 575453
View attachment 575454
View attachment 575455
View attachment 575456
View attachment 575457

Their boxlock shotguns and rifles were all exclusively built on Webley & Scott actions. Very robust and durable weapons which never quite attained the same level of fame as the more renowned English gun makers (such as James Purdey & Sons, John Rigby & Co. Holland & Holland or Westley Richards). My father owns a very beautiful Midland Gun Co. "Super Demon Duck" boxlock ejector in 12 gauge 3" Magnum with 32" fully choked barrels (proofed for 1 1/2 ounces of lead shot i.e the old English paper cased wildfowling cartridges). He purchased it brand new from England in 1960 and the shotgun still functions spotlessly (even this season, he racked up a most impressive bag of golden snipe with the grand old gun).

As @Dewald notes, your .470 Nitro Express is off-face and has pitted barrels. If the rifling is still serviceable and barrels can be put back on-face, then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it as an entry level rough use dangerous game rifle.

Golam..if you have that catalouge...could you please show the pages advertising double rifles..?

 

[rigbymauser]

I have handled a Midland .303 doublerifle in Copenhagen. Very heavy for a .303 but for a boxlock it had "purdey" wood. Very attractive gun but again one would feel one is hauling around with an anvil. My C&H .500ex is much lighter.