Live Animal Relocation to USA

[HankBuck]

Coyotes not so much- they actually help keep raccoons, skunks and opossums down which do more damage to nesting ground birds

@wildwilderness - Coyote are the only predator that did Not exist “East of the Mississippi” before 1900 and are now heavily established in every Eastern State…but I agree with you that they should not be a signifiant predator of ground nesting birds and they might “off set” the damage they do by killing other “nest raiders” like Skunk, opossum, Fox). Also, the Turkey population continues to thrive & expand in the East despite Coyotes now being a newly established predator.

 

[3chunter]

@wildwilderness - Coyote are the only predator that did Not exist “East of the Mississippi” before 1900 and are now heavily established in every Eastern State…but I agree with you that they should not be a signifiant predator of ground nesting birds and they might “off set” the damage they do by killing other “nest raiders” like Skunk, opossum, Fox). Also, the Turkey population continues to thrive & expand in the East despite Coyotes now being a newly established predator.

Problem is when turkeys nest April,May,June the coyotes don’t eat coons or skunk then. They eat Hen turkeys at night. If it’s rainy they can smell a wet turkey from a mile away.

 

[HankBuck]

Problem is when turkeys nest April,May,June the coyotes don’t eat coons or skunk then. They eat Hen turkeys at night. If it’s rainy they can smell a wet turkey from a mile away.

@3chunter - makes sense because “ I can smell a WET Turkey” from 100 yrds away…they stink, I’d rather gut a deer then clean a Turkey

 

[ActionBob]

According to some game warden and biologist friends of my late grandfather, the reason for the reduction in quail is the increase in well manicured lawns and grazed fields which reduces the tall native meadows and brambles they need to hide from predators. Also, the increase in feral cats, native foxes, and coyotes in recent years hasn’t helped.

Actually in Kentucky, increasing native meadows has been a big push from the KYDFW.

Probably the corn price. Corn was in the $4 range for brief period prior to the Carter Soviet grain embargo. Then it lingered around $2 for a long time. Some weather related bumps then hit $8 i believe in 2008 and many corn farmers were suddenly making $1000/acre profit. Or even more.

This lead to taking out many fence rows, wind breaks, etc. In addition many CRP contracts expired and a lot of wind breaks planted under NRCS programs had matured and were taken out to put in center pivot irrigation. Wind breaks that provided shelter next to a food source were replaced by water and cover crops to control erosion.

Not a positive for the game birds in farmland.

 

[ActionBob]

@BourbonTrail - I’ve heard those comment too but most have been proven incorrect (even though some logic is there). The reason is that even in areas where the landscape has Never “changed” ie: large parks and Non hunting areas that use to hold quail & pheasant but Now do NOT? Salt water marshes that are the same today as 100 years ago - except the pheasant aren’t there. Also, entire States and some very large tracts of land (1000s of acres) have been managed for perfect habitat, captured “wild quail & pleasant” reintroduced AND predators like fox, skunk, raccoon heavily trapped & controlled - and still they can’t get a population started or self sustaining. Compared to the 1950s & 60s when Nothing was done but somehow the birds flourished. It is a complex problem and I am amazed no one has a solution - because there is desire and big $$ to be made if this problem could be resolved.
A recent exception is the reintroduction of Wild Turkey to many States - New Jersey had Zero Wild turkey for over 150 years up until 1990 when some were live trapped in PA and released —- in 10 years they opened a Turkey season and now there birds thrive …but previous native Quail and ruffed Grouse are gone or close to it and no one can figure out why or correct it??

We've seen an increase in our wild turkey population in our part of Minnesota. This in an area of natural high roughed grouse population. I'm not sure if grouse go through natural population swings like rabbits and foxes... But when you see a flock of 40 to 100 turkeys out foraging it is hard to believe a grouse nest would survive.

 

[ActionBob]

Back to African (and Asian) exotic wildlife in the Texas Hill Country....I do not believe it has a lot to do with hunting. Hunting is probably at least down to 4th as motivation to own them.

This is worthless farmland and very poor ranch land. Yet it sells for extremely high prices. Like $10,000 to $60,000 plus per acre. And yet Texas has an Ag Exemption on Real Estate taxes that taxes the land at it's productive capacity. There is also a Wildlife Exemption that is a little more involved... Exotics are livestock. So they work to get the Ag Exemption. I think tax Management, both Real Estate and Income tax, is the number one motivation behind owning Exotics in the Hill Country. Number two i believe is yard art! They are just plain cool to see and have around. Third is people actually trying to propagate them and run them as a profitable enterprise alternative to cattle, sheep or goats. Some of the thinking is that a 500 pound roan eats about the same amount of feed as a 500 pound Angus but that Roan female is worth $50,000 to $75,000. Many of those businesses actually refuse to sell their surplus animals to hunters. I do believe most old aged males do find their end with a hunters bullet. As they should it being the best use at that point. But many just die of old age.

 

[sgt_zim]

@3chunter - your observation on the “Quail” is the very reason that introducing ANY invasive species involves risk. In just the last 30 to 50 years the US has lost 95% of it’s Native Bobwhite Quail population on the East Coast and one “theory” is a virus introduced by releasing PEN RAISED quail & pheasant — the fact that they really aren’t certain is cause for concern. Native Ruffed Grouse populations have declined significantly also - NJ closed the Grouse season 3 years ago, closed quail season 6 years ago and the wild pheasant that I saw and hunted in the 1970s-early 80s also GONE. It’s NOT related to habitat - “something” more subtle has caused the decline>
Also, previously successful introduction of Pheasants is now FAILING - Kansas pheasant population down over 80% and the Wild pheasant that were plentiful in NJ, PA, NY, VA and other States into the 1990s - is also Gone or greatly reduced. Today, if you want to hunt wild bobwhite quail - Texas & Mexico is the last good area and maybe parts of Oklahoma. For pheasant - South Dakota has the largest population and even there many places “release” birds onto their hunting operations and “claim” they do well.
With so many great Native animals and birds to hunt in America, I’m more interested in protecting them or increasing their populations than “introducing” Non native species. If someone wants to keep a pet, or fenced population - I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they don’t ever mix with wild animals and cannot spread disease etc.. Just my opinion.

One of the biggest reasons for the loss of Bobwhite quail, at least in the southeastern US, is the invasion of fire ants that is believed to have started in Mobile in the 1930s.

Large-scale, monoculture farming is another contributing factor, or so it is believed.

 

[ActionBob]

The geese and addax are at our house. The rest are screenshots.

 

[Muskox]

Couple links for you:
www.wildlifebuyer.com

Home

WildLife Partners is an innovator in the exotic wildlife industry. We are the largest breeder and broker of exotic wildlife ...

exoticauction.com

I think there are others, but I don't remember what they are.

The Exotic Wildlife Foundation would be another.

 

[HankBuck]

We've seen an increase in our wild turkey population in our part of Minnesota. This in an area of natural high roughed grouse population. I'm not sure if grouse go through natural population swings like rabbits and foxes... But when you see a flock of 40 to 100 turkeys out foraging it is hard to believe a grouse nest would survive.

@ActionBob - there’s LOGIC in your comments, as one species increases it could come at the expense of another? But since no one has figured out an exact cause or solution - unlikely it is as simple as that….I certainly Don’t know. The speculation is endless and there is certainly a desire to resolve the problem - must be more complex then just one or two things involved. Some articles have noted the tremendous increase in whitetail deer (Nationwide) coincides with the decrease of pheasant & quail and there is a logic (no proof) in that assumption too - a 2000% increase in whitetail deer in 40 years certainly must change habitat is Some Way?
I guess we can’t have “everything” (great abundant Deer hunting and Great upland bird hunting). Even rabbit populations are way down —- and nothing breeds better then rabbits !!

 

[HankBuck]

One of the biggest reasons for the loss of Bobwhite quail, at least in the southeastern US, is the invasion of fire ants that is believed to have started in Mobile in the 1930s.

Large-scale, monoculture farming is another contributing factor, or so it is believed.

@sgt_zim - never heard that about Fire Ants and sure they wouldn’t help anything but the “Mono Culture Farming” - Clean Farming, elimination of hedge rows, use of chemicals, Round Up herbicides etc… have all been studied and eliminated as the “cause” but all ADD to the problem. As You point out they become “contributing factors”. This decline in upland bird & even rabbit populations hasn’t snuck up on us - it’s been gradual but steady for 40 years. Within that time - as maybe a “consolation prize” is a reciprocal large INCREASE in Deer, Turkey, & Bear populations.

 

[mdwest]

I did not know that sitka blacktails were introduced to Kodiak. I haven't been there, but had assumed that the deer were natives. I learned something new. So that would be a good introduction. There are others. Like pheasants. who doesn't like pheasants? But then look st all of the invasive species running amok in Florida, the Caribean, and Australia. Even New Zealanders complain about the deer and goat species introduced there. Introducing "exotic" species often leads to unforseen consequences.

My wife and I did a black tail hunt on Kodiak for a few days… it was a wonderful hunt.. beautiful, rugged terrain, and a very cool and curious deer species…

 

[sgt_zim]

@sgt_zim - never heard that about Fire Ants and sure they wouldn’t help anything but the “Mono Culture Farming” - Clean Farming, elimination of hedge rows, use of chemicals, Round Up herbicides etc… have all been studied and eliminated as the “cause” but all ADD to the problem. As You point out they become “contributing factors”. This decline in upland bird & even rabbit populations hasn’t snuck up on us - it’s been gradual but steady for 40 years. Within that time - as maybe a “consolation prize” is a reciprocal large INCREASE in Deer, Turkey, & Bear populations.

Dad was a cooperative extension service phd entomologist for LSU for 40 years. I don't know what studies he looked at, but he's convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that fire ants and commercial mono-cropping (habitat loss, as others here have mentioned) are the 2 largest culprits in their decline.

Timberland habitat ground-nesting birds don't seem to have been much affected by the ants. We've open pasture as well as timber on my place, and for the most part, pasture is the only place I see ants. Our woodcock population seems to be as it was when I was a kid 40 - 50 years ago; they still startle the shit out of me when I'm walking to a tree stand in the dark. I haven't seen quail there in decades. Anecdotal, of course.

Same for turkeys - their numbers seem to ebb and flow with the rise and fall of coyote and bobcat numbers.

 

[spike.t]

Why, why, why? I have to ask
I would not want white tail, muskox, wolvesor bears here
It takes away theallure and interest to travel to far away lands to see something new and different

Mmmm....Stuart I could bring up the various lechwe species...zambian sable...matetsi sable...East African Cape buffalo....fallow deer ..other deer species...tigers....etc etc etc that are available for hunting in SA ....not exactlyin their home range...but I won't mention it....

 

[Safari Dave]

There are more tigers in Texas than in the wild in the rest of the world.

A few year's ago I got a call from my state G&F to go get one that was on the loose. I had a guy with a tranquilizer gun lined up along with a veterinarian to help me "oversee" "the operation and recommend dosages.

I ran by the house to grab my Model 70 and 7 tiger pills, just in case.

We never found the "tiger"...

(Probably just a bobcat seen by someone with an overactive imagination.)


Probably the most exciting day I've had helping the Georgia DNR!


(I have a friend that got one in Viet Nam in the 60's, but that was hardly hunting)

 

[John Wasmuth]

One of the biggest reasons for the loss of Bobwhite quail, at least in the southeastern US, is the invasion of fire ants that is believed to have started in Mobile in the 1930s.

Large-scale, monoculture farming is another contributing factor, or so it is believed.

Bingo!

 

[Ridge Runner]

Why, why, why? I have to ask
I would not want white tail, muskox, wolvesor bears here
It takes away theallure and interest to travel to far away lands to see something new and different

Money, money, money.....
Bragging rights, bragging rights, bragging rights.....
Convenience....


And the very least having the option, the ability, to bring home the meat.

Sadly to say, but there are people that are willing to pay big money to walk out into a preverbial pasture, shoot a record book animal, that's bigger than anyone else's in that social group, just so they can brag about how big their "trophy" is and how much money the "hunt cost", and they didn't have to travel out of the US, spend a week or two actually hunting, with only a remote possibility, to kill a "lesser" size record book animal.

 

[Safari Dave]

Not that I wouldn't do it, especially if someone else were paying, but I have very little interest in hunting most animals in places they could not be, except for human intervention.


However, I can think of a a couple of few exceptions:

Ringneck Pheasant (in the US)
Red Stag (New Zealand, etc.)

If I though about it longer, I'm sure I could come up with a few more.


Kudu in Texas, no thanks...



(Seeing the world for natural history is important to me, but I'd go to New Zealand or Argentina to hunt exotics)

 

[Safari Dave]

Just my (somewhat educated) opinion, but I think the "stocking" of or "reintroduction" of Eastern Wild Turkey in many places has been detrimental to Bob-White Quail and Ruffed Grouse populations.


Certainly, not the only reason...

 

[Red Leg]

Dad was a cooperative extension service phd entomologist for LSU for 40 years. I don't know what studies he looked at, but he's convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that fire ants and commercial mono-cropping (habitat loss, as others here have mentioned) are the 2 largest culprits in their decline.

Timberland habitat ground-nesting birds don't seem to have been much affected by the ants. We've open pasture as well as timber on my place, and for the most part, pasture is the only place I see ants. Our woodcock population seems to be as it was when I was a kid 40 - 50 years ago; they still startle the shit out of me when I'm walking to a tree stand in the dark. I haven't seen quail there in decades. Anecdotal, of course.

Same for turkeys - their numbers seem to ebb and flow with the rise and fall of coyote and bobcat numbers.

Those who do not live with fire ants have no idea what a biblical plague they can be in the South. In Texas, it is almost impossible to lay a game bag with a couple of doves in it on the ground or next to fence post. Red ants will swarm it like a scene from The Naked Jungle (Charlton Heston 1954). Fledglings have little chance.