Mark Sullivan shows us how to handle a Double Rifle

Well said Cal. Facts are a great leveler, and to hold to a negative opinion of someone despite the clear exculpatory evidence is bad character in of itself.
 
Time passes and I forget. My article is posted on page 6 of this thread. It's late but I re read this thread and it's amazing how so many look at a film and believe that is how the man is. Tim Roth is a fine actor. The part he played in Rob Roy showed an absolute shit. It's not him, it is the part he played. So it is with Mark. If only you could see the Mark I know. When hunting birds he is the first to quip about how the quail makes the choice how it is to die. He listens to novice hunters with interest and respect. When he and I hunted I used my .600 and I commented on his .577 as a lady's rifle. He laughed and said it was. his mother's. Some of you guys need to lighten up.

The article is here. I will try to post the review of each of his first ten films. And, one last comment on Mark and his character. Notice he never publically attacks those who attack him? He is above that and is a gentleman.
 
Here are Mark's first 10 films. The table of each shot didn't copy. I will work on that.

Introduction.

First of all, please excuse the delay in my posting. I had the information in hand but my knee prevents me from sitting for any great length of time at a computer table. It needs to be elevated and iced and I don’t type well in a prone position.


Second, I would ask all involved here keep comments to the topic of this thread, to the facts (let’s stay away from “I heard...” or “somebody said...”) and all in a gentlemanly manner. I know we will disagree on many things but let’s be men of honor.


Third, is there is a lot of data to tabulate in my state of pain meds and throbbing knee. If I write Mark fired four times and you watch the video and see five shots, accept I made an error in viewing or recording the data, not lying to support Mark. I also ask forgiveness for any typos in advance.


Let me inject something here so you all will know where I stand. I’m not much of a hunter. Africa interests me with its hunting but I rarely hunted in my 30 years here in Alaska. My love is pre W.W.II English double rifles. I like larger calibers. I don’t read hunting or firearms magazines except the African Hunter, don’t watch or buy hunting videos, and don’t buy contemporary books on hunting experiences of others. Except for the charge in the first video I was not too impressed as they seemed like all others I have seen. And, if Mark did not change his style and methods I believe he would have blended in with the thousands of PHs that were plying their trade in Africa. One does not have to look far in the entertainment industry to see how folks develop a style for attention. As not everyone can sing like Frank Sinatra, write like Bob Dylan, or have the charisma of the (early) Beatles so they must do something to bring them to the spotlight. Mark has successfully done this. Some may not like it (that is obvious from the posts on AR when his name comes up) but his name brings out emotion like no other in the business. The reason I wrote of my interests is there is something that has drawn me to Mark’s films.


As to the videos. The first ten of Mark’s films I viewed. I did not watch the “best of” films as it would have been repetitious and I don’t have his last film (although it is on the way). The films are:


1. 1990 Africa’s Black Death

2. 1992 Simba

3. 1992 Mbogo

4. 1995 Sudden Death

5. 1996 Death on the Run

6. 1998 Shot to Death

7. 2000 Death at My Feet

8. 2004 In the Face of Death

9. 2005 Death by the Ton

10.2006 Death Rush


A very important note: the 2004 film, In the Face of Death, is a documentary and not a hunting film with clients, although clients are shown. This is Mark’s “This is what I do and why” film and is not included in the tabulations to follow. When I refer to films I will number them in order 1-10 and then the number of the hunt so you can reference it quickly if you wish. In other words 6-4 would mean film 6, 4th hunt. Remember there will be no reference to film 8.




AFRICA’S BLACK DEATH 1990

Seeing it many times but now with an analytical viewpoint here is my take on the hunt. A disabled hunter shoots his buff (11th and last hunt) several times with Mark encouraging the shots. After the buff falls Mark walks to the downed animal and the hunter is driven over. Mark approached from the back of the buff when the buff lifts his head turns to see Mark, gets up and begins a charge. It took two shots to kill the buffalo. My take is Mark was going to check to see if the animal was dead. If he was not and the distance was greater I believe Mark would have had the client shoot. I believe Mark was surprised and did not expect the events to unfold as they did. The first shot was low, between the eyes, and the second shot was higher and was the brain shot that was fatal. A couple of things happened here. First I (and most of you) have read the literature for over 100 years where the hunter states the brain shot was best performed by aiming at the nose or between the eyes. Mark proved them incorrect and showed that in film. I remember lots of banter over this and many current writers then stuck with the nose or between the eyes story. The second event was the turning point in Mark’s career.


I remember well a fellow teacher coming to me in the hall at school stating he saw the most unbelievable buffalo charge. The owner of a local gun shop was playing it all day on constant loop. Not the video, just the charge, and it was the talk of the hunters here in Anchorage. As any business man knows, one has to set himself (or his product) ahead of the competition for recognition. This charge got so much attention that I would bet this first video of Mark’s outsold his next two, Mbogo and Simba, by a large margin. He was on to something. 30 shots by clients, 7 shots by Mark.



SIMBA 1992

Four great lion hunts. No charges. Great big game footage. What has set this film apart is it (as all of Mark’s films, show no plains game. Just the big stuff. 10 shots by clients, none by Mark.



MBOGO 1992

Eight buffalo hunts. One charge on hunt 5. Client wounds the buff and it runs off into grass that must be 8-10 feet high and very thick. The group enters the grass in a truck and the buff charges immediately. Mark and client shoot together with Mark’s first shot in the eye that stops the buff. 27 shots by clients, 10 shots by Mark.



Commentary of the first three films. These are definitely set apart from the films that follow and are more like the traditional African hunting videos we have all seen for years. First, is a professional narrator. Second is the footage is like most videos where the hunter shoots (and sometimes many times there after) and the PH rarely shoots his rifle. Setting things apart are that in Mark’s early years he shot very nice rifles!. As mentioned there is not much to set things apart from the standard of the day except for the buffalo charge in his first film and, of course, all dangerous game, no plains game. The next group of four film will show a development of Mark’s style has it has become known to all.



SUDDEN DEATH 1995

Three years passed since the filming of the previous two videos. The changes here were very positive. First by using himself as the story teller it brings a much more personal way to show the hunting adventures. Now, too, is Mark asking the client, “Tell me about the shot...” and the client’s perspective is of added importance. The only part of any of Mark’s films I would take issue with is the walk up to a spined buff, hunt 6, (initial shot was off camera) and spending a minute or two talking about the number and size of buffalo running away. Now, since the buff were in the area I would guess the initial shot happened a very short time ago but I would have liked to have seen the buff dispatched sooner and the discussion come after. The end of the film, hunt 8, showed a charge which happened shortly after the first shots and mark, his son, Shawn, and two hunters all emptied their doubles into the buffalo. (As an interesting side note, Shawn was using a Lang .450 no2 which is nearly identical to my Lang, same caliber, and only 40 serial numbers apart). Shots from clients 16, shots by Mark 5, shots by others 6.



DEATH ON THE RUN 1996

This always has been my favorite even though many good films followed. Great animals and great rifles I guess is the reason. Two great charges and absolutely unprovoked. Yes, Mark shot but only after the client shot and failed to stop the animal. On the hippo charge, hunt 2, Mark and his client came to a hippo getting out of the water. The hippo went straight into the brush and Mark and the client turned to their right to go to the bush also. The hippo saw them and began an instant and unprovoked charge. The client’s first shot failed to put the animal down and Mark brained it with a calm and cool single shot. The hippo fell instantly and the client put in his second shot. For the buffalo charge, hunt 10, Mark and the client walked through some open land to some brush where a wounded buff was waiting. As they came around to the left the buff charged instantly and totally unprovoked. The client’s shot missed as dust can be seen at the left of the screen and the buff came on to Mark. With his .600 the first shot was low but stunned the buff and when he dropped his head Mark put a second shot down through the top of the boss. In these two charges it is important to note the charges were unprovoked, one wounded and one not, and in both instances the client had the opportunity to stop the animal. Only when they failed to do so, did Mark finish the job. Shots by clients 17, shots by Mark 3.



SHOT TO DEATH 1998

11 animals killed, no charges. This is film number 6 and it hit me what I think the majority of the reason for the statements the Mark shoots the client’s animals. While watching the 18 minute preview I noticed Mark shooting several buffalo. Lots of gun shots, lots of action, lots of animals, lots of rifles and lots of Africa. However, many of the quick scenes of Mark shooting were not in the body of the film. For 10 animals shot by clients (remember Mark shot one buff on his own--hunt 11) Mark only shot his beautiful rifle twice. He shot many more times than that in the exciting preview but they were not hunts featured in the film. This may lead to the comments as stated. Especially so with the folks who state they watched a few minutes and turned off the film. Shots from clients 21, shots by Mark 2 (plus another 3 at his own buff).


DEATH AT MY FEET 2000

I can see why many viewing this film could jump to conclusions that are not 100% accurate. In the first hippo kill the client makes a great shot as it moves out of the water. It gets up and stands there, no charge, and Mark brains it with the .600. Why? I’d have to ask Mark and that is the proper way to go about things (and I will). Mark did not need to shoot and he and the client have a history of friendship and hunting. Just an agreement? Let’s ask first.

The next hunt was a buff and the client shot six times and Mark three when the bull was running away. I have seen videos where the PH will put in a shot or two when the critter is running just to put extra holes in the animal to slow it down. Next buff, the client shot six times, and it is easy to see a few misses. Upon followup the bull, which ran each prior followup now charges instantly; Mark shot twice and killed it in full charge. The client ran out of ammo. This was proper for any PH. Elephant next. The client shoots when the elephant turns away. It was an ass shot or a miss and some dust on a far grassy area pops up and there was no evidence the elephant being hit. As the bull turns to the left Mark kills it with one shot. Like the first hippo, I would be interested in asking “why” as there was not danger and the client could have kept on shooting. Next buff, client shot twice and the buff ran off and Mark took a shot. Buff found dead. Next buff dropped with one shot from the client. Hippo next and what I would call an unprovoked charge the hippo ran out of the water. Mark told the client to shoot and they both shot at the same time. Mark’s shot in the proper place, the client’s too high. While many feel this type of hunting is wrong, or state so to attack Mark’s actions, it is far more exciting than to kill it (assassinate it as Mark puts it) from the bank as the hippo peacefully rests in the water. If the client relied on just his own shot, he would have died. Two hunters shot a buff on a 2x1 and Mark did not shoot. Last was interesting buff charge. Client shoots 3 and Mark twice. Follow up and instant charge. Both shoot together, client’s shot too high and grazes the boss, Mark with brain shot. Proper PH job and the client shot his last shot. (Why did the client only have four cartridges with him?) Shots from clients 25, shots by Mark 12.


So, Mark did a lot of shooting in this film. Two kills (hippo [hunt 1] and elephant [hunt 4]) did not seem to be needed but Mark needs to be asked the details before speculation. Charges were not staged and happened quickly and any PH would do what Mark did. One may state why get close enough for a charge to happen and I would say it is up to the PH and client at the moment of the confrontation: thick bush, poor shooting by client, excitement.


Mark also blows sunshine up some of the client’s backsides by complimenting on the quality of their shooting when the film show some poor shots and complete misses. I guess all PHs do that is it would not be good business practice to say, “Your shots really sucked on this critter, bub.”



IN THE FACE OF DEATH 2004

This film in not a hunting film. Rather it is 90 minutes of Mark explaining his style and philosophy as well as his opinion on the solids vs, softs debate and the double vs. bolt debate. As to the questions of charges Mark admits if a PH wants to avoid a charge he will never have a charge in 30 years. He would prefer not to do so. And, while Mark states he has always relished the joy and excitement of a close up hunt and/or charge, there is no doubt his filming charges have increased as have his years of experience. And, he mentions clients who ask to be part of a charge. The particular client mentioned in this film shot and missed the charge and if Mark had made any errors the result would have been fatal. This video also tells of the proper placement for a brain shot on both hippo and buffalo and the myths of such shots such as buffalo charge with their head up so a brain shot must be in the nose or that a hippo charges with its mouth open. He also mentions shooting animals at a distance is assassination and not true hunting. There is no doubt truth to this. When I see hunting on television and killing shots of several hundred yards it is great shooting but not real hunting. Also, in all his films Mark never waits at a water hole behind a hide for the clients to shoot. All of his hunting is fair chase, no fences, and on foot. With all the guaranteed hunts out there, shooting from vehicles and at night with spotlights, and shooting endless impala and other plains game it is a nice break to watch someone hunt the way most of us (at least the older generation) learned hunting to be.


In this film I saw confidence, not condescending attitude, facts not fiction, and the narration by a man who has climbed to the top of his profession by both hard work but also by charting a route to follow that had not been done prior. The increase of charges show me a PH who is looking at the best way to market hunts as well as DVDs--and the market wants it and is willing to buy it. If this was not true the law of the marketplace would work in the opposite direction and what Mark sells would not be bought. I do wish, however, that Mark’s detractors would watch this film to get an explanation of why Mark does what he does. I know that would not change the minds to those who just want to hate but I would bet if Mark said what he says on the film to a detractor in person in their living room the statements would take a different tone. It is easy to criticize when one is an armchair quarterback, a PH who wishes he had Mark’s following, clientele, rifles, and income, or from the anonymous status of the internet where one can spew what he wants without having to show his face or let his name be known. I doubt Mark would continue his success if he gave up what he does now and went to shooting plains game and an occasional buffalo. But that’s just my opinion.



DEATH BY THE TON 2005

It has been five years since Mark put out a hunting film and a lot has changed over the years. Mark continues to use fine rifles and is very positive with his clients--even when they screw up on camera (one gent keeps pulling the front trigger on his borrowed double [hunt 4] and a second makes the final walk up with an empty chamber [hunt 6]). Mark does more shooting here than in the past by far and there was only one charge, a hippo (hunt 8), that was properly brained by the client. Mark shot when the hippo hit the ground but it was not needed. What I noticed in the first 7 animals is Mark picks out the animal that is to be shot, encourages the client to shoot, and only shoots as the animal is running away. Unless clients surface and state they asked Mark not to shoot and he did there is probably an agreement between client and PH. I know on many of my hunts my PH asked me if he should shoot if the animal turns and runs. I would bet Mark offers the same courtesy to his clients. Shots from clients 19, shots by Mark 14.


Other changes I notice were an absence of leopard and lion hunts which were very common in Mark’s past films, although only one elephant so far and that the quality of the client’s rifles is improving. Some really nice doubles and bolt rifles here.


So, Mark is shooting more, always after the client shoots (not one exception) and the walk ups find the animal dead most of the time, and only one charge.



DEATH RUSH 2006

This is the last film I have of Marks except for the “Best of” DVDs. This continues to the same format as the previous film. Marks shoots a lot in this one, too. In all cases the client shoots first and Mark puts in shots as the buff is running away. In the hippo charges (hunts 1-4-9) he shoots with the client. Buff charge when wounded and hippo are never wounded when they charge. In the opening hippo scene a huge bull is looking at Mark and the client behind some brush. It will be a long wait so Mark kicks some dirt in the air to stimulate the hippo. When he moves it will be a charge or to run away. He charges and the kill is very exciting. But in all the hippo charges in Mark’s films this is the only time Mark took action to provoke the charge. And, he kicks a bit of dirt--he didn’t wound it! The two buffalo charges (hunts 6 and 8) the initial shot was not on camera (6) and the second the client shoots first and Mark second. Shots from clients 28, shots by Mark 19.



Personal observations:

I like what Mark does even more and now the air is cleared of emotion and only the facts are there. To put it in one word--this is Excitement and hunting at its best. Yes, other PHs produce hunt films. They have good dangerous game or big game footage. One difference lies is that the big stuff in spaced between countless impala and other plains game. I don’t mean to offend as we all have our likes and dislikes about hunting, but I get tired of seeing kudu shot at 250 yards with a synthetic scoped magnum with a fluted barrel and a muzzle brake or warthog killed at a water hole. That is part of this entire game, I know, but Mark’s videos are set apart in that he only hunts dangerous game. He does it where there are no fences, on foot, with open sighted vintage double rifles (that many would regulate to the gun safe to avoid them getting dirty) and does not shoot from vehicles or at a water hole blind. To me, those are really good attributes for any hunter--PH or client.


As to why the negative comments toward Mark? One will never know or tabulate as emotion runs high by anyone who is fanatical on an issue. There is now no doubt that Mark’s exploits have been blown way out of proportion. It is like the dirty politics in US elections from the local to state to national level. Actions or words are taken out of context and magnified to make a point. Such as the “stupid habit” of Mark’s kicking dirt in hippo’s faces to provoke a charge. Stupid is an opinion and while that can be disagreed with it can’t be argued. Habit is something that happens over time, often, and this only happened once in the 2006 video. The hippo could have been shot as it peeked out from behind some brush. Mark chose to make it charge and it was damn exciting. It was not unethical--the animal was not wounded nor hurt in any way. And, it was going to die--either in an exciting manner or a rather dull one.


Many of the negative comments come from arm chair hunters with a mentality of joining the antis to keep up with the Jones’. Much comes from fellow PHs and I would guess a good bit of it is jealousy. Look at the facts. Why would a PH state garbage as Mark asks clients to wound, or a .22 is used to shoot the buff in the balls, to invoke a charge? And, it is always, “I heard this was done”--never once, “I saw it done.” The facts are that Mark is perhaps the best known name in the hunting business, hunts with the finest rifles, makes a damn good income, hunts in the finest safari lands in Africa, and has an endless supply of clients. What PH would not want to be in the same boat? However, with all the hype, if another PH begins to do what Mark does he will be chastised publicly and humiliated for copying Mark. So, Mark stands alone much like the solitary bulls he so ethically hunts. He stated his case once and never attacked his attackers. That showed the quality of character this man has.


After all the verbal diarrhea I hope the facts are now clear. I don’t expect any of the attackers or haters to change their opinion but at least we can say now the total number of charges filmed in 16 years is only 14. The total times Mark killed the animal rather than the client is 2, and the number of unprovoked hippo charges was 5 of 6, and the number of buff charges is a total of 8.


In closing, I would like to say a “thank you” to all who read and comment and I hope all will remain the gentlemen we were raised to be. As I write this Mark’s last film came in the mail and I watched it with interest. Mark stated that while he looks for charges only 5% of his buffalo actually do charge when wounded. The other 95% run away. For the 16 years covered by the 9 films I watched that would explain why only 8 charges in 16 years. That is one charge every two years!


As to Mark shooting at his client’s animals--I just also watched Boddington on Buffalo. This was the first film I have seen of Craig’s. At the end he states he would not have his ego get in the way and have the PH put in some shots to get the animal down more quickly. So, if Craig says this, why is Mark criticized for doing the same?


As for me, my knee is on the mend it was an interesting venture to do this. I think it would be fun to watch and compare Craig and Ivan’s films to see how they are alike and different. It would be fun to watch Saeed’s films to compare with Marks.


That’s all, gents. It’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Let the games begin................*
 
Here is the table:

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Which is more ethical, shooting a buffalo then taking 30+ minutes for it to "stiffen up" and then approaching and finishing it off or going after it right away to finish it off? In regards to an animal suffering I'd submit the former method causes more animal suffering.

Isn’t the client’s job when hunting any game to deliver an accurate, ethical shot at the outset? And where DG (and some PG) is concerned, to (after the first shot) fire however many times he has to to get the animal down (in a controlled and accurate manner as possible in an extremely fluid situation). Now when and if they do make it to the thick stuff it would not seem to prudent to charge in after it (after all a humans life is worth more than an animals at the end of the day). It’s already DG hunting, no need to take any more unnecessary risk. I didn’t say anything about letting an animal “stiffen up”. Besides, letting the animal “stiffen up” isn’t the goal of giving the animal some time in my opinion. I know the goal of giving a non-dangerous game animal (in Africa or otherwise) some time is to allow it to succumb to its wound(s) and/or calm down some and gain a sense of false security (so you can dispatch it as quick as humanly and humanely possible when presented a shot) so you hopefully don’t jump it and then have to track it all over God’s creation thus causing even more suffering or losing the animal entirely. I would say the goal is the same for DG with the added intention of mitigating risk of what have you. Obviously you would prefer an immediate kill but in actuality we all know that’s not always the case especially given the rigor of some DG species. I should mention I am a novice who hasn’t even been to Africa yet so I’m sure I’ll be corrected on most of this.

Main difference in the two methods is that Mark's is there for the world to see in videos which obviously brings up negative feelings in some and probably not the best public relations for the non-hunting public. To those I'd say suck it up, the anti-hunters are not going to care how you hunt as long as you hunt.

I agree that the antis are going to hate us regardless. However our foremost concern ought to be the furthering of the sport for the sake of management, conservation, etc. MS has done more harm than good in this area in my opinion, which is what everything I’ve said to this point has been. Sorry about my grammar. I enjoy reading your posts/comments and I hope you get that awesome B&M rifle sold.
 
I’m sorry I made a mistake on the last post. The entire run-on paragraph in the middle is mine not Tanks’s.
 
I’m sorry I made a mistake on the last post. The entire run-on paragraph in the middle is mine not Tanks’s.

:LOL::LOL::LOL: I was wondering about that as I did not remember writing it, plus I like to make paragraphs short. ;)

There were a few posts I would have responded to, but I think @cal pappas covered it all. Like him, I had problems reconciling the comments people were making with the actual videos themselves. It is amazing that people would say they quit watching the videos after a few minutes and then go ahead and make all sorts of comments about the videos and Mark S.
 
I certainly don't need someone telling me what I should be seeing or should be hearing when it comes to MS. I couldn't care less whether or not MS shoots a bubba'd rusty pea shooter or a big expensive British double. Very sad hunters have to share the same sport with the likes.
 
:LOL::LOL::LOL: I was wondering about that as I did not remember writing it, plus I like to make paragraphs short. ;)

There were a few posts I would have responded to, but I think @cal pappas covered it all. Like him, I had problems reconciling the comments people were making with the actual videos themselves. It is amazing that people would say they quit watching the videos after a few minutes and then go ahead and make all sorts of comments about the videos and Mark S.

He showed enough arrogance in the first 4 minutes, l didn't care what the rest of the video was about or what he had to say.
 
I get it, he's a contentious person and somewhat sensational as a reality hunting TV star typically is. (although he sells videos, not TV airtime)

I refer back to the bigger problem because we are talking about what we see. What we see in an individual segment could happen to any PH or client, it is neither moral or amoral as an individual clip. You cannot see a video and know the state of mind of people on film or their moral decision making in the heat of the moment in a single clip.

So we have to go back to not assigning morality to what we see, but starting with what the people in the video say they believe.

I take Mark Sullivan at face value by judging him by what he says he believes, rather than assuming he is being untruthful in his accounts. His belief system coupled with the video clip defines what he is thinking, what he is doing, and why he is doing it. That's the problem. I don't think Mark Sullivan is deeply considering the ethics of his words and just how problematic they truly are.

I summarized these problems in my review of one of his videos, the excerpt I'll paste here for clarity:

-Mark Sullivan believes in some of the charter of animal rights and is actually much closer aligned to the value system of ALF, PETA and HSUS than he would be to many conservation organizations. I realize that sounds inflammatory but that is why I had to deconstruct what he says and does to figure out what is going on in his head. Mr. Sullivan continually emphasizes that an animal “must decide how he will die” so he is implying a number of things it seems he truly believes.

A.) Primarily, he believes that the animal is endowed with a free will and sentience to elect for a particular course of decisions on how its life will end. I would say that many people would say that there is an evolutionary “fight or flight” innate response in an animal so the animal is not “deciding” or “contemplating” death at all but rather is trying to determine if escape is possible until it feels so pressured that it must attack. Mr. Sullivan is endowing the animal with a specific right which many scientists would say is not understood by the animal that is actually just acting to stimulus in a predictable manner. In short, Mr. Sullivan believes that an animal should be given choice and has a right to make choices about its life and death to paraphrase his frequent comments.

B.) Secondarily, Mr. Sullivan believes that animals are so deserving of this particular suite of rights, the right to self determination of one’s death, that he does not believe in killing the animal without putting himself and his client in a hazardous situation at point blank range of a charge. This is an important point because to some, they would say that Mr. Sullivan has elevated the worth of the animal to that of a human, or has lowered the value of a human to that of an animal in this “life bargain” he describes frequently. In essence, it would not be moral in his worldview to kill the animal if the animal did not have the opportunity to attempt to kill him and his client. The aforementioned philosophy was exemplified as he passed on a charging hippo on land at 20' only to allow the animal to die in water in a more impressive charge. This would be a reasonably similar point of similarity between Mr. Sullivan and HSUS as it comes to animals rights and worth in that he endows the animal with these rights, but he robs of them of these rights using his own self-made moral compass by killing the same animal a few moments later because death in H2O is more moral to him than death on terra firma. This set of unusual moral principles could be viewed as inconsistent.

C.) Mr. Sullivan believes that humane dispatch of animals to end suffering is not the primary impetus for the hunter’s action or inaction on a hunt for a wounded animal. Many hunters believe once an animal is wounded that the absolute primary driver is to locate and humanely kill that animal expeditiously. Such a notion or worldview would be consistent with a Judeo-Christian-Muslim orthodox worldview that suggests man is superior to animals and that humanity that elevates humans should be focused on respect for animals as lower life forms. (only humans as predators possess an innate desire to prevent undue suffering to animals…animals don’t really care in such a manner) In short, Mr. Sullivan’s esteem and value that he places on an animal's right to choose its death is placed on a higher echelon than the human’s obligation to expeditiously end an animal’s suffering. This particular behavior from Mr. Sullivan opens up a pandora’s box of potential questions that could be the subject of a scholarly paper of its own.

D.) Mr. Sullivan’s desire for an animal to die in a charge also suggests he believes that the animal’s right to charge outweighs his client’s right to hunt and harvest their own animals. Because of the frequent intercession by Mr. Sullivan on the hunts providing the killing shot its clear that either he really wants to hunt for himself, or that he desires to induce a charge more than he wants to afford his clients the ability to take the first and the final shot on an animal. Some may find this curious.

.....I think the idiosyncrasies of Mr. Sullivan and his inconsistent views of man and animal’s worth coalesce to make him a larger than life character perceived as a loose cannon with an illogical mind. It makes great reality television. On the other hand, it creates in the minds of some, a troubling hypocrisy as he claims to instill rights in dangerous game animals (right to self determination in death) that he does not instill in them moments earlier (right to self determination to live). It actually seems like he wishes to instill only as many rights in the animal as a cat instills in a mouse caught under paw; the personal pleasure of the dominate party must continue until the dominant party is bored with the situation. (whether housecat or Mr. Sullivan) He claims to want to give the animal equal footing to create an ultimate sense of “fairness” but carries such formidable weaponry (.577NE and .600NE) that it isn’t fair, he is going to obliterate the animal as was seen when he blew the jaw off a cape buffalo at 8’ that was standing in suffering ready to be dispatched calmly at 30’ until incited to charge. Many hunters would have preferred the animal be humanely dispatched with haste so as to keep the human beings in a position of safety and to reduce the animal's suffering but with Mr. Sullivan's hunt in the video neither of those two moral concerns were held to a higher value than getting the wounded buffalo to perform aggressively. I personally did not see the animal being given the choice "of how to die" that Mr. Sullivan speaks of so frequently, I saw a forced stimulus being thrust upon an animal that resulted in an instinctive response to charge as there were no other options remaining.
 
Probably not the most popular opinion...

But I liket thevideo's of Mark. Today I received 12 of the, the whole collection, of dvd's he offers on his website. Saw 2 films before that and enjoyed them. Also mailing with him was a pleasure he is quite the gentleman.

I would compare him more to a matador, who is honoring the animal by giving it a change to live. That does not mean I condone intentionally wounding the animal. But when it is wounded he is willing to wait for the charge than a quick follow up shot. Therefore giving the animal the chance to take the hunter out.

It seems a romantic idea to me. But hey that is coming from me, a guy who is according to my wife not romantic at all:LOL:;)
 
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Attempting to pull a similar stunt with 1 of these brutes ... could lead to fatal consequences for EVERY member of the shikar party.
 
Terms I am sick of hearing: Mark Sullivan. Far too much self imposed importance and too much hypocrisy.
 
Is it true that during the prime of Sullivan's popularity, he was always booked 3-4 years in advance?
 
Brent: Yes, he was. He had a waiting list of both new and waiting clients that many in the industry were very jealous or envious of. It's is interesting that the folks who are negative and those who never met the man in person an base there opinions on what they heard. (I'm still waiting for one gent here to provide the several countries that he heard Mark was kicked out of on both sides of the pond). And, those that have hunted with him have glowing reports.
 
Brent: Yes, he was. He had a waiting list of both new and waiting clients that many in the industry were very jealous or envious of. It's is interesting that the folks who are negative and those who never met the man in person an base there opinions on what they heard. (I'm still waiting for one gent here to provide the several countries that he heard Mark was kicked out of on both sides of the pond). And, those that have hunted with him have glowing reports.

I never said he was kicked out of countries, I said he was run out of SCI and DSC shows from what I heard regarding the conventions. (I think he was banned from SCI?) I never said he wasn't selling lots of hunts, nor that he wasn't a "nice guy", nor that he doesn't have many friends.

What I do conclude is that his own words point to the fact that he has highly problematic ethics and it is damaging to sportsman's image because I believe his conduct is immoral in light of his intent as he states it.
 
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Rookhawk: It was not you I was referring to. Ray, about 2/3 down on page 7 made the statement "kicked out of several countries for on both sides of the pond." We can agree or disagree but one thing that can't be argued is Mark's name is kept to the front year after year after year. Those in my chrcle who don't know hunting in Africa know the name.
 
What's the tl;dr on why Mark Sullivan is such a controversial man in the safari business.

This doesn't have to do with that but to me, his moustache screams to me "80's porn star."
 
What's the tl;dr on why Mark Sullivan is such a controversial man in the safari business.

This doesn't have to do with that but to me, his moustache screams to me "80's porn star."

Okay, I have to be honest: I think the Magnum PI mustache is pretty cool. Of that, I'm jealous.
 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
Flathead lake, road to the sun and hiking in Glacier NP
and back to SLC (via Ogden and Logan)
Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
a hot springs (do you have good spots ?)
Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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