Members input to design a Dangerous Game Range - group project

[perttime]

Here, just about every range has a "running moose" range. The sledge is on rails and it is electrically powered:

Some places have rigged charging bear targets on a cable, or on rails.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Yes sure.....

Together with Mauritz Coetzee I was one of the first members who helped with this at BASA.....I had many issues regarding calibers as well as the scoring system they used....

Yes it is so that lets say 500 Jeff will be able to stop an elephant better than a 375 H&H......

However if one gets to tied up in scoring systems and then try to unfairly even the playing field you start losing the plot....
Forcing participants to have to reload for instance by limiting the shooter to two cartridges in the mag, because the double rifle guy's have to reload is wrong. If you want to use a double that is your choice, if you want to use a bolt that only takes two in the mag that is also your choice, if somebody uses a bolt with 6 in the mag so be it....

If I want to use my 500 Jeff for the elephant and buffalo charge and lion charge range I should be able to do so, If I want to use my 12ga Poor mans double loaded with Brenneke slugs for the leopard charge range then I should be able to do so. If I want to use my 375 H&H for the hippo and croc in the water I should be able to do so. The scoring system should also allow for that.

Range and targets should be set up to accommodate kill shots and clearly indicate them as they happen....static video cam can be used to confirm that. A brained elephant is dead with that shot not the two or three that follow......

As an example lets say on the leopard charge range, I use my two pipes which is the one I would use for follow up in the field on a actual leopard. First shot is a kill shot after 1.6 seconds, second kill shot(not needed) as well at 2 seconds....Now another shooter uses a bolt, first shot is 0.9 seconds hits the target but misses the brain and neck/spine, second kill shot is 1.6 seconds kill shot and he manages another kill shot 2.7 seconds....who should get the best score from that.....

Too much emphases on speed rather than accuracy can be a disaster to drill into somebody and they do the same in the field. Never ever sacrifice accuracy for speed..

I would much rather have somebody hold their ground and place 1 accurate killing shot than start banging away to see who can place the most shots somewhere on target in the shortest time.

The biggest problem by inexperienced hunters is to start shooting too quickly in a charge situation and the biggest issue with these types of shoots are too much emphasis on speed rather than accuracy......

Ranges should be built to represent actual in field scenarios.....not easy but should not be over complicated....

IvW, with this remark I as a novice shooting dangerous game rifles knows I am in the company of an excellent PH /dangerous game hunter, a man who knows what is important on a plains game hunt as well as a dangerous game hunt....I totally agree with you ...there are two aspects I noticed at BASA set up that I will try and do differently at the plains game and dangerous game shooting range ( see the two ranges as one) I will change :
Recorded -Time to shoot at the target: not measured by a stop-watch.... the speed the target of a charging lion/buffalo approach will determine the time limit....(same with buffalo like the SAAMI set up..)
All calibers /all type of shooters/hunters can participate...there are no ratios /penalising of any kind in regards to caliber rifle use as you pointed out in your much appreciated input and every member `s input so far To me , a person who enjoys a sport to participate in , is a person learning the tricks of the trade faster ....
IvW, I think we can take a lot from the SAAMI set up..interesting the set -up in the kano in the Zimbabwe test is really interesting concept...

Two of the re-enactments shooting ranges will be the Hippo and crocodile figures to shoot at from inside a blind to where they are drifting in the stream..
Our main challenge being not to make use of the tyres ,but trying to build the range as with natural environment material on site available and still adhere to safety regulations ..
Please keep the discussion and possible suggestions coming , it is much , much appreciated ..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Pertime, thank you very much, your input is much, much appreciated,,,I really like the set up of the targets and movements of the targets,,it really is how it happens in nature..my whole concept I want to base on real events happening in a hunting environment

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

Good day to all forum members...I believe you are all well and save as is your families in this challenging time. As the heading indicates, I would like if any member who always wanted /do hunt dangerous game animals give their practical suggestion of how he /she would design the following features:
1) Mechanical winches to pull a sledge with dangerous game target on it, mechanical or by hand.
2) Mountainsides : gravity feed sliding targets to be winched back after item completed /score taken
3) Use of recycle -able material important feature
4) Safety dedicated outlay
5) This shooting range will cover the following dangerous game animals :
Hippo in a stream
Crocodile in a stream
Elephant life size targets stationary : frontal view/side view /rear view de-camping
Buffalo/charging
Lion charging
Leopard

Most of this range surface has a mountain as a back stop, I really would like not to include used tyres at all..
Reason being : veld fires, rubber pollution, unsightly in a nature environment, you do not hunt in Mozambique , Zimbabwe of anywhere in Africa surrounded with tyres...

The range should be a circle outlay...start at clubhouse, commence with all the ranges to minimise congestion , end at club house after person completed all six courses...
If possible please include photos possible examples of items /set up of targets ect../ videos of similar set ups you have participated in previously....
Thank you in advance ...

Gert, I think it is very important to not only have buffalos charging (the PH will assist in avoiding trouble) but also side on moving target at typical departing buffalo speed for guys to learn to put a second or third shot into the departing animal rather than admiring their first shot PH normally does not partake in this). It could be the difference between a lost trophy or not

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Gert, I think it is very important to not only have buffalos charging (the PH will assist in avoiding trouble) but also side on moving target at typical departing buffalo speed for guys to learn to put a second or third shot into the departing animal rather than admiring their first shot PH
normally does not partake in this). It could be the difference between a lost trophy or not

Uwe, I agree, like the elephant hunting targets indicating a frontal brain shot, side brain , lung/hart as well as a departing shot to the hip bones and back bone

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

Uwe, I agree, like the elephant hunting targets indicating a frontal brain shot, side brain , lung/hart as well as a departing shot to the hip bones and back bone

Maybe the first shot should trigger the departing target, so that people are trained to reload immediately and be ready for a followup shot

 

[IvW]

IvW, with this remark I as a novice shooting dangerous game rifles knows I am in the company of an excellent PH /dangerous game hunter, a man who knows what is important on a plains game hunt as well as a dangerous game hunt....I totally agree with you ...there are two aspects I noticed at BASA set up that I will try and do differently at the plains game and dangerous game shooting range ( see the two ranges as one) I will change :
Recorded -Time to shoot at the target: not measured by a stop-watch.... the speed the target of a charging lion/buffalo approach will determine the time limit....(same with buffalo like the SAAMI set up..)
All calibers /all type of shooters/hunters can participate...there are no ratios /penalising of any kind in regards to caliber rifle use as you pointed out in your much appreciated input and every member `s input so far To me , a person who enjoys a sport to participate in , is a person learning the tricks of the trade faster ....
IvW, I think we can take a lot from the SAAMI set up..interesting the set -up in the kano in the Zimbabwe test is really interesting concept...

Two of the re-enactments shooting ranges will be the Hippo and crocodile figures to shoot at from inside a blind to where they are drifting in the stream..
Our main challenge being not to make use of the tyres ,but trying to build the range as with natural environment material on site available and still adhere to safety regulations ..
Please keep the discussion and possible suggestions coming , it is much , much appreciated ..

The canoe scenario was designed specifically for field guides taking groups down the Zambezi in Zim where you often encounter hippo and large crocs. This allows them to be tested for that. Big difference is the canoe is not flat on the ground but moving around in the water. Trust me been there done that.....

Maybe a pop up pool on a sand area would be good to have it more realistic......

Hunting crocs and hippo is vastly different from defending a a group during a foot or canoe safari....

 

[Philip Glass]

I think most people’s movers are home made as anything I find commercially for sale online is very expensive. Here is a mover robot that could be an option:

https://www.range-systems.com/product/motoshot-moving-target/

regards,
Philip

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I think most people’s movers are home made as anything I find commercially for sale online is very expensive. Here is a mover robot that could be an option:
Philip, yes it looks like a good base to work on..the advantage we have at this area where I want to construct the shooting range has a mountain for the back ground , it means I can design these moving targets to work on a gravity feed /winch system..the examples from members with moving target ideas is great...IvW , the hippo /croc range can be set up in the stream of water flowing past this area ..there are always water in this brooke /stream , when raining season it even rushes along this area..so we rally would be able to set up a great hippo water shot as well as a stationary crocodile neck/body shot and a floating crock brain shot...all this from a grass/ tree branch hut build from the material on site...thank you again members, it is much appreciated...IvW so we are agreed on the time limit system not going to work in this scenario???We still have to work out how to make the count /total of shots compatible with the event .
https://www.range-systems.com/product/motoshot-moving-target/

regards,
Philip

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Philip, yes it looks like a good base to work on..the advantage we have at this area where I want to construct the shooting range has a mountain for the back ground , it means I can design these moving targets to work on a gravity feed /winch system..the examples from members with moving target ideas is great...IvW , the hippo /croc range can be set up in the stream of water flowing past this area ..there are always water in this brooke /stream , when raining season it even rushes along this area..so we rally would be able to set up a great hippo water shot as well as a stationary crocodile neck/body shot and a floating crock brain shot...all this from a grass/ tree branch hut build from the material on site...thank you again members, it is much appreciated...IvW so we are agreed on the time limit system not going to work in this scenario???We still have to work out how to make the count /total of shots compatible with the event....Participants, any rifle all count the same weight of points???

 

[Gert Odendaal]

IvW the use of the cano on this stream will really be great to use as mock-up crocodile/hippo attack as well...one blind set up and one cano set up...

 

[IvW]

Philip, yes it looks like a good base to work on..the advantage we have at this area where I want to construct the shooting range has a mountain for the back ground , it means I can design these moving targets to work on a gravity feed /winch system..the examples from members with moving target ideas is great...IvW , the hippo /croc range can be set up in the stream of water flowing past this area ..there are always water in this brooke /stream , when raining season it even rushes along this area..so we rally would be able to set up a great hippo water shot as well as a stationary crocodile neck/body shot and a floating crock brain shot...all this from a grass/ tree branch hut build from the material on site...thank you again members, it is much appreciated...IvW so we are agreed on the time limit system not going to work in this scenario???We still have to work out how to make the count /total of shots compatible with the event....Participants, any rifle all count the same weight of points???

Yes I believe way to much credit is placed on speed to the detriment of accuracy.

I think best is to group calibers together and to use appropriate and minimum calibers for the different animal targets.

For young kids even a 22 should be permitted.

Tony Sanchez groups rifles in the following categories..

A) Small calibers: between .240 and .280
B) Medium calibers: between .300 and .375
C) Big medium calibers: between .400 and .440
D) Big calibers: between .450 and .600 (the .700 calibers didn’t exist then).

I would say below .366 PG

.366 to .416 Medium
.417 to .499 Big bore
.500 to .700 Super bore(Shotgun on leopard only slugs no buck shot)

First shot stationary, which initiates the charge. 10 points for a brain or spine shot, -5 for any shot that misses the brain or spine, anybody with a miss cannot beat anybody with 2 hits, the objective should be to make the shots count and not see how many times you can hit the target. Targets marked with brain and spine on the back for scoring purpose.

Bore sizes are just to make up different groups so you have placings for each group.....and then of course scores for each target.

Something to that effect.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Good, members here is an example of what I want to use on the hippo hunt range .shooting from a prone position at the hippo floating around in the riverlet ( spruit /small river ) along the edges of the dangerous game shooting range we are discussing /planning...I now need a full body crocodile as well as a floating head crocodile

 

[SRvet]

There is a slick moving target system called a Blinktroll that runs on a cable. I’m not sure how fast the target needs to move to simulate a charge but it looks a good system

https://blinktroll.com/

 

[Gert Odendaal]

SRvet, thank you kindly for this great info..this really looks like a great working concept, will do some more research on it..

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Good, members here is an example of what I want to use on the hippo hunt range .shooting from a prone position at the hippo floating around in the riverlet ( spruit /small river ) along the edges of the dangerous game shooting range we are discussing /planning...I now need a full body crocodile as well as a floating head crocodile
View attachment 347868 View attachment 347869 View attachment 347870

How do you know where you hit that? I mean after the 20th shooter.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I attended a bear safety course here in Alaska. They created a mobile charging bear target that was pulled by a rope on a spool. They had set up the spool so that a large drill could attach to it. It wasn't completely realistic but it helped.
I never used it but the Fish and Game department was training their staff with a bear target on oval wheels. So when it moved it wobbled and simulated a bear bouncing up and down as it ran.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

How do you know where you hit that? I mean after the 20th shooter.

Bert, the shooter will have a PH along side him/her to see where the floating hippo/crock head is hit.....five point for a hit, zero for a miss

 

[Forrest Halley]

Movers are expensive. Think about clothesline wire and screw hooks for a weighted wooden frame. Remember the more expensive the item, the more likely that it will get shot up. These people aren't shooting .22's.
People are going to game the stages. It will happen. The guy with the 6 shot .375 is going to do really well based on lack of reloads alone. You can slow him down by penalizing his misses higher, but unless you force each competitor to reload at some point during a string of fire, you won't take away his advantage. The double shooters have too much money tied up in the guns to really shoot them fast and run them hard.
You can also build wooden framed disappearing targets using a weight(bowling balls work well) that pushes the target frame up by leverage and then falls off and the target frame weight causes it to fall back down. These can be activated by pull ropes at the start signal or upon the shooter reaching a point on a trail.