Low recoil red deer and wild boar cartridge

[shootist~]

@shootist~ it seems to me, that Chuck Hawks formula gives too much edge to larger calibers - comparing 30-06 and 8x57IS (which is very popular here in central Europe): given the same weight of bullet and energy - 8x57 seems better option - but in my mind the "slimmer" 30-06 would have a better penetration
Anyway it is very interesting list - of the "sub .30" calibers the 6.5s seem to be the right choice.
[/USER]

Looking at available 8x57 "Mauser" reloading data, the 30-06 has the advantage, mostly because the starting velocity of the 30-06 is significantly higher. Weight for weight, the 30-06 will also have a slight advantage in Sectional Density (SD), which is part of the Chuck Hawks calculations. (Hatcher used something similar to SD in his work, btw.)

The larger diameter of the 8x57 @ .323 Vs .308 for the '06 results in a 9.99% increase in Bullet Frontal Surface Area, however which is also significant (IMO).

Dr Kevin Roberts in his excellent The Perfect Shot II discusses the importance of bullet diameter in at least two chapters. He notes in Chapter 2 as an example that: "Doubling the caliber = an increase of 4 times the front surface area." IIRC he also notes somewhere that the permanent wound channel will be approximately 3 times the expanded diameter of a bullet. Fatter (and heavier) bullets just kill better when larger game (especially dangerous) is the target.

How to apply that to a 300+ pound wild boar while keeping recoil down might be more difficult, but clearly the 6.5s have a huge advantage over the 6mms. The 7mms and up appear to gain - possibly at a slightly more moderate (yet significant) pace. My 2 cents anyway.

Dr Robinson also discusses the Taylor KO values as well as Hatchers "relative stopping power" (Chapter 4). Taylor uses a bullet's diameter in the math where Hatcher and also Hawks both use the Frontal Surface Area in their calculations.

I'm guessing the 8x57 "IS" allows for a bit more chamber pressure and velocity over the older 8mm Mauser data. I ran the K data math using the Lapua 8x57-IS Naturalis 180 grain - and using the same velocity for a 30-06 180 A-Frame - and got essentially equal numbers.

 

[Rell]

Why not get a set of longer 24-26 inch barrels made for your current O/U to add weight? 7x57R or 7x65R, maybe even the 30/30 …. Chapuis makes a SxS in 30/30?

 

[SaintPanzer]

Your options are many. Your restrictions are a little lighter than in Germany, where you would need minimum of 6.5mm and an E100 of 2,000 Joules. The rules are similar in Poland.

To put it in non-metric terms (so everyone else can follow along) you are only looking at a little over 1100 foot-pounds of energy 110 yards out. Lots of things meet this standard.

Also, let's all remember (I teach this in my class ad nauseam) 6.5mm translates to .264. In the UK, they call that .256, but they also drive on the left there, and both are a subject of another rant. But a .243 just won't do.

Let's start with the Mannlicher 6.5X54. The 160 grain bullet will give you an E100 of about 1975 Joules. Because of it's higher muzzle velocity and spitzer bullet, a 140 grain bullet gives you an E100 of about 2020 Joules. You will probably have to take up reloading. You're not shooting at 500m, so don't worry about ballistic coefficient. Go for a high sectional density.

I have seen nice M1903s on egun.de go for less than 1,000 euro. I just bought a not so nice one for 200 euro. They are out there. Now that you've told me 1500J, I will have to take that to Czech Republic. May be time for a mouflon hunt.

You may also find one made after 1951 in 6.5X57. Also in 7X57 and 7X64. What can I say? I'm a sucker for a rotary magazine.

Staying with 6.5mm, the 6.5X55 Swede would also work well.

Then we have the 7mms. 7X57, 7X64, even 7mm-08. All well above 2,000 Joules.

As noted above, a suppressor will limit recoil more, as will a mercury recoil reducer. You say you don't mind a heavy rifle... and a scope always adds half a kilo or so. You have more options than you realize.

One help, once you find a rifle you like, it's fairly easy to find an online ballistic calculator that allows you to enter bullet info, muzzle velocity, etc. and get your E100 rating.

Oh, and a .30-30 lever action may raise some eyebrows at the driven hunt, but when they see it in action, it will really make them stretch their eyes! It would be just about perfect for it!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

If using a bolt action I could see the 358 win or 338 federal working well.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Oh, and a .30-30 lever action may raise some eyebrows at the driven hunt, but when they see it in action, it will really make them stretch their eyes! It would be just about perfect for it!

Don't forget a tan galan hat and a pair of these!

Tan galan!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

"Also, I certainly wouldn't want to show up at a Continental driven hunt with a 30-30 Winchester - poor form and all that."
Really?
I would like to show up with my lever action .405 WCF (I do not have a 30-30, but the .405 makes big holes in warthogs and blows off the off side legs of feral boars .) . Also good for Nilgai, water buff, and cape buff.

But you are right, I would not fit in with that crowd.

@crs
It doesn't matter If'n y'all don't fit in with the crowd. Once the game starts falling they will be wanting to know what you are using. You never know someone may get what you have and become the new talking point.
Different is good that part of life

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It sounds like you need a Blaser R8 in 7x64, heck I could use a a Blaser R8 in 7x64.

@Art Lambart II
What about an R8 in 35 Whelen.
Has dad made you up some of those 2,700fps 250gr loads yet
Ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If using a bolt action I could see the 358 win or 338 federal working well.

@Wyatt Smith
Are you starting to see the light young grasshopper.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Alistair,
In Texas, most feral hog shooting is pest control and sport. Often they are just shot in a trap and dumped for the buzzards and other carrion eaters.

Sometimes we run them with dogs. This is for sport or to collect trophies. I like the hunt with dogs, but never keep the trophies.
I sometimes shoot eating size pigs for meat. This one was 600 pounds and not the best choice for dinner.
View attachment 461960

@crs
Mightn't be the best for dinner but man you would end up with a couple of good slabs of bacon.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

If using a bolt action I could see the 358 win or 338 federal working well.

I could see my and your .338 Win Mag working even better! No chasing of wounded animals? LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

Don't forget a tan galan hat and a pair of these!
View attachment 462236



View attachment 462248
Tan galan!

Is that Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen on his "hunting" vehicle wearing his pearl handled .45 Colt? Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Pavel U
I sent you a PM with my email address. I first tried to attach my Excel spreadsheet showing my detailed Chuck Hawks "K" (Killing) Factor spreadsheet - but apparently AH will not allow such attachments.

Here is a link to the original Chuck Hawks article:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

Note that my 243 is a Sako 18.5" carbine, so my chronographed velocity (and resulting K factor) will be less than a more traditional hunting rifle. (K = 16 Vs about 18 per Mr. Hawks).

For a couple of calibers, (280AI and 30-06), my spreadsheet shows Foot Pounds and K factors out to 325 Yards (Column O) for various loads. Allowing for a muzzle brake or suppressor, the 280 Remington or 280 AI would appear to be a good choice for low recoil without sacrificing too much at your desired 300 Meters.

To calculate recoil, the JBM calculator works very well, of course it does not allow for the use of a brake or suppressor. From my experience, muzzle brakes work best with lighter faster bullets. With a good (but very loud) 3 port brake reducing felt recoil by as much as 40% or so.

A single port brake such as the Ruger (standard on the RPR) might still get you a 30% reduction. My guess since I have that brake on a 308 practice (hunting weight) rifle.

You can play with the weight of the rifle in JBM to see what that does to the free recoil. Take your 9.3x62 and then compare it to a 10 Pound 6.5, 7mm, or 308. (My 6.5 CM with 26" Remage Light Varmint barrel weights 13 pounds, btw. My 2.5x10-42 NF scoped Tikka T3X is about 8.5.)

Shoot me an email or PM if you want me to check any of your figures. I'm a recoil sissy currently recovering (very nicely) from open heart surgery, so I feel your pain.

JBM - Calculations - Recoil

www.jbmballistics.com

@shootist~
The radial port brake on my Whelen tames it right down even with my full power loads. I'm able to shoot it despite shoulder surgery not working as it should have

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Is that Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen on his "hunting" vehicle wearing his pearl handled .45 Colt? Ha! Ha! Ha!

@CoElkHunter.
No I can't ride a bike that well. He looks like he has a ten gallon hat on a 5 gallon head.
Australians wears AKUBRAS not Stetson

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I could see my and your .338 Win Mag working even better! No chasing of wounded animals? LOL

Not quite low recoil. That thing needs a decelerator.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Is that Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen on his "hunting" vehicle wearing his pearl handled .45 Colt? Ha! Ha! Ha!

It's actually Tom Mix on a Henderson Four but could be Bob 'in spirit'.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Good morning gentlemen,
What a wonderful world we live in!
...According to the doctor, one should be extremely careful - apparently avoiding any impact or big concussions - damn, I can't even rub my eyes! So I guess shooting dozens of 9.3s from my 7 pounds O/U is something to be avoided This is not easy for me, since I am firm believer of Use enough gun approach.

I presume one of these would be out of the question?
It could be shot from the hip without jostling the ol' peepers.

Would 'full auto' be considered bad form?:

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It's actually Tom Mix on a Henderson Four but could be Bob 'in spirit'.

@Brian Rothhammer
I doubt it mate I'm a left hander so the holster is on the wrong side and I wouldn't have the barrel poking out the bottom of the holster.
My spirit still belongs in a 600hp W model Kenworth with 3 trailers doing 80s miles an hour, not some 2 wheel death trap. Ah the joys and memories of old truckers.
Bob

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

@Brian Rothhammer

My spirit still belongs in a 600hp W model Kenworth with 3 trailers doing 80s miles an hour, not some 2 wheel death trap. Ah the joys and memories of old truckers.
Bob

Road trains, eh?

 

[CoElkHunter]

Not quite low recoil. That thing needs a decelerator.

I missed the low recoil part of the title. Yes, the recoil is “snappy”. Nevermind. Maybe a .25-20 then?

 

[Opposite Pole]

Hey mate, for moderate recoil and reasonable efficiency a non-magnum 7 to 8mm works well on boar and red deer. Among other guns I use 308Win and 8x57JRS for these animals and both do what they are supposed to. I have not noticed any difference in hunting performance between these two. 8x57JRS is a surprisingly soft shooting cartridge, I use it in a lightweight single-shot rifle and it is a pleasure to shoot.