Micro Red Dot Sight Options for Double Rifles

[Scrumbag]

Ed,

This is quite a handy guide for red dots and their foot prints:

https://optics-info.com/footprints-on-red-dot-sights/

I'm not sure it is exhaustive but is pretty good.

ATB,

Scrummy

 

[Ed Lally]

Thanks Scrummy. Guys like you make this site special. Ed

 

[Scrumbag]

Ed, pleasure.

Quite a few people on here helped me sort my 9.3, only fair to share!

 

[vette447]

Update:
I just my Rigby back from JJ today and I am very happy. He built a red dot mount using the thumbscrew that is torqued down using a cartridge case.. However, to keep from cutting into my rifle, he built a new rear sight piece which provides the mounting surface for the red dot mount. It contains a rear sight that can be used as normal if the red dot is removed. Also, the rifle can be put back to 100% factory by simply drifting off this rear sight piece and replacing it with the factory one standing and three folding leaf rear sight. Quite ingenious really.
Please see pics:

 

[Foxi]

Update:
I just my Rigby back from JJ today and I am very happy. He built a red dot mount using the thumbscrew that is torqued down using a cartridge case.. However, to keep from cutting into my rifle, he built a new rear sight piece which provides the mounting surface for the red dot mount. It contains a rear sight that can be used as normal if the red dot is removed. Also, the rifle can be put back to 100% factory by simply drifting off this rear sight piece and replacing it with the factory one standing and three folding leaf rear sight. Quite ingenious really.
Please see pics:

A beautiful weapon. Congratulations, almost too bad you didn't stick to the original caliber.
What was the reason for that?
The lack of availability of the .350 ?

 

[Scrumbag]

@vette447 , that's lovely! Hope you really enjoy it.

Scrummy

 

[vette447]

Thank you.

On the rifle, I did not convert it. Rigby converged it to 9.3x74R long before I owned it. I am not sure why but my guess would be ammo availability as you mentioned.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Very handsome DR!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Has anyone actually put a Trijicon SRO on their double? What moa did you select? I am going to put one on my new Verney 375 flanged magnum o/u. Will be using an RM57 detachable mount so i can quickly revert to open sights, but this will require milling two small indents on the sides of the quarter rib.

 

[chashardy]

Has anyone actually put a Trijicon SRO on their double? What moa did you select? I am going to put one on my new Verney 375 flanged magnum o/u. Will be using an RM57 detachable mount so i can quickly revert to open sights, but this will require milling two small indents on the sides of the quarter rib.

Why not use a Trijicon RMR instead? Then you don't need to worry about detachable mounts as the RMR is really better than iron sights.

 

[mikecatt13]

Massaro mentioned using a 1 MOA dot. I personally think a 3 or even 4 MOA dot would be quicker and more appropriate for a double used at under 100 yards. JMO

Theres not a ton on here that I feel I can contribute a lot to (yet) but this is definitely one. I'd recommend a smaller dot than you think you need. When the brightness is turned up high they're plenty large and fast. But you can turn them down for precision, further shots.

I shoot a 1moa red dot on a .223 AR in competition. On close targets that are only about speed, I turn it up. But i can turn it down to reliably get accurate hits out to 600yards on the clock. Alternatively, the larger dot sizes (3 or 4 moa) dont get precise enough for my liking even when turned down.

It's also my personal opinion that these moa ratings arent accurate. I think my "1moa" when turned down even is still at least 2moa and probably closer to 3, based on target size when I zero the optic off a bench at 100yds

 

[Scrumbag]

Theres not a ton on here that I feel I can contribute a lot to (yet) but this is definitely one. I'd recommend a smaller dot than you think you need. When the brightness is turned up high they're plenty large and fast. But you can turn them down for precision, further shots.

I shoot a 1moa red dot on a .223 AR in competition. On close targets that are only about speed, I turn it up. But i can turn it down to reliably get accurate hits out to 600yards on the clock. Alternatively, the larger dot sizes (3 or 4 moa) dont get precise enough for my liking even when turned down.

It's also my personal opinion that these moa ratings arent accurate. I think my "1moa" when turned down even is still at least 2moa and probably closer to 3, based on target size when I zero the optic off a bench at 100yds

I would concur with the above. Go for a smaller dot than you think you need. Also, you tend to notice a finer dot closer to your eye as the flare is more apparent. I also notice with a quality red dot the less flare I get.

 

[BeeMaa]

I found this video of a Blaser S2 470NE with a Trijicon RMR.
Although it does look like the PH put in the last shot as the client's barrel is pointing straight up.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Yesterday was spent at the range with the Ruger No1 375 H&H with Leica 1-6.3x24 red dot and the Verney o/u 375 flanged double with open sights. Shooting 300 grain Hornady DGS with 68 grains 365 in the Flanged and 70 grains in the H&H. The results after some 25 shots has changed my view on all this Red dot debate. Firstly the Verney is a perfect fit, light, balanced and every mount brings up the same sight picture. A small departure from the story but honestly guys such a thing is worth every hard saved cent. Anyway, static shots with the Ruger on 6.3 power at 50m were easily all in the 50mm black, whereas the Verney were large grapefruit, say 90mm. About 6 rounds through the Ruger and 8 through the Verney, switching between barrels. Regulation on the Verney at this distance with either Woodleighs or Hornady DGS is about 35mm. No surprises so far. Then we switched to charging lion target, engaging from about 35m in. The Ruger red dot shots on 1 power now were all oner the place and easily 200mm. Quite hard to acquire the target as it was set up to come in on a curve. If this were a real lion the shooter would probably be dead. The Verney, however, now transformed into the Cinderella and shot after shot was in 75mm, 4 in the black 50mm. Could it be, as I think is the case, that this was as much down to perfect instinctive alignment as to sighting? Deal lion every time.
In summary, the Verney ir perfectly capable of good shot on DG, buff in particular at least out to 50m and although a dot would undoubtedly reduce the hit radius, it is enough without. And if it comes, a good fitting open sight is way better. So fo me, there will be no dot sight on my Verney and my 65 year old eyes are far better aided by good fit than technology. The Ruger will remain the longer shot PG choice.

 

[perttime]

Yesterday was spent at the range with the Ruger No1 375 H&H with Leica 1-6.3x24 red dot and the Verney o/u 375 flanged double with open sights. Shooting 300 grain Hornady DGS with 68 grains 365 in the Flanged and 70 grains in the H&H. The results after some 25 shots has changed my view on all this Red dot debate. Firstly the Verney is a perfect fit, light, balanced and every mount brings up the same sight picture. A small departure from the story but honestly guys such a thing is worth every hard saved cent. Anyway, static shots with the Ruger on 6.3 power at 50m were easily all in the 50mm black, whereas the Verney were large grapefruit, say 90mm. About 6 rounds through the Ruger and 8 through the Verney, switching between barrels. Regulation on the Verney at this distance with either Woodleighs or Hornady DGS is about 35mm. No surprises so far. Then we switched to charging lion target, engaging from about 35m in. The Ruger red dot shots on 1 power now were all oner the place and easily 200mm. Quite hard to acquire the target as it was set up to come in on a curve. If this were a real lion the shooter would probably be dead. The Verney, however, now transformed into the Cinderella and shot after shot was in 75mm, 4 in the black 50mm. Could it be, as I think is the case, that this was as much down to perfect instinctive alignment as to sighting? Deal lion every time.
In summary, the Verney ir perfectly capable of good shot on DG, buff in particular at least out to 50m and although a dot would undoubtedly reduce the hit radius, it is enough without. And if it comes, a good fitting open sight is way better. So fo me, there will be no dot sight on my Verney and my 65 year old eyes are far better aided by good fit than technology. The Ruger will remain the longer shot PG choice.

Just speculating now....
I see a couple things here. 1) Perfect fit gets the sights on target fast, whatever the sights. 2) You hit faster with sights that you are accustomed to.

I have more experience with fast shots from pistols, than rifles, but I think the same concepts apply. With practice, you can get the sights on target without looking at the sights - as long as the fit of the gun is right. People transitioning from iron sights to a red dot often have difficulties with what to look at. With iron sights, you need to focus on the front sight - more or less. With a dot, you should see the target and let the dot appear on it. If you have to follow the dot and move it onto the target, you are losing time.

Do you remember any details of what went on when trying to get the fast hits with the dot?

 

[Ed Lally]

Red dot sights specify the size of the dot as 1 MOA, 3.25 MOA, etc., But it would seem to me that the size of the dot in MOA, since it is projected on a glass in the device, not into the target, would be a function of the distance the glass screen is from the shooters eye. In the case of a red dot mounted on a handgun this distance could be close to 2 feet. In the case of the RMR on the Blaser S2 above, this distance would be measured in inches. Am I missing something or should the distance between the shooter's eye and the red dot sight be taken into consideration when choosing a red dot sight?

 

[DWB]

@ Kevin Peacocke

In all honesty I don't think you should compare a Telescope with a dot with a dedicated Red Dot (i.e. parallax free Aimpoint Micro) your experience might have differed substantially. But nothing feels as fine as a rifle with decent iron sights

 

[BeeMaa]

Red dot sights specify the size of the dot as 1 MOA, 3.25 MOA, etc., But it would seem to me that the size of the dot in MOA, since it is projected on a glass in the device, not into the target, would be a function of the distance the glass screen is from the shooters eye. In the case of a red dot mounted on a handgun this distance could be close to 2 feet. In the case of the RMR on the Blaser S2 above, this distance would be measured in inches. Am I missing something or should the distance between the shooter's eye and the red dot sight be taken into consideration when choosing a red dot sight?

The distance between the dot and your eye will account for very little change in dot size.
What matters is the distance from you to the target and how that changes.
1 MOA dot at 50 yards will cover 1/2", at 100 yards 1" and at 200 yards 2".

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

My Verney Carron 375 Flanged Magnum is an over/under ‘light double’, 7.65 pounds, and apart from the fit it is all of 106cm long. Apart from my original thread topic above of red dot sights the other takeaway from this range day was that two very experienced PH’s were also there with a Rigby 500 NE double. I fired it static and the recoil compared to my Verney was stout as expected, my head movement about 200mm or so from the video, whereas with the Verney It was about 50mm. Anyway their hit radius with the 500 on the charging lion was far larger than i expected and in fact the one chap had his glasses knocked off on the first shot and missed the outer circle altogether on the second. So again fit and ease of handling put us novices ahead - my son in law is brand new and got two in the black. A small isolated example I know, but certainly fuels the debate of precision vs power on stopping shots. For me, i would stick with my little magic wand every time.

 

[Hallgeir Gravråk]

This is my option on my Krieghoff Classic double in 470 NE.
It`s a Aimpoint Micro, it`s fast, and accurate, and most of all it`s stabile.
Shoot very good groupings.
One matter I agree in is the Trijicon sight are slimmer and therefor more fittet in a doublerifle.