Making My Way To BARNES

[stug]

This guy has some good advice on how to shoot a 416 Rigby

 

[BRICKBURN]

Don't step on the rock. Got it.
Good advice not to shoot it like a shotgun.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I have started the procurement in earnest to get ready for the arrival of my newest toy.

Some factory ammunition is in stock in some stores. Some even loaded with BARNES TSX.

SAKO $90.00 for 10 rounds
Hornady DGS $106.00 20 rounds
Federal Fusion $330.00 20 rounds

Reloading is on the menu for sure.

1. I already have a selection of powder and primers from previous efforts. Thankfully.
   
2. I bought a box BARNES Solids in 350 grain just to see what a solid will do. There is a published recipe for them on the BARNES website.
3. I tracked down a set of RCBS dies in 416 Rigby. Another lesson, I found during this search is all manufacturers do not make all calibers of dies. I also found out some other very good news, that the threads are universal across manufacturers.
4. There are several manufacturers of components. Many components have been dipped in an Au (79) bath in order to facilitate the stratospheric number behind the $ signed on the packages. One of the suppliers wants $69.00 for twenty un-primed brass. I will find some that do not require a bank loan.

Wow, are these cartridges big. The grouse do not stand a chance.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have started the procurement in earnest to get ready for the arrival of my newest toy.

Some factory ammunition is in stock in some stores. Some even loaded with BARNES TSX.

SAKO $90.00 for 10 rounds
Hornady DGS $106.00 20 rounds
Federal Fusion $330.00 20 rounds

Reloading is on the menu for sure.

1. I already have a selection of powder and primers from previous efforts. Thankfully.
   
2. I bought a box BARNES Solids in 350 grain just to see what a solid will do. There is a published recipe for them on the BARNES website.
3. I tracked down a set of RCBS dies in 416 Rigby. Another lesson, I found during this search is all manufacturers do not make all calibers of dies. I also found out some other very good news, that the threads are universal across manufacturers.
4. There are several manufacturers of components. Many components have been dipped in an Au (79) bath in order to facilitate the stratospheric number behind the $ signed on the packages. One of the suppliers wants $69.00 for twenty un-primed brass. I will find some that do not require a bank loan.

Wow, are these cartridges big. The grouse do not stand a chance.

If you shout into brass, you'll get an echo!

 

[BRICKBURN]

If you shout into brass, you'll get an echo!

You may also get lost if you turn the wrong way!

 

[Pheroze]

When you hold the case up to your ear do you hear Africa?

 

[BRICKBURN]

When you hold the case up to your ear do you hear Africa?

I'll tell you when I get my hands on an empty.

I can assure you that holding the weight of one of those loaded cartridges in your mitts sure screams Africa.
There is nothing around here that requires the medicine I am sure this little gift can deliver.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Found this fella that seems to think Maximum pressures suggested for the 416 Rigby were created back in the day when Cordite was the norm. He theorized that the "extra volume" and the modern propellents would be able to manage a higher working pressure.

I am not the wizard of reloading, nor do I have every reloading manual every printed.

Is this guy nuts?

 

[Ridgewalker]

Hmmm? Do you really need more than what the historically proven 416 Rigby pressures accomplished? JMO, but as the saying goes, "why fix it if its working?"

 

[BRICKBURN]

At this point I have not done anything and certainly have no clue at present if anything needs to be fixed. Just wondering if this guy was working up a new big bore plains game rifle with his recipes - +/- 400 yards

Personally, I will be sticking with the tried and true, but just wondered if there was anything to this.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

At this point I have not done anything and certainly have no clue at present if anything needs to be fixed. Just wondering if this guy was working up a new big bore plains game rifle with his recipes - +/- 400 yards

Personally, I will be sticking with the tried and true, but just wondered if there was anything to this.

I don't think he's crazy at all from my limited time with the big .416. The CZ I had loved H4831 with 400gr pills and this is what I'd start with Wayne. I didn't have a chronograph then, but I think I was underestimating the MV significantly. See here:

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/400gr-north-fork-softs-416-rigby-h4831sc.7332/#post-241763

 

[Shootist43]

I have been mulling over this post for several days and delayed writing it hoping someone would answer my question but alas, no such luck. On another AH thread 8 x 68 has expressed a total aversion to the use of Barnes bullets. On this thread Barnes are the preferred bullets. My question is; did Barnes change something in their metallurgy and or manufacturing process to correct a previous short-coming? Or is this just a matter of preference for one bullet manufacturer over another?

 

[BRICKBURN]

I have been mulling over this post for several days and delayed writing it hoping someone would answer my question but alas, no such luck. On another AH thread 8 x 68 has expressed a total aversion to the use of Barnes bullets. On this thread Barnes are the preferred bullets. My question is; did Barnes change something in their metallurgy and or manufacturing process to correct a previous short-coming? Or is this just a matter of preference for one bullet manufacturer over another?

The preference question is easy to answer. It is certainly my preference for the reasons noted earlier. I have not presented an exhaustive scientific research project comparing all available projectiles here. One of these days perhaps, but currently that was all about bullet performance in my rifles.

You just nudged a brain cell with the metallurgy question. I recall a passing comment about the source of the metal for their bullets that was made during my visit to the plant in Utah. Imagine the polite smile on their faces, as they immediately knew I was "not from around here", when I asked the question and they just pointed across the valley. It is no mistake that the BARNES plant is located where it is. If you stand in their parking lot and look west you can see one of the largest Copper mines in the USA that is the source for their metal.

I have zero doubt that the level of purity in the manufacture of the source copper has changed over the last thirty or more years. I say that because I remember the discussions and concerns about copper fouling and barrel wear that arose when the monolithics first arrived on the scene. They have also done away with some products:
The old "blue coated" BARNES were a barrel fouler for sure and they are long dead; MRX bullets are no longer made and possibly others I don't know about.

One thing you can see when reading about BARNES history, is that they are willing to change almost anything to gain performance.

When I looked on BARNES website I found they have answered some of the persistent questions in FAQ section.

The FAQ section on the website:

Why did you change the ogive design of my favorite bullet? What is its ballistic coefficient now?

We are constantly striving to make better bullets at Barnes. We have made a few give changes to some of our TSX Bullets. Check the Barnes Reloading Manual #4 or the Barnes website for current B.C. value

Can I expect copper fouling when using TSX Bullets?

Because of mutiple grooves machined into the shanks of Triple-Shock bullets, less bullet area comes in contact with the bore. This reduces pressures and virtually eliminates copper fouling.

Will your TSX Bullets foul my barrel quicker than the other bullets I’ve been using?

When shot according to our recommendations, Triple-Shock X Bullets virtually eliminate copper fouling.

Is it true TSX Bullets will wear out my barrel more quickly than jacketed bullets will?

As long as you clean your barrel frequently, there is no way TSX bullets will wear out your barrel any faster than other bullets. We have fired thousands of Triple-Shock X Bullets through our barrels without seeing any unusual wear.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I don't think he's crazy at all from my limited time with the big .416. The CZ I had loved H4831 with 400gr pills and this is what I'd start with Wayne. I didn't have a chronograph then, but I think I was underestimating the MV significantly. See here:

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/400gr-north-fork-softs-416-rigby-h4831sc.7332/#post-241763

Thanks Phil. I will start with the 350's, as that is what is available here.

 

[JimP]

Not to correct you on the copper mine near the Barnes shop but it is north west of their shop in Mona and I doubt that you can see the mine from their location unless you hiked quite a ways up onto the hill behind them.

But back to the loads. While I haven't done any research on the 416 but with modern rifles and modern steel being used it is quite possible that his loads are safe in "modern rifles." There are quite a few reloading manuals that will give you one load for a pre xxxx year and another one for a particular rifle in that caliber. The Ruger #1 rifle is one example. It has been offered in a lot of different chamberings over the years and a lot of obsolete ones at that. Now the reloading manual will have a load for the Ruger #1 that can sustain higher pressures and a load for the older rifle that shoots the same cartridge with lower pressures..

 

[BRICKBURN]

Not to correct you on the copper mine near the Barnes shop but it is north west of their shop in Mona and I doubt that you can see the mine from their location unless you hiked quite a ways up onto the hill behind them.
.............

It's ok, I was speaking metaphorically for humours sake, since it is a twelve hour drive. For me, it was right across the valley. You don't have a hope of seeing the actual mine site from the parking lot.
They were smirking at me, since I had no clue about the copper mine and it was more than likely a tax break or cheaper land that determined the exact location. I never asked.
The mine is actually 80KM nearly dead north of the factory.
For smiles and chuckles sake here is what Google Earth marked it as.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...........
But back to the loads. While I haven't done any research on the 416 but with modern rifles and modern steel being used it is quite possible that his loads are safe in "modern rifles." There are quite a few reloading manuals that will give you one load for a pre xxxx year and another one for a particular rifle in that caliber. The Ruger #1 rifle is one example. It has been offered in a lot of different chamberings over the years and a lot of obsolete ones at that. Now the reloading manual will have a load for the Ruger #1 that can sustain higher pressures and a load for the older rifle that shoots the same cartridge with lower pressures..

Thanks for that information and clarification.
I will be working up a load for the NEW CZ 550 Safari Magnum.

 

[stug]

400gr at 2200fps will kill it, 400gr at 2400fps will also kill it. The buffalo won't know the difference, your shoulder will though. Your shoulder will appreciate the 350gr even more. There is a big difference in my 404 Jeffery between 400gr and 350gr.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks for that reply.
I want to know of the 350 will fly a little flatter with a couple more grains without beating me to a pulp.
This is going to be my new deer rifle!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Thanks for that reply.
I want to know of the 350 will fly a little flatter with a couple more grains without beating me to a pulp.
This is going to be my new deer rifle!

That 350gr I bet you could get 2800fps out of. But that'll be a wallop on the shoulder. 2700fps and I can't imagine there's much it wouldn't put a big hurt on.