Limpopo Buffalo

[grand veneur]

Very sad what has become with hunting in Africa.

 

[375Fox]

Hi guys,

What are the characteristics to look for to determine if they are/still young? The top one looks a bit older anyway, right?

Here’s a good article. The best resource though is “Africa’s Most Dangerous” by Kevin Robertson if you can get a copy.

Thread 'Field Aging Buffalo Bulls'

Jan 13, 2022

The recent Rigby competition and numerous comments at the trade shows, has led me to believe that very few clients know how to judge the age of a buffalo bull in the field. As we at Ndumo Safaris really go out of our way to target older than 12-year buffs, I thought some of you may find my pointers interesting.

First off, let me just say that the only way to determine a buffalo’s age with approaching 100% accuracy, is to measure wear on the back molars. People like Kevin Robertson has done great work in developing a graph that can be used to accurately plot a bull’s age against the wear...

• ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS
• Replies: 29
• Forum: Articles

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[FlowHamed18]

Hi

I would strongly recommend to buy and read this book at least two or three times.

Most of your questions will be answered (and some of them you don't even know of right now too )

https://www.amazon.com/Africas-Dangerous-photographs-Catherine-Robertson/dp/1571572775

I hunted my first buff in August last year in RSA and got him on day 6 of 7. It was a blast to hunt with Ian Brown. I enjoyed every minute with him, but it was exhausting to be in the bush the whole day running after 3 buffs for hours and hours... but that's the way of hunting buffalo I always dreamed of.

 

[Red Leg]

Hi

I would strongly recommend to buy and read this book at least two or three times.

Most of your questions will be answered (and some of them you don't even know of right now too )

https://www.amazon.com/Africas-Dangerous-photographs-Catherine-Robertson/dp/1571572775

I hunted my first buff in August last year in RSA and got him on day 6 of 7. It was a blast to hunt with Ian Brown. I enjoyed every minute with him, but it was exhausting to be in the bush the whole day running after 3 buffs for hours and hours... but that's the way of hunting buffalo I always dreamed of.

Sadly, not actually available on Amazon, nor a listing on eBay. I tried a search on AbeBooks and found three listings, though all are the author signed limited edition printings from Safari Press.

Africa's Most Dangerous by Robertson - AbeBooks

Africa's Most Dangerous: The Southern Buffalo (Syncerus caffer caffer) by Robertson, Kevin and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.com.

www.abebooks.com

 

[Hunting Hitman]

The main issue I have with South African hunting aside from being on small properties with known game available is the price and experience. Most South African operators are trying to charge the same amount of money or more as free range operations outside of South Africa when the animals in the fence are a commodity.
You cannot compare Buffalo hunting in Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, or Mozambique to South Africa as a general rule.
I don’t really want to argue the point but having taken 18 buffs in the wild and 1 in SA I have a small frame of reference to come up with my opinion.
Decide what type of experience you really want and stick to it.

HH

 

[VINOYASADO]

Here’s a good article. The best resource though is “Africa’s Most Dangerous” by Kevin Robertson if you can get a copy.

Thread 'Field Aging Buffalo Bulls'

Jan 13, 2022

The recent Rigby competition and numerous comments at the trade shows, has led me to believe that very few clients know how to judge the age of a buffalo bull in the field. As we at Ndumo Safaris really go out of our way to target older than 12-year buffs, I thought some of you may find my pointers interesting.

First off, let me just say that the only way to determine a buffalo’s age with approaching 100% accuracy, is to measure wear on the back molars. People like Kevin Robertson has done great work in developing a graph that can be used to accurately plot a bull’s age against the wear...

• ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS
• Replies: 29
• Forum: Articles

• 
• 

I can’t post link to this article, but you can look it up yourself. I think it adds some balance. Some buffalo are obviously too young but a lot of people have unrealistic ideas or add a few years on to their buffalo’s real age. Most buffalo taken are probably in the 8-10 year range.
View attachment 656600

Thank you very much man!

 

[FlowHamed18]

You cannot compare Buffalo hunting in Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, or Mozambique to South Africa as a general rule.
I don’t really want to argue the point but having taken 18 buffs in the wild and 1 in SA I have a small frame of reference to come up with my opinion.
Decide what type of experience you really want and stick to it.

HH

I fully agree and can only refer to my hunt in RSA where I ran miles and miles to get spooked and spooked again... it felt quite real beeing in the bush, sweating, getting tortured by thorns, mosquitoes and other creatures.

My PH just said on day 4: "after this day you really can say you have hunted buffalo the right way". I have to say we got spooked once in the morning and three times in the afternoon, we followed those three dagga boys for more than 6 hours... definitely felt like hard work to get an old buff on this day. Maybe not as hard as in Tanzania or Botswana, but it was a fair chase on foot...

 

[VINOYASADO]

The main issue I have with South African hunting aside from being on small properties with known game available is the price and experience. Most South African operators are trying to charge the same amount of money or more as free range operations outside of South Africa when the animals in the fence are a commodity.
You cannot compare Buffalo hunting in Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, or Mozambique to South Africa as a general rule.
I don’t really want to argue the point but having taken 18 buffs in the wild and 1 in SA I have a small frame of reference to come up with my opinion.
Decide what type of experience you really want and stick to it.

HH

Not speaking for all, but most (me included) unfortunately depend on money and it seem SA has the lower prices...

Are all SA the same? all high fenced? all little concesions?

 

[FlowHamed18]

Not speaking for all, but most (me included) unfortunately depend on money and it seem SA has the lower prices...

Are all SA the same? all high fenced? all little concesions?

No, there are very different offers.

There are several larger properties with self sustaining herds.

There are a lot of great offers on this site on a regular basis.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Not speaking for all, but most (me included) unfortunately depend on money and it seem SA has the lower prices...

Are all SA the same? all high fenced? all little concesions?

Buy once, cry once.

Ok, who am I kidding? I’ve taken so many “last safari”s it’s become a running joke with my peeps.

 

[gizmo]

The question was whether the bulls were good RSA bulls not what one's opinion of hunting RSA is. I'd sure love the keyboard warriors to put their money where their mouths are and start paying for peoples hunts who cannot afford to hunt places like Moz, Zam, and the like. I'd venture a guess no one who piped up from the peanut gallery has a clue what outfitter or the size of the operation these bulls are on is. it may have been mentioned by now after two pages of belittling this guy for asking a question on a hunt he can afford or has the time to do but sure wasn't when I had read enough to know where this was going. Ya'll do more to ruin peoples hopes of getting to go on safaris by demeaning and belittling them when they ask questions, then to ensure to get those you miss do the same on their posts when they dare to post pictures with animals that YOU don't approve of. Maybe if you don't have anything constructive to add to a conversation you should show some discretion and stay out of it. I've tried to bite my lip on this issue as of late but enough is enough. Get over yourselves.
To answer your question both are fantastic bulls and yes they are a touch young however RSA is different in that the hunting is done predominantly on game farms where private management of wildlife is different than on huge hunting blocks of wilderness areas, where shooting a younger bull would be not kosher. In RSA many bulls this age are taken to reduce herd numbers, change genetics in a herd, or many different reasons.
If you trust your PH, have a good report with him, and are confident that he knows what YOUR expectations are for what you consider a good hunt; go for it. Don't let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.

 

[LIMPOPO NORTH SAFARIS]

While they are young the bosses are covered with hair and a outer shell that they "rub" off over time against trees shrubs and play fighting as the mature and start showing dominance. this rubbing action also acts as a form of territory marking of showing of dominance this in turn over time wears the ruggedness down the horns become smooth not as rugged as they used to be in younger bulls. this is a very short description hope it helps.

 

[LIMPOPO NORTH SAFARIS]

Hi guys,

What are the characteristics to look for to determine if they are/still young? The top one looks a bit older anyway, right?

 

[dogcat1]

Not to denigrate these bulls, but they are both "managed" and will get very big. They are still a tad young and do not have the drop associated with really "good" bulls. It is a bit like hunting managed deer or elk, the horns/antler sell the hunt.

If you are after an experience, go to the Zambezi Valley in truly wild country to hunt them. Another option that is a bit easier than the Zambezi Valley is Uganda. Lots of big buff in open country, more of a truck hunt than tracking.

I prefer several days on tracks to look at various bulls. Try it and you will be hooked... literally.

 

[Flipper Dude]

The question was whether the bulls were good RSA bulls not what one's opinion of hunting RSA is. I'd sure love the keyboard warriors to put their money where their mouths are and start paying for peoples hunts who cannot afford to hunt places like Moz, Zam, and the like. I'd venture a guess no one who piped up from the peanut gallery has a clue what outfitter or the size of the operation these bulls are on is. it may have been mentioned by now after two pages of belittling this guy for asking a question on a hunt he can afford or has the time to do but sure wasn't when I had read enough to know where this was going. Ya'll do more to ruin peoples hopes of getting to go on safaris by demeaning and belittling them when they ask questions, then to ensure to get those you miss do the same on their posts when they dare to post pictures with animals that YOU don't approve of. Maybe if you don't have anything constructive to add to a conversation you should show some discretion and stay out of it. I've tried to bite my lip on this issue as of late but enough is enough. Get over yourselves.
To answer your question both are fantastic bulls and yes they are a touch young however RSA is different in that the hunting is done predominantly on game farms where private management of wildlife is different than on huge hunting blocks of wilderness areas, where shooting a younger bull would be not kosher. In RSA many bulls this age are taken to reduce herd numbers, change genetics in a herd, or many different reasons.
If you trust your PH, have a good report with him, and are confident that he knows what YOUR expectations are for what you consider a good hunt; go for it. Don't let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.

Yes and no. I don’t see any belittling of the OP. He asked a question, and is getting responses. I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA. Will you kill one that large? Prolly not. Will it be a nice, fancy safari lodge? Probably not Will there be lechwe and gemsbok and giraffes and springbok and waterbuck around each curve? Nope. Maybe only buffalo and elephant, with a few impala mixed in. Hell, the buffalo may or may not be around. Do people want to do that hunt? That’s entirely up to the individual. I CAN point you to several wild places where you will see lots of wild, indigenous game, as well as buffalo and lion and elephant, but those are indeed more expensive. All depends on what you want out of a safari. I guess what I’m saying in a roundabout way is that a guy that hunts in South Africa every year or two can afford to hunt a wild buffalo if he chooses to. It’s not a stretch.

 

[PARA45]

Yes and no. I don’t see any belittling of the OP. He asked a question, and is getting responses. I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA. Will you kill one that large? Prolly not. Will it be a nice, fancy safari lodge? Probably not Will there be lechwe and gemsbok and giraffes and springbok and waterbuck around each curve? Nope. Maybe only buffalo and elephant, with a few impala mixed in. Hell, the buffalo may or may not be around. Do people want to do that hunt? That’s entirely up to the individual. I CAN point you to several wild places where you will see lots of wild, indigenous game, as well as buffalo and lion and elephant, but those are indeed more expensive. All depends on what you want out of a safari. I guess what I’m saying in a roundabout way is that a guy that hunts in South Africa every year or two can afford to hunt a wild buffalo if he chooses to. It’s not a stretch.

I believe this is where we as the hunting community on this forum should jump in and offer suggestions, or alternatives to XYZ hunts. You said: "I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA." Then say it and provide assistance to this individual. Now, if the OP wants to only hunt in SA, then any suggestion may be a waste of time, but then again, this might get him into thinking of other places to hunt. I'm sure most of us don't care about the luxuries offered at the lodge but I'm sure most would rather have a great hunt vs. a five-star lodge. Let's be positive and provide assistance to those who don't have the experience or the financial means as some on here do. Some here don't care about the measuring tape, they want a good experience, and a memorable hunt. Let's help out our hunters.

 

[gizmo]

Yes and no. I don’t see any belittling of the OP. He asked a question, and is getting responses. I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA. Will you kill one that large? Prolly not. Will it be a nice, fancy safari lodge? Probably not Will there be lechwe and gemsbok and giraffes and springbok and waterbuck around each curve? Nope. Maybe only buffalo and elephant, with a few impala mixed in. Hell, the buffalo may or may not be around. Do people want to do that hunt? That’s entirely up to the individual. I CAN point you to several wild places where you will see lots of wild, indigenous game, as well as buffalo and lion and elephant, but those are indeed more expensive. All depends on what you want out of a safari. I guess what I’m saying in a roundabout way is that a guy that hunts in South Africa every year or two can afford to hunt a wild buffalo if he chooses to. It’s not a stretch.

You must have missed the whole “what are their names” and an entire page of other BS unnecessary comments and again he simply asked if they were good RSA bulls, not what people’s opinions of hunting RSA is. Had he asked “are these two bulls good AND what are your opinions on hunting RSA” that would be a different story, but it’s not.
Can hunts be had for around the same price sure at times. I have seen them myself and talked to, done business with, and even set up hunts for people on them considering it’s been a pretty good part of my business for about 10 years but… apples to apples wild hunts are 99% of the time more expensive and sometimes require more time to do them (obviously not always depending upon the hunt). It’s not just the hunt either; airfare, shipping, DPC, logistics, and on and on are almost always more expensive and time consuming.
The thing is when people pipe up a lot of assumptions are made when the reality is those doing the blabbing almost never know the person asking the question’s situation. I love how people assume, “well if a guy can afford or do this than he can afford or do that”. 1. It’s not your money 2. That always isn’t the case, maybe there are health issues involved, maybe someone has to go for business a couple times a year (I know for a fact there are a few here that fall into this category) and their company is picking up the bulk of their travel expenses 3. It’s no one but that person’s business how they choose to do something
Again if folks want to start paying for other’s hunts get after it. If not, be respectful. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion or a personal set of beliefs or individual morals. There is everything wrong with trying to shove them down everyone who doesn’t agree with them’s throat and several in the peanut gallery on this thread are terrible about it.
If this guy was being told these were some super wild Selous Buffalo in RSA on eight trillion unfenced acres and that Ruark himself was going to come back from the dead to be on this hunt hunt sure…. Lett’r rip but….. that’s not the issue and having considered that he has hunted RSA multiple times he has a pretty good idea of what RSA is about.
There is nothing in the OP to indicate there is any fowl play involved. He simply asked if the buffalo were good for RSA and stated he wasn’t knowledgeable enough on Buffalo to know. Within a few posts he’s being asked if, “they have names” and there it starts. It’s childish and gets very very old.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I believe this is where we as the hunting community on this forum should jump in and offer suggestions, or alternatives to XYZ hunts. You said: "I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA." Then say it and provide assistance to this individual. Now, if the OP wants to only hunt in SA, then any suggestion may be a waste of time, but then again, this might get him into thinking of other places to hunt. I'm sure most of us don't care about the luxuries offered at the lodge but I'm sure most would rather have a great hunt vs. a five-star lodge. Let's be positive and provide assistance to those who don't have the experience or the financial means as some on here do. Some here don't care about the measuring tape, they want a good experience, and a memorable hunt. Let's help out our hunters.

I’m not an agent or affiliated with any company whatsoever, but would be happy to help anyone that feels they may benefit from it. Also, being clear, I don’t wish to alienate any SA operators. There are some good buff hunts available there I’ve taken buff in the APNR adjacent to Kruger. Not cheap. Free range buffalo but not wild Africa. Still, a wonderful hunt. I’ve also been shut out on a buffalo hunt in SA. Skittish as a whitetail and thick brush. Every man makes his decision on the type of hunt he wishes for.

 

[gizmo]

Yes and no. I don’t see any belittling of the OP. He asked a question, and is getting responses. I can find you a wild buffalo to hunt for what you will pay in SA. Will you kill one that large? Prolly not. Will it be a nice, fancy safari lodge? Probably not Will there be lechwe and gemsbok and giraffes and springbok and waterbuck around each curve? Nope. Maybe only buffalo and elephant, with a few impala mixed in. Hell, the buffalo may or may not be around. Do people want to do that hunt? That’s entirely up to the individual. I CAN point you to several wild places where you will see lots of wild, indigenous game, as well as buffalo and lion and elephant, but those are indeed more expensive. All depends on what you want out of a safari. I guess what I’m saying in a roundabout way is that a guy that hunts in South Africa every year or two can afford to hunt a wild buffalo if he chooses to. It’s not a stretch.

Furthermore you have no idea what offer the OP is being given. How does anyone know what the hunt will cost him and if anyone can beat it.
Case in point, prior to covid I was booked to go on a buffalo hunt is RSA with an outfitter that I have known for several years. It was going to be an outstanding hunt for the chance at some respectable bulls in very very thick cover. I was offered it for 6k all in. I booked it but Covid unfortunately cancelled it. You won’t find that anywhere outside of RSA on a publicly advertised price (and it was). I have hunted buffalo in RSA and very much enjoyed it. I would like to hunt them in Zim also but haven’t been able to as of yet. Even though I would prefer to do my next in Zim or Moz my life circumstances haven’t allowed me to do it yet. That doesn’t mean that if the right deal didn’t come along during a time that I could go for significantly less money I wouldn’t go back to RSA. I absolutely would just to get to go hunt and be I. Africa again.
I understand where you are coming from and I don’t necessarily disagree with some of what you are saying nor am I throwing stones at you specifically but…. It’s more in the manner of which many choose to say it and the pretentious attitude some on here get when something falls outside of their wheelhouse. Many in a certain group tends to pipe up on every thread they possibly find to have another opportunity to try and impress everyone else on how much of a self proclaimed great white hunter they are. It’s ridiculous and discourages a hellava lot of people new to the site that know nothing about hunting Africa other than they have always dreamed of going. They then walk away with the feeling that if RSA is their only option they are a lesser hunter for it and somehow they are doing something wrong or immoral/unethical by choosing to hunt RSA. That’s not an assumption either as I have had that exact conversation with several people over this exact issue. Not to mention you have outfitters on here than pay good money to advertise their RSA livelihoods just to have some self righteous prick crap all over it every chance they get so they can show off for their computer buddies. If I was an RSA outfitter I’d be pissed. Those throwing stones have no skin in the game nor do they contribute anything of value to these conversations no matter how much experience as a client they have had.

 

[gizmo]

I’m not an agent or affiliated with any company whatsoever, but would be happy to help anyone that feels they may benefit from it. Also, being clear, I don’t wish to alienate any SA operators. There are some good buff hunts available there I’ve taken buff in the APNR adjacent to Kruger. Not cheap. Free range buffalo but not wild Africa. Still, a wonderful hunt. I’ve also been shut out on a buffalo hunt in SA. Skittish as a whitetail and thick brush. Every man makes his decision on the type of hunt he wishes for.

Absolutely and please don’t think I’m directing my soap box at you. It’s just this type of unnecessary crap gets very old on a place that is supposed to bring hunters together not have a few try and alienate many.