Mid-Century High Grade American Sporting Rifle - G&H, A&F, Niedner, Hoffman?

[rookhawk]

I thought I'd throw this gun up that I bought for my ten-year-old, but he is so madly in love with his 7x64 Mauser and his 7x65r double rifle and he never, ever uses this gun. We've never even shot it.

I've spent the past two years trying to figure out the maker on this gun. When you sort it out conclusively, it will certainly appreciate in value. To my eyes and to everyone I've shown it to, it was made by an expert or group of experts to a high standard and has many elements that lend itself to being a Griffin & Howe. However, the original barrel was re-profiled and reused so there is no G&H marking nor serial number on the barrel. (G&H only marked their guns if they built the barrel from scratch in this era)

It's a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 action with a recontoured barrel in .270 Winchester. It has a hooded front sight. It has a lyman rear aperture sight. It has a flawlessly installed Griffin & Howe side mount. It features a brand new Leica 2-10x50mm optic. (box and papers included)

It features a Niedner steel butt plate with an inletted widow's peak. It has G&H style crosshatch jeweling. It has a five-panel pear-shaped bolt handle engraved. The G&H side mount was perfectly indexed so the levers lock at horizontal which is a tremendous amount of effort. The custom stock has beautiful Fleur-De-Lis panels and features a horn grip cap and forend tip. Under both horn pieces appear to be an inlay of bloodwood or other similar exotic wood. The stock has a shadow line cheekpiece. The opposite side has an inlay marquetry diamond in bloodwood.

I'll let this go to a good home for exactly what I have into it. I bought the rifle for a song but it had a crap scope on it. I then paid G&H $600 to have custom 30mm scope rings built to my specifications so the original G&H mount would work perfectly with the new optic. I sourced a Leica scope, about $1300-$1400. The original Lyman rear aperture sight was missing when I got it. I found a period correct one on eBay and installed it. (included, not shown in pictures) I also cleaned the stock and applied a bit more oil and slacum to the stock and then paste wax. Overall, I have about $4200 into the rifle so it is being offered for sale for $4200.

I'd wager this will be the nicest gun you'll find on the Net this year at this price point.

 

[Justin.]

What an absolutely lovely gun!

 

[Ray B]

What year is the M 70?

 

[rookhawk]

What an absolutely lovely gun!

Thanks, Justin.

I think its a dandy, its just not big enough for me to shoot (I'm a giant) and the middle kid has become a metric-caliber snob. Rough math says to have this gun made today would run about $12,000-$15,000.

 

[rookhawk]

What year is the M 70?

Hi @Ray B the serial number of the action indicates late 1941 production from Winchester. The Griffin & Howe scope mount has the 1932 patent date that they used at least until the mid-40s I believe. So my conjecture is the custom gun was built sometime in the early to mid-40s.

 

[Justin.]

Thanks, Justin.

I think its a dandy, its just not big enough for me to shoot (I'm a giant) and the middle kid has become a metric-caliber snob. Rough math says to have this gun made today would run about $12,000-$15,000.

What’s the LOP?

Before you know it he’s gonna be on here defending his favorite calibers LOL!

 

[rookhawk]

What’s the LOP?

Before you know it he’s gonna be on here defending his favorite calibers LOL!

LOP to the steel butt plate is roughly 13-1/2".

Indeed, you'll hear an earful on this forum once my ten year old middle kid is allowed to post on forums. He's always had insane amounts of patience and a sick amount of good luck to match. He has more record book animals than I have. When he was 8 he drew the 1600:1 non-resident New Mexico Oryx tag. (record animal taken) He shot a better pronghorn than me last year. (record animal taken) He's shot better wildebeest too. Better bear. He's killed better game with his bow than me too.

It's with this assortment of facts, some earned by skill, others by luck, that result in my inability to convince him a .270 is better than a 7x64 brenneke. His reply "huh, my 7x64 took an eland in one shot, is that .270 suitable for eland too? Didn't think so."

I've come to realize being a parent of hunters is a full-time job focused on logistics, draw odds, facilitation of truancy, and chauffeur services. And in this case, selling a rifle that exceeds the quality of guns I owned for my first 30 years on behalf of a ten-year-old with particular tastes.

 

[Joker12]

I wish I had a spare $4200, that's a lovely rifle.

 

[JPmbogo]

I wish you were my dad when I was 10 - I had to wait until I was almost 50 to get my own double rifle!

 

[rookhawk]

I wish you were my dad when I was 10 - I had to wait until I was almost 50 to get my own double rifle!

I boot-strapped the kid with about $1500 along the way. The rest has been up to him. He bought some broken guns over the years for $50 and got replacement stocks, sold them for $300-$400. Parlayed that into a Merkel Combination Gun. Sold that for $3000. Bought his Heym double rifle with the proceeds on this forum. Same story with his custom mauser in 7x64, scrounged $800, bought a $3200 rifle for $800 that languished at Cabelas, did chores and some gunsmithing work in exchange for EAW pivot mounts and his swaro scope, etc. He cleaned and restored a number of gun cases we bought from an estate and I split the proceeds with him since he did a lot of the conservation effort on them. That covered his safari and then some.

He's pretty frugal and he has earned about 90% of the money he has wrapped up into his sporting equipment at this point. I tell him if he keeps going at this rate, he may opt to sell off his collection to cover college expenses in 8 years rather than take on a debt load.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet he buys a 375hh mauser with the proceeds from this sale as he has been itching to get a gun suitable for buffalo and hippo.

If you shop at Goodwill and Salvation Army every week, you have enough left over to shop at H&H and Rigby once a year.

 

[Justin.]

He’s learning some priceless lessons! Great job! And at this rate he’s going to own some priceless gun LOL!

 

[JPmbogo]

Sir, you deserve the "father of the year" or maybe decade in this case. Your son sounds like the next Besos, Musk, or Gates. If he starts his own company, let me know - I want to buy some of the stock.

 

[eloudamy]

You’re teaching him the value of hard work and discipline that a lot of us had to learn the hard way. This is definitely more about life learning than just hunting. Great work, dad. Sounds he’s very blessed, way more than if you’d paid for this for him.

 

[Ray B]

You could just call it a 6.9x63mm if he prefers the metric system. I think the case actually measures 64mm but calling it x64mm might cause confusion with the 7x64mm

 

[AZDAVE]

"I've come to realize being a parent of hunters is a full-time job focused on logistics, draw odds, facilitation of truancy, and chauffeur services. And in this case, selling a rifle that exceeds the quality of guns I owned for my first 30 years on behalf of a ten-year-old with particular tastes."

This is a tough problem to have! I am envious. My Son's didn't develop a desire for the outdoors that I did, I am banking on my grand sons and grand daughters. You have a son that has values and work ethic, you need him to teach the same things to the under 25 crowd.

Can't argure with him on his choices of the 7x64 and 7x65R over the 270 as I would say the same things

You have a great rifle there and I think you are correct on the G&H being the builder.

 

[rookhawk]

Someone asked for a full-length picture. Ignore the 7x64 below it that my son thinks is the bees knees.

 

[rookhawk]

Sold pending funds to @Wyatt Smith

 

[Aaron N]

That was quick! Congrats to both parties!

 

[Ray B]

That's good. I was considering the purchase primarily for the 30mm G&H rings. but 42C was a little much for some rings, so glad it went to a person that would appreciate the entire package.

 

[rookhawk]

Sold pending funds to @Wyatt Smith

That's good. I was considering the purchase primarily for the 30mm G&H rings. but 42C was a little much for some rings, so glad it went to a person that would appreciate the entire package.

@Ray B you can get Griffin & Howe to sell you 30mm rings. I think they go $400-$500 if you already have the rest of the top assembly and you have the base mount. (Full Mounts with 30mm rings are about $1500) The tricky part is what to do with a Griffin & Howe scope mount already installed on an action. Griffin and Howe has blank 1” and 30mm rings and they can machine them to any height they want them for custom work they do. They were quoting me a very long wait and a huge charge to do that for me while demanding I send them the rifle. I begged them and I said “No returns, no exchanges, I’ll give you exactly the height I need and fit them myself, just please make the rings”. They reluctantly agreed. If you call them, they’ll definitely sell you off the shelf 30mm rings, no promises if they’ll custom make you an odd height like they did for my request.