Looking for a new SXS. What's available?

[Ltach578]

28s are cute, fun and all that, but a tiny sxs can be mighty difficult to shoot well in addition to ammo being expensive and not always available. I would recommend a 20 gauge as it will be a little bigger, more shootable and you will have a much larger selection to choose from. An Iside is an excellent choice.

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

If it MUST be a 20 or 28 bore, you have a few options...

1. Increase your budget and stay with a British boxlock SxS to have good quality piece at a reasonable price.
2. Keep your budget and get a good quality modern O/U. Not top quality, but good. Browning 725, Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon I.
3. Maybe something like this...GB Aya Deluxe 20 Bore

What should the budget be for a used british boxlock sxs and which specific makers were you thinking of?

 

[steve white]

Skydiver, if you can believe it, there are men in south Texas brush country who use 410's with nickel plated shot for quail. Ranges are super close and the slick shot goes on through the bird. A lot depends on what you are expecting to encounter. I would probably go with the 20.

 

[Nevada Mike]

What should the budget be for a used british boxlock sxs and which specific makers were you thinking of?

Good question. First judge the gun, not the maker. Most Brit makers offered boxlock guns sourced from Birmingham makers (finished or in the white) with their name and address on them. They were offered for commercial sale by dozens of Birmingham makers and ranged from 'Best' guns to utilitarian 'Keeper's Guns'. Indeed, many London makers best guns were, in fact, made by Birmingham makers like Leonard, Ford, A A Brown, or others. So judge the gun, not the name on the rib.

As for price, it depends on the gun, but you will pay a premium for a subgauge gun, with 28s being even more, dur to demand and rarity. a very good 20 gauge, lightweight boxlock 20 gauge can be bought for as little as $2500. Dealers in the USA will charge more for such a gun than dealers in the UK, often substantially more.I buy them in the UK and have them imported by an import service. This will cost an aditional $800+, depending the the sale value (which effects import duties, and the whim of the importer.

You will find many of these guns for sale on a website 'guntrader' dot UK. lots of drool material there. Of course, you are buying without being able to actually view and handle these guns, so you need to go throug a reputable UK dealer. Very difficult (impossible?) to return such a gun if it doesn't suit you.

I have purchased four or five shotguns this way and have never been disappointed. All but one have been 16 or 20 bore guns and ranged in price from $2250 to $2500 for boxlocks and $6000 to $12,000 for London sidelocks.

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

Good question. First judge the gun, not the maker. Most Brit makers offered boxlock guns sourced from Birmingham makers (finished or in the white) with their name and address on them. They were offered for commercial sale by dozens of Birmingham makers and ranged from 'Best' guns to utilitarian 'Keeper's Guns'. Indeed, many London makers best guns were, in fact, made by Birmingham makers like Leonard, Ford, A A Brown, or others. So judge the gun, not the name on the rib.

As for price, it depends on the gun, but you will pay a premium for a subgauge gun, with 28s being even more, dur to demand and rarity. a very good 20 gauge, lightweight boxlock 20 gauge can be bought for as little as $2500. Dealers in the USA will charge more for such a gun than dealers in the UK, often substantially more.I buy them in the UK and have them imported by an import service. This will cost an aditional $800+, depending the the sale value (which effects import duties, and the whim of the importer.

You will find many of these guns for sale on a website 'guntrader' dot UK. lots of drool material there. Of course, you are buying without being able to actually view and handle these guns, so you need to go throug a reputable UK dealer. Very difficult (impossible?) to return such a gun if it doesn't suit you.

I have purchased four or five shotguns this way and have never been disappointed. All but one have been 16 or 20 bore guns and ranged in price from $2250 to $2500 for boxlocks and $6000 to $12,000 for London sidelocks.

...and THIS is why this website is so valuable, helpful and addictive. Thank you sir. Wonderful explanation on a topic I am not that facile with.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

New to you or a new, currently produced double?

Current production, F.A.I.R. Iside. You won’t do better in the under $2500 category.

I have a FAIR Iside EM in 12g and it’s a wonderful shotgun.

The EM grade comes standard with a single trigger but I was able to order one with double triggers.

 

[rookhawk]

What should the budget be for a used british boxlock sxs and which specific makers were you thinking of?

$2500 gets you an amazing 12 bore british boxlock. $12,500 gets you a very mediocre 28 bore or .410 that is structurally and cosmetically inferior to the 12 bore example. Same gun as a 16 bore, $4000, same gun as a 20 bore, $6000+.

94%-96% of British shotguns ever made were 12 bore. Due to their super abundance, its why you can spend a mere $2500 used on something that would cost you $60,000 to have bespoke made for you new today.

 

[coreydb]

Recommend going on Gunsinternational.com to get knowledgeable on the different manufacturers, availability and market prices and go from there. The majority of sellers are in the US and it's just a matter of shipping to the FFL of your choice. You'll find many names you won't recognize, but are well known with high quality across the SxS world.

 

[rookhawk]

Recommend going on Gunsinternational.com to get knowledgeable on the different manufacturers, availability and market prices and go from there. The majority of sellers are in the US and it's just a matter of shipping to the FFL of your choice. You'll find many names you won't recognize, but are well known with high quality across the SxS world.

Brands are largely irrelevant with British guns. People that do not appreciate this overpay for lower quality guns. Example: A gun that says "Holland & Holland" on it might be one of the lowest grades of mass produced guns from Webley & Scott since H&H didn't even have a gunmaking workshop until 1898. On the other hand, Army Navy Cooperative Society Limited guns have little name appeal and sell quite cheap, even though the particular gun might be best quality and having been manufactured by Westley Richards.

With British guns, you never buy the name, you buy the particular gun. Chasing brand names in most circumstances is a bad plan that may have no relation to who actually created the firearm.

 

[BeeMaa]

What should the budget be for a used british boxlock sxs and which specific makers were you thinking of?

Listen to @Nevada Mike and @rookhawk as my level of experience in this area is not nearly what theirs is. Good luck out there.

 

[coreydb]

Brands are largely irrelevant with British guns. People that do not appreciate this overpay for lower quality guns. Example: A gun that says "Holland & Holland" on it might be one of the lowest grades of mass produced guns from Webley & Scott since H&H didn't even have a gunmaking workshop until 1898. On the other hand, Army Navy Cooperative Society Limited guns have little name appeal and sell quite cheap, even though the particular gun might be best quality and having been manufactured by Westley Richards.

With British guns, you never buy the name, you buy the particular gun. Chasing brand names in most circumstances is a bad plan that may have no relation to who actually created the firearm.

 

[coreydb]

Yep.....Rook hawk is spot on.....hence part of the research process. There are many quality gunmakers past and present, but all of the historically quality built gun manufacturers had unfortunate hiccups one time or another. Even the top three "Best Quality" only manufacturers (Purdey, Boss, H&H) experienced hardships that cost them in quality or production.

 

[rookhawk]

Yep.....Rook hawk is spot on.....hence part of the research process. There are many quality gunmakers past and present, but all of the historically quality built gun manufacturers had unfortunate hiccups one time or another. Even the top three "Best Quality" only manufacturers (Purdey, Boss, H&H) experienced hardships that cost them in quality or production.

In other cases, the retailer never made a gun to begin with anyway. People obsess over Jeffery firearms yet he never made one to my knowledge. He was an inventor of cartridges and ordered up his firearms from the trade to sell to his clientele.

A London address on the rib was considered posh and sold for more money than if the gun had a Birmingham address on the rib, regardless of the fact that we're talking about two identically made, sequentially serial numbered guns.

The savvy gun sellers would order their guns without proof marks from Birmingham so that the London proof marks would be applied to corroborate with their London address on the rib. Brand recognition has always meant something to consumers.

The finest hammergun I've ever owned wasn't my Boss, it was a William Richards of Liverpool 16 bore that had zero name recognition to it, it was simply a best grade gun in every respect. Really nice guns can be found for a bargain if you're buying what they truly are rather than what they masquerade at being on the address line.

 

[ChooChoo404]

1. Spain
2. Spain
3. España

After that it’s just details. The hard part may be finding the open chokes you want for upland. Subgauges are hot at the moment so for that kinda scratch you may have to stick to 12ga. Or maybe the little-loved redheaded stepchild the 16. Great gauge, crap ammo selection. Look for one of the defunct major makers like Sarasqueta.

 

[Atticus]

One of the things I enjoy most about shopping for a new gun, is the research along the way. If you go the British route I’d recommend getting a few of the many good books out there on the trade. Highly suggest Tate’s “Birmingham Gunmakers”, Haddoke’s “the British Boxlock”, several of McIntosh’s books and Wieland’s book on vintage British guns. If there is a shop in your area with some, go put your hands on them and ask questions. Pay particular attention to the barrels.

And reread the post by @Nevada Mike and @rookhawk . Lots of experience there.

 

[Doubleplay]

Some Turkish doubles like the ones made by Huglu has come a long way. Their upscale models are as good as and even better than some of the mediocre Italian models.
All the CZ doubles along with the Dıckinson’s are made in Turkey.

 

[rookhawk]

One of the things I enjoy most about shopping for a new gun, is the research along the way. If you go the British route I’d recommend getting a few of the many good books out there on the trade. Highly suggest Tate’s “Birmingham Gunmakers”, Haddoke’s “the British Boxlock”, several of McIntosh’s books and Wieland’s book on vintage British guns. If there is a shop in your area with some, go put your hands on them and ask questions. Pay particular attention to the barrels.

And reread the post by @Nevada Mike and @rookhawk . Lots of experience there.

Double kudos for anything written by Doggory Hadoke. He’s a very savvy younger author that knows a diamond in the rough. Buy all his books. Listen to his advice in print. He’s now affiliated with Rigby which is well deserved.

 

[Sika98k]

I believe that Diggory Haddoke also offers an appraisal service. If you spot a shotgun, or rifle, in the U.K. auctions he will give it the once over for you.
Personally, my 2C, I’d recommend an English SxS. Very few faults occur with them. I have owned a good few over the years and have enjoyed each and every one of them. WW Greener 12 gauge N/E, Webley&Scott 12 gauge, several. A top lever spring went in one. Easily solved by cutting down an AYA spring to fit.
The ejector timing on my current one got screwed up on the right hand barrel. Loose screw tightened up. WR Pape 12 gauge hammer gun, no faults. Webley&Scott 16 gauge, 26” barrels. It was great for woodcock and snipe. I gave up on hunting those creatures, soft in my old age.
Currently I shoot a C. G. Bonehill 16 gauge for the last 17 years. It was built in the 1930’s. I probably shoot 4-500 cartridges through it every winter. Never missed a beat. I use a Webley&Scott 12 during the summer on wood pigeon. Probably 1500-2000 cartridges a year with it.
The only shotgun I couldn’t get rid of quick enough was a Woodward side lock ejector. It was gifted to me. It had a push forward underlever and it completely broke your rhythm of reloading if you were in a hotspot. The previous owner had a neck like a giraffe and his knuckles dragged off the ground ! This is virtually what the gunsmith said to me when I called to see about getting it fitted for me.

 

[Whit]

If secondhand is not an issue, then I’d highly recommend a British made Webley & Scott Model 700. I wrote an article about them last year.

Thread 'The Last Of The English Side By Sides'

Jul 26, 2024

Today, an English made side by side shotgun is invariably a bespoke sidelock affair, commissioned from one of the heritage British gun houses (James Purdey, Westley Richards, Holland & Holland, Watson Brothers, John Rigby, Joseph Lang, E.J Churchill, John Dickson, A.A Brown, William Moore or Charles Lancaster) and they‘ll set you back a pretty penny. But such was not always the case.

At one time, there was a wide variety of commercially manufactured English side by sides that could easily be found on the gun racks/ gun cabinets of any self respecting gun shop in Great Britain (or any of...

• Hunter-Habib
• Replies: 38
• Forum: Articles

• 
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Amongst newly manufactured side by side shotguns, you might want to give Huglu a try. They’re Turkish, but quality is better than most other Turkish shotguns. Here’s their 28 gauge Model.

200 A MINI ENGLISH TYPE - Huglu

We as Huglu Hunting Firearms Cooperative manufacture shotgun and air rifle by using high technology and craftmanship for the customers looking for quality, durability and performance together on a product.

www.huglu.com.tr

Heck, I have one of the Webley and Scott branded Holland & Holland vintage English Boxlock shotguns I’ll sell you…. And at a very fair price…

 

[BonUm16]

I have a FAIR Iside EM in 12g and it’s a wonderful shotgun.

The EM grade comes standard with a single trigger but I was able to order one with double triggers.

My 20ga is an EM as well. It’s one of the earlier ones to hit the U.S. market and came with double triggers and a 15”+ LOP. Perfect T-shirt lop for me but a touch long with a sweatshirt or jacket.