Lightweight Mono Metal Bullets For Buffalo

[MLindsay]

I have been using the original 270 grn X bullet since 1995 in my 375 H&H. I guess I have taken over 100 animals with this bullet, from a red flanked duiker to 4 eland. Just returned from Botswana where I took 2 eland with it. one shoulder shot at about 80 to 90 yards complete pass through the other recovered was perfect. I have recovered many from close finishing shots that have peeled petals back flat but never sheared off. I have sheared petals on 300 win mag

 

[TOBY458]

Here's the exit wound of a 270gr TSX on a big Eland Bull. Perfect performance. Shot entered the shoulder and exited as shown. Muzzle velocity was 2750 fps. Shot distance was 256 yards. Velocity would have been down to around 2100fps at that point. The Eland took the hit and ran 20 yards or so before going down. Perfect performance for this application. Not sure what it would've done if the shot was at 25 yards instead.

 

[Mike Van Horn]

That bullet not performing at close range at that velocity is a puzzle

 

[TOBY458]

@IvW, I'm surprised you haven't chimed in on this one.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...................
If you've had similar OR opposite experiences with lightweight mono bullets driven at high velocities, please chime in with pictures or stories of actual first hand experiences.
.........

On an Oryx at 5 yards I had a 180 grain TTSX key hole into the chest after hitting a branch about 1 yard out of the barrel. Basically deflected. Still penetrated into the chest. Certainly did not expand the petals. How could it!

Otherwise, any that I recover have performed as designed. 2o yards to 600 yards.

Perhaps it was just that box of TSX? Who knows.

 

[Mike Van Horn]

On an Oryx at 5 yards I had a 180 grain TTSX key hole into the chest after hitting a branch about 1 yard out of the barrel. Basically deflected. Still penetrated into the chest. Certainly did not expand the petals. How could it!

Otherwise, any that I recover have performed as designed. 2o yards to 600 yards.

Perhaps it was just that box of TSX? Who knows.

5 yards? No one can call you a long range hunter

 

[BRICKBURN]

5 yards? No one can call you a long range hunter

It was wounded hiding in some incredibly thick brush.

 

[EZRider]

I use 270 gr TSX out of my .375 @ 2500 FPS for everything from impala to eland.
Always had textbook performance at Bushveld distances, 50 - 150 m.
Very good penetration and expansion on Wildebeest and eland at those ranges.
I have never hunted buffalo but will use the 270 TSX when I do.

 

[TOBY458]

I use 270 gr TSX out of my .375 @ 2500 FPS for everything from impala to eland.
Always had textbook performance at Bushveld distances, 50 - 150 m.
Very good penetration and expansion on Wildebeest and eland at those ranges.
I have never hunted buffalo but will use the 270 TSX when I do.

At 2500 fps, I don't suspect you'll have any problems with the 270 gr TSX. The only time I had a problem was, when I hit my lioness at 40 yards with a 270 gr TSX running a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps.

 

[IvW]

At 2500 fps, I don't suspect you'll have any problems with the 270 gr TSX. The only time I had a problem was, when I hit my lioness at 40 yards with a 270 gr TSX running a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps.

You could shoot the 300 gr bullet at that velocity and have better performance even at longer range, so whats the point?

 

[IvW]

Hunting PG and DG are chalk and cheese...

Hunting DG game you want the best bullets available. Speed is not needed and excessive velocity is working against you when hunting DG.

DG is hunted at close range with a 100 yard shot, for me anyway being very far away. You do not need excessive speed. You need a heavy for caliber bullet travelling at moderate velocity with a minimum impact speed of 2000 fps. If these lightweight high speed bullets are so good why are PH's sticking to large caliber rifles? Would a 375 with a 200gr bullet not sort everything out including elephant?

I have never liked barnes bullets and still do not especially for DG.

Why?

1-they are of spitser design
2-they are of rear weight design
3-they foul barrels
4-they do not perform consistently as designed, some do not open, some loose petals, some veer off course dramatically after hitting bone
5-they do perform better at higher velocities but that is not what you want for Buffalo hunting.
6-they depend on hydraulic action to expand and therefore expand properly when they hit soft tissue first and often malfunction when hitting hard bone with the resultant poor performance

Spitser rear weighted bullets veer off course much easier than a more round nose(expander) and meplat(solid bullets). Buffalo afre rarely hunted in wide open spaces(Mozambique delta being the exception) and quite often grass and brush is present.

You want a heavy for caliber bullet at reasonable velocity(minimum 2150 fps and maximum 2400 fps), that will expand each and every time reliably and keep penetrating in a straight line until it exits or stops.

For doubles(excluding the 500/416 NE) the Woodleighs work great due to reduced velocity.
For bolt actions Rhino are the absolute best followed by the other premium graders such as Swift and NF.

I cannot shoot Woodleighs out of my 500 Jeff at much more than 2300 fps after which they over expand and loose penetration, they look like soup plates, with the base inverted at the front. At 2200 they expand correctly.

Of course both the bullets failed on the lioness as well as the warthog irrespective if they died or not!!! Where they designed to do that??? Loose petals and fail to penetrate???

Would you be comfortable using such a bullet on a Cape buffalo???

No thanks, not me, I stick to what works and what gives me 100% performance each and every time, I stake my or my clients life on the line. I pull the trigger and if I have done my part whatever I am aiming at takes a nose dive each and every time, period.

Keep this high speed light bullet copper crap for PG or white tail, not for Cape Buffalo in Africa...

 

[TOBY458]

Hunting PG and DG are chalk and cheese...

Hunting DG game you want the best bullets available. Speed is not needed and excessive velocity is working against you when hunting DG.

DG is hunted at close range with a 100 yard shot, for me anyway being very far away. You do not need excessive speed. You need a heavy for caliber bullet travelling at moderate velocity with a minimum impact speed of 2000 fps. If these lightweight high speed bullets are so good why are PH's sticking to large caliber rifles? Would a 375 with a 200gr bullet not sort everything out including elephant?

I have never liked barnes bullets and still do not especially for DG.

Why?

1-they are of spitser design
2-they are of rear weight design
3-they foul barrels
4-they do not perform consistently as designed, some do not open, some loose petals, some veer off course dramatically after hitting bone
5-they do perform better at higher velocities but that is not what you want for Buffalo hunting.
6-they depend on hydraulic action to expand and therefore expand properly when they hit soft tissue first and often malfunction when hitting hard bone with the resultant poor performance

Spitser rear weighted bullets veer off course much easier than a more round nose(expander) and meplat(solid bullets). Buffalo afre rarely hunted in wide open spaces(Mozambique delta being the exception) and quite often grass and brush is present.

You want a heavy for caliber bullet at reasonable velocity(minimum 2150 fps and maximum 2400 fps), that will expand each and every time reliably and keep penetrating in a straight line until it exits or stops.

For doubles(excluding the 500/416 NE) the Woodleighs work great due to reduced velocity.
For bolt actions Rhino are the absolute best followed by the other premium graders such as Swift and NF.

I cannot shoot Woodleighs out of my 500 Jeff at much more than 2300 fps after which they over expand and loose penetration, they look like soup plates, with the base inverted at the front. At 2200 they expand correctly.

Of course both the bullets failed on the lioness as well as the warthog irrespective if they died or not!!! Where they designed to do that??? Loose petals and fail to penetrate???

Would you be comfortable using such a bullet on a Cape buffalo???

No thanks, not me, I stick to what works and what gives me 100% performance each and every time, I stake my or my clients life on the line. I pull the trigger and if I have done my part whatever I am aiming at takes a nose dive each and every time, period.

Keep this high speed light bullet copper crap for PG or white tail, not for Cape Buffalo in Africa...

Now that's the kind of reply I was going for!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

IvW always talks about the rhino bullets and it makes me want to try some. Has anyone purchased them from the US and if so how? I emailed the company and got a quick reply saying to tell him what I wanted so he could work out freight, I told and he never replied

 

[TOBY458]

IvW always talks about the rhino bullets and it makes me want to try some. Has anyone purchased them from the US and if so how? I emailed the company and got a quick reply saying to tell him what I wanted so he could work out freight, I told and he never replied

I would bet that they require a bulk order if shipping to the USA. I'd love to try out some 380 gr loads. Especially now that Northfork is going out of business.

 

[BRICKBURN]

............... why are PH's sticking to large caliber rifles? .........

1. Because PH's are cheap bastards.
2. PH's only buy what is in the closest store.
3. Many PH's never heard that a 375 H&H has knocked down more (one shot) Elephants than any other caliber.
4. PH's read what some muppet newspaper man decided to scribble some hyperbole about "enough gun" and they assumed bigger is always better.

 

[IvW]

IvW always talks about the rhino bullets and it makes me want to try some. Has anyone purchased them from the US and if so how? I emailed the company and got a quick reply saying to tell him what I wanted so he could work out freight, I told and he never replied

PM me your private details and I will talk to him, I know him well and helped with testing and development of the 340 and 380 gr bullets. Maybe we can get something sorted out for you.

 

[IvW]

1. Because PH's are cheap bastards.
2. PH's only buy what is in the closest store.
3. Many PH's never heard that a 375 H&H has knocked down more (one shot) Elephants than any other caliber.
4. PH's read what some muppet newspaper man decided to scribble some hyperbole about "enough gun" and they assumed bigger is always better.

1. Well some are...but don't skimp on the bullets or you may not be around to tel the story...
2. For plains game I guess and in Zim you may not have much of a choice...Hornady crap comes to mind.....
3. True but more so by clients in today's world than experienced DG PH's, I do not know of any experienced old time PH that uses a 375 H&H as backup rifle on Cape Buffalo or Elephant...
4. Or some are just ignorant....

I ques there is some truth in the saying "There is no substitute for experience"

Hunt enough DG and be in a position where you need to sort the crap out enough times when the paw paw hits the fan and you will very quickly realize what works and what does not....especially when you have to drop one of these boys at feet and not yards....the last thing I want in my hands is a 375 H&H loaded with a 235gr TSX @ 2750 fps that I can assure you....

 

[Ridgewalker]

I emailed with Rhino maybe a year ago now and they were looking for a US distribution. Guess they haven’t found one yet.

 

[IdaRam]

bill hober told me to drive his swift bullets as hard as possible for best effect.
I have never driven them at warp speed so cannot comment further than the advice.
in my mind, barnesx would have been even better for being fail safe, but the above might suggest otherwise.
barnes appears to have, despite my belief, an upper velocity limit.
I must confess to using barnes originals in my 7mmstw for this reason, and cannot report any unexplained problems.
they shoot well enough and I still have a few hundred, so might never get to try the newer triple shock.
the barnes have made the stw into a gun for bigger game, and for small stuff nosler partitions are more suitable.
bruce.

Hi Bruce, interesting conversation regarding Swift A-Frames. I've been given the same recommendation. A couple years ago I had a great opportunity to test the theory of driving an A-Frame past what might be their "normal" velocity envelope while hunting Pronghorn Antelope. And while this is a test of only 2 individual bullets of the same caliber and weight, I suspect results might be similar on other calibers and weights until you get up into the real "heavy weight" categories.
Here is the result. While I don't consider the first one a failure (the result was a bang-flop and the projectile held together and retained a respectable percentage of weight) it is one example of a bullet that had an impact velocity beyond what would probably be considered optimum and the result on bullet expansion. This may serve as a good example of what the result may be on bullets used for DG that are driven beyond their working envelope. No issue at all on animals like Pronghorn. In fact, results like this may be just fine and dandy on PG. Not so much on DG.
Just a sample size of two, so not very scientific, but folks can take from it what they will.

Both animals were shot under very similar field circumstances, just different distance. Both were frontal chest shots with the animal facing the shooter. Obviously neither bullet exited the animal.

7mm 175gr A-Frame
Pronghorn Antelope - Frontal chest shot, facing shooter
Range - 84 yards
Muzzle Velocity 3100 fps
Impact Velocity - 2950 fps
Retained Weight - 154 gr
Expanded Diameter - .700”

Pretty Flat for an A-Frame but still intact

7mm 175 gr A-Frame
Pronghorn Antelope - Frontal chest shot, facing shooter
Range - 293 yards
Muzzle Velocity -3100 fps
Impact Velocity - 2540 fps
Retained Weight - 173.3 gr
Expanded Diameter - .610”

More of what you would expect from an A-Frame

The difference between the two being 410 fps impact velocity.

 

[TOBY458]

PM me your private details and I will talk to him, I know him well and helped with testing and development of the 340 and 380 gr bullets. Maybe we can get something sorted out for you.

Please let us all know what you find out.