Live Animal Relocation to USA

[ActionBob]

They only need 3 things to be abundant: moisture, friable soil, and warmth. Any place where the soil stays frozen down to depth of a few inches for at least a few weeks each year is too cold.

About the only ag benefit to them is sugar cane - they seem to enjoy feeding on cane borers. They also have a pretty healthy appetite for ticks.

So that's why we have no ticks here!

 

[ActionBob]

Large-scale, monoculture farming is another contributing factor, or so it is believed.

And the reason food supplies are basically still plentiful and affordable. But yea taking out fence rows was never my favorite thing to see happening.

 

[lwaters]

Probably the corn price. Corn was in the $4 range for brief period prior to the Carter Soviet grain embargo. Then it lingered around $2 for a long time. Some weather related bumps then hit $8 i believe in 2008 and many corn farmers were suddenly making $1000/acre profit. Or even more.

This lead to taking out many fence rows, wind breaks, etc. In addition many CRP contracts expired and a lot of wind breaks planted under NRCS programs had matured and were taken out to put in center pivot irrigation. Wind breaks that provided shelter next to a food source were replaced by water and cover crops to control erosion.

Not a positive for the game birds in farmland.

Here in north central Kansas we had a lot of quail some pheasant. We grew mostly wheat and milo. Now we grow corn and soybeans. Quail population way down very few pheasants but a lot of turkeys and big whitetail deer. I actually seen a cow elk feeding on the neighbors alfalfa. Escape from ft riley

 

[sgt_zim]

And the reason food supplies are basically still plentiful and affordable. But yea taking out fence rows was never my favorite thing to see happening.

Yessir, I know as well as anyone how efficient monoculture is.

15 or 20 BPA of corn vs 200 - 220 BPA. Mechanization, nitrate, and pesticides ensure we can feed 8 billion people annually. Without them, we can't feed probably more than 1.5 billion.

 

[lwaters]

Yessir, I know as well as anyone how efficient monoculture is.

15 or 20 BPA of corn vs 200 - 220 BPA. Mechanization, nitrate, and pesticides ensure we can feed 8 billion people annually. Without them, we can't feed probably more than 1.5 billion.

That's true but would you rather raise 100 bushel corn for 4 dollars a bushel or 200 for 2 dollars a bushel.

 

[Flbt]

With all this news I have been seeing in SA about ANC and expropriation. Who knows what will happen over there long term. Why can’t the USA with SA assistance start relocating African Animals here in the USA? I know Texas has some from back in the day but i would think it would be great for us to change whatever laws in our way to make relocation possible here. I have some land I could easily put a fence on.
What animals would thrive here versus what animals would have a tough time biologically speaking?
This is just something I have pondered on.

I hate to say it but goggle what ever you want to buy
I knew we had one exotic animal auction years ago
Well that’s why you need to search for it where you are at
We know have Exotic pet sale, exotic game animals, exotic livestock ( that might be game animals)
I saw a breeding pare of warthogs thought that might be interesting until I saw bids started at $3500
It appears there a lot now

 

[Flbt]

How bout we stop importing non native species unless it’s for agriculture to feed our people? Let our native species thrive and spread as they like and can. This is some first world hobbyist nonsense. I remember listening to Kevin Robertson saying how awesome it was to have Cape buffalo in Texas. Probably doesn’t hurt that that’s his job now.. Utter poppycock says I. Most of us are usually up in arms when something like this happens in Africa but not so here. How about a little objectivity.

Whats the difference between cape or water buff behind a fence compared to a cow/horse?
None of them are native

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Whats the difference between cape or water buff behind a fence compared to a cow/horse?
None of them are native

Easy, the fact that one is here is an abomination and the other is not

 

[Flbt]

Not saying there aren't negative impacts when they go feral. Hogs are a great example. However the whitetail deer in the Hill Country of Texas seem to be doing quite well.

Not saying there aren't negative impacts when they go feral. Hogs are a great example. However the whitetail deer in the Hill Country of Texas seem to be doing quite well.

I honestly dont know if you can compare hogs to most other mammal here on the feral discussion
1- there birth rate
2-there ability to eat almost anything
3- the major point that the Spanish turn them lose in fl and Mexico for a food scorce
4 - the ability for complete demeatic hogs to revert to wild
5- the farming habit of open range with hogs in some state lasted past ww2
6- hunters moving/ releasing/buying to relocate cheaper and easer than anything else I can think of
7- them braking out of farms all over the country
8- and there were times that the states changed laws governing how you could raise livestock hog and the market fall of hogs in the 90s
That it was basically cheaper to turn your hogs out than try to sell them
Yea there were places that had hundreds of hogs today and none tomorrow

9- a bonus the pot belly pet pig
When they out grew being cute
When the market fell out and no livestock auction would take them
When a liter of pigs got to old-big to sell as cute pets
A buch of potbelly went wild

 

[Flbt]

Easy, the fact that one is there is an abomination and the other is not

By who’s ethnics?
Seriously I know people trying to raise water buff and American bison and beefaloe ( cow American buff x)
The American buff is native nothing else is
Hell I have had a few boran and watsu cattle
Both blood lines that I had were only about 5 generation out of Africa

 

[Flbt]

@3chunter - your observation on the “Quail” is the very reason that introducing ANY invasive species involves risk. In just the last 30 to 50 years the US has lost 95% of it’s Native Bobwhite Quail population on the East Coast and one “theory” is a virus introduced by releasing PEN RAISED quail & pheasant — the fact that they really aren’t certain is cause for concern. Native Ruffed Grouse populations have declined significantly also - NJ closed the Grouse season 3 years ago, closed quail season 6 years ago and the wild pheasant that I saw and hunted in the 1970s-early 80s also GONE. It’s NOT related to habitat - “something” more subtle has caused the decline>
Also, previously successful introduction of Pheasants is now FAILING - Kansas pheasant population down over 80% and the Wild pheasant that were plentiful in NJ, PA, NY, VA and other States into the 1990s - is also Gone or greatly reduced. Today, if you want to hunt wild bobwhite quail - Texas & Mexico is the last good area and maybe parts of Oklahoma. For pheasant - South Dakota has the largest population and even there many places “release” birds onto their hunting operations and “claim” they do well.
With so many great Native animals and birds to hunt in America, I’m more interested in protecting them or increasing their populations than “introducing” Non native species. If someone wants to keep a pet, or fenced population - I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they don’t ever mix with wild animals and cannot spread disease etc.. Just my opinion.

Fwc and quail for ever
Said our quail population was a multitude of factors
One of the biggest in fl,ga,Al were fireants
Nest raiders
Coyote
The Chang of farming types not leave headge rows
And farm chemicals that tomato and watermelon growers used that made shells very very brittle that the hen setting could crack the eggs

 

[Flbt]

There are more tigers in Texas than in the wild in the rest of the world.

A few year's ago I got a call from my state G&F to go get one that was on the loose. I had a guy with a tranquilizer gun lined up along with a veterinarian to help me "oversee" "the operation and recommend dosages.

I ran by the house to grab my Model 70 and 7 tiger pills, just in case.

View attachment 667470

We never found the "tiger"...

(Probably just a bobcat seen by someone with an overactive imagination.)


Probably the most exciting day I've had helping the Georgia DNR!


(I have a friend that got one in Viet Nam in the 60's, but that was hardly hunting)

Ga ?
Don’t be surprised if it was a cat
Not far of the ga line on the fl side
There was what we kids called the cat man
Had a tiger lion and a something jag,lepord
What ever
He got sick cats were gone

There been talk about lost movie cats that went missing at waculla springs with the old Tarzan movies in the early days of film
There was a fl panther killed on ga a few years ago

And the jagulara the funny looking mid size cat they Tryed to raise as a fur livestock animal
I saw game cam pictures of one up in Seminole county

 

[Flbt]

One of the biggest reasons for the loss of Bobwhite quail, at least in the southeastern US, is the invasion of fire ants that is believed to have started in Mobile in the 1930s.

Large-scale, monoculture farming is another contributing factor, or so it is believed.

I now have 3 small covies of bobwhite
We had 1 about 25 years ago I did not let any one hunt them. About 10 years later bye had 2 covies there about 40 on one and 10 on the other
This year we had 3 the big one the small one about up to 20 birds
Now the 3rd one is under 10 from what I can tell but hangs out right at a swampy edge

I leave the old headge rows up
And a little clover- Rey- reygrass on the edge of each field
I like my little birds and will buy them instead of shooting them
My nephew wants to I have thought of letting him have 1 fly up from the 2 bigger covies
He 10 so I don’t think he would hurt them to bad
But I haven’t after babysitting them so long
I might if we get to 4 covies
I don’t think my place will support more than that

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

By who’s ethnics?
Seriously I know people trying to raise water buff and American bison and beefaloe ( cow American buff x)
The American buff is native nothing else is
Hell I have had a few boran and watsu cattle
Both blood lines that I had were only about 5 generation out of Africa

I don’t know by who’s “ethnics” but you’re comparing apples to oranges. This thread is talking specifically about importing non native species for hunting purposes. I’ll stand by my earlier comments saying it’s not sound conservation. I have no problem with importing species to feed the masses

 

[Red Leg]

I just have zero interest in visiting.a trophy room and being regaled about shooting a Kudu in the Hill Country. And to @spike.t ’s point, not much more interest in hearing about a lechwe killed on a game farm in SA. It is much the same thing. The biggest part of the adventure for me is hunting an animal in its indigenous environment.

 

[Safari Dave]

Even though I have a M.S. degree in Fish & Wildlife Biology from the University of Georgia, I've never worked as a professional biologist, and don't try to pass myself off as one.

However, I do spend much time outdoors and do associate with wildlife professionals.

IMO:

Ruffed Grouse - (in the eastern US)

-I think populations have always fluctuated quite a bit due to weather and food resources.
- I believe populations have mainly suffered in the last decade because of turkey and feral hogs, in the mountains. (The Appalachian Mountains are the only place I've hunted them, other than the Rockies on a couple of occasions)
- There are also many other "varmints" that are preying on them now than in year's past. (racoons, opossums., coyotes, bobcats, hawks, foxes, etc.) - Folks use to hunt "furbearers" or just shoot them on sight to protect yard chickens. They don't anymore.
- I haven't seen or heard a Ruffed Grouse in the Georgia mountains in over a decade.

(In the Western US, the same grouse act as as a completely differently animal - I have seen several coveys, of a dozen or more, just sit there, as you shoot them. Heck, you don't even need a shotgun. My son got one with a bow and another with a .22 rifle year before last in Wyoming. If he had a shotgun, he could have easily taken a quick limit.)





Bob-White Quail -

We live less than 60 miles from North Carolina in the N.E. Georgia mountains. Bob-white used to be quite common here in the late 70's and early 80's. In fact quail hunting was my grandfather's favorite sport. He kept bird dogs and hunted with other men until the early '80's. In the 70's and early 80's we could just sit out in his front yard and hear them calling in the afternoons.

I went on the my last quail hunt near home in 1983. We jumped 2 coveys while hunting all day long.

We had a covey appear in the field in front of my house in the summer of 2015. We saw them for a couple of weeks, and haven't seen nor heard any since.

IMO, their demise was cause by many things:
- farming practices, leading to the wild seeds they needed, being almost annihilated.
- fire ants - showed up about 15 years ago.
- turkeys became much more common
- feral hogs began appearing
- "varmints" became MUCH more prevalent - In the 1980's everyone just stopped killing them.
- hawks - due to laws that prohibited killing them (In 1980, I saw about 1 per week, now I see over a dozen every day)
- coyotes - started showing up around 1985
- racoons, foxes, bobcats, opossums - everyone just quit hunting or even shooting them to protect their domesticated animals.
- White-Tailed Deer - became ubiquitous. Everyone started deer hunting, and (for the most part) quit hunting or even caring about hunting anything else.

 

[Ridge Runner]

It's been a few years, but I had a spot on public land here in Tennessee. Every day that I could head out for an early morning deer hunt in this area about 1pm I would head back to my truck, exchange my rifle for my shotgun and a half dozen or so shells, head back up the trail, meet about 40+ quail shoot 4, and leave, shooting 12 to 18 birds for the season, over 3 seasons.

A couple of seasons later, one afternoon I was returning to my truck a bit later than usual from my normal morning deer hunt. The quail were so dense it looked like every leaf on the ground was walking in formation. Well over 100+ birds. Shot 6 birds. Went back a week later no quail, nor that aggravating grouse I had been threatening to kill.

Found out some hunters came down from Virginia shot every quail and grouse their dogs could find. Wiped out every bird in the area in three or four days.

 

[Safari Dave]

We would never shoot over 2-3 quail from a wild covey.

Grouse have always been so sparse down here, that we have never shot more than one when flushed.

 

[Philip Glass]

Well there are lots where we live. We can see the neighbors Gemsbok herd from our patios.. There are very nice Sable, Kudu, Gravies Zebra, black wildebeest, eland. Nyala, blesbuck, Impala, sitatungo, Thompson's and Grant's gazelle.

From North Africa there are tons of scimitar horned oryx, Arabian oryx, of course lots of Aoudad. We personally have a small herd of Addax. We'd love to get some dama gazelles which are available but expensive and need special protection from predators. Our long term plan is build predator proof fence around a few acres surrounding our house and get a maybe 2 or 3 female and a male. The various oryx and addax as well as sable, etc. are very "predator resistant" at to the Texas predators. We do have a neighbor who lost fallow to a mountain lion (which can be shot on sight here).

There are Cape buffalo and giraffes and Roan. I would love to have Roan but they are very expensive. As are bongo and sitatunga. Wart hog and red River hog. African porcupine. There is a live white rhino nearby.

You can find lots of various sheep and goats. Markhor and various breeds and cross breeds of Ibex. Kangaroo, especially the big reds. Emu and ostrich.

There are no Bontebok and I'm told you cannot import them. Not even embryos that could be implanted into blesbok. As for laws that need changing, things like Arabian Oryx are an example, the males are not worth much because it is very difficult to get a permit to shoot one. Even if you own it. Pretty universally the females are worth more than the males. However if mature males cannot be shot, the spread is greater.. It's kind a pyramid scheme, the more rare and popular ones bringing more money until they are bred up and supply is greater.

They are breeding white bison by crossing with Charolais cattle. Lots of regular bison.

Egyptian geese are now the 6th most populous wild goose in Texas. We have 5 living here. A neighbor has swans and various ducks.

About every deer species is available including lots of red deer and axis deer which along with blackbuck and Aoudad are feral and can be hunted quite easily if you have access to land. If it is unfenced around here and has food, shelter and water... those species as well as hogs and whitetail are very likely there.

Most of these critters have originated from surplus stock in zoos. Too many seem to suffer from a lot of inbreeding so could definitely use a supply of new genetics.

Big business trading wildlife in Texas. They are sold as great investment opportunity. There are tax advantages but nothing different from cattle or any other livestock except that you can drop a lot of money into very few head with certain wildlife. And probably lose money faster than with domestic livestock... so great tax write offs

I didn't know you had Addax. I have a big herd and they do well here!

 

[Philip Glass]

How bout we stop importing non native species unless it’s for agriculture to feed our people? Let our native species thrive and spread as they like and can. This is some first world hobbyist nonsense. I remember listening to Kevin Robertson saying how awesome it was to have Cape buffalo in Texas. Probably doesn’t hurt that that’s his job now.. Utter poppycock says I. Most of us are usually up in arms when something like this happens in Africa but not so here. How about a little objectivity.

Let's remember this is on fenced, private land in Texas. This is a big part of my business and certainly no hobby.