"Lighter Politics" Humour

[mdwest]

 

[Altitude sickness]

Mdwest, what are your feelings with some of the people on Trumps personal detail?
When they stood him up he was clearly taller and larger than any of them. How would they possibly have gotten him off the X if he was incapacitated.

Should the details body size be tailored to the size of the Principal ?

 

[mdwest]

 

[Ridge Runner]

Mdwest, what are your feelings with some of the people on Trumps personal detail?
When they stood him up he was clearly taller and larger than any of them. How would they possibly have gotten him off the X if he was incapacitated.

Should the details body size be tailored to the size of the Principal ?

.....short ones cover the lower extremities, the tall ones cover the upper extremities, and when necessary the shorter ones jump up and down timing their jumps so they can be effective in stopping a bullet(s) from hitting the intended target.

 

[mdwest]

Mdwest, what are your feelings with some of the people on Trumps personal detail?
When they stood him up he was clearly taller and larger than any of them. How would they possibly have gotten him off the X if he was incapacitated.

Should the details body size be tailored to the size of the Principal ?

I think the height issue some people are trying to make is a bit of a red herring.. the bigger challenge is the training and competency issue..

If performed correctly, when the walking formation (close protection team) collapses on the protectee, he's going to pretty much be wadded up into a ball, forced into a crouched position, and moved in a very controlled fashion with a human wall around him on all sides with quite a bit of coverage above as well.. while a 5'4" agent might not be able to help much with top cover, they can certainly fill in a hole on the protective ring.. and... when a detail is large enough, theres usually an agent in the front and an agent in the rear of this formation that are not part of the human wall, the are guiding all the guys with their heads down, and also providing security while the team moves (guns out, prepared to engage any threat encountered in the movement.. a shorter statured agent could easily fill that role within the close protection team..

Women absolutely have a place in close protection... there are things they can do that men frankly cant (or shouldnt)... something as simple as clearing a womans bathroom.. or looking inconspicuous when protecting FLOTUS or a young daughter... etc... or on a counter surveillance mission you might deploy a pair of non descript agents.. one male and one female.. that just look like a couple having a nice afternoon in a park (when they are really looking for threats or conducting intelligence gathering, or any of another range of mission sets as well.. )..

When I was running the unit I had years ago, I had a couple of women assigned (2 out of a total of 16 people).. at times I wished I had a few more... they can play a vital role in a number of different ways..

Neither of the ladies that worked for me were particularly big.. both I'd guess were pretty average in height.. maybe about 5'6".. but both were also world class athletes.. one was a nationally competitive body builder that could out bench press several of my guys.. the other had played lacrosse in college and was an avid runner.. and was one of the best advance agents I ever had work for me (super detail oriented.. nothing ever slipped past her... and she was able to deliver very clear and concise reports that let me and others know exactly what we were dealing with, and how she recommended we deal with it long before we ever arrived at a venue)..

I never had a problem with either of them being part of the close protection formation whenever those duties fell upon them... they were well trained.. good at what they did, and knew exactly what their role was and how to do it..

Of greater concern to me about the "Melissa" agent everyone keeps critiquing is she appears to not be all that fit... that would bother me more than her height... granted, its very hard to tell.. she is wearing a suit that isnt cut very well to her frame, she appears to be wearing armor under her shirt, etc..etc.. maybe she is a power lifter and I just cant see it..

But being in that inner circle, if the feces hits the oscillator, requires quite a bit of physicality.. youre going to need to get a large, heavy object (the protectee) balled up in an instant, get that balled up large, heavy object moving as quickly as humanly possible, while maintaining an air tight formation.. and then move that object for a pretty good distance (its not like the motorcade is sitting 20 yards away or can always be moved to the protectee.. and you might find that the motorcade isnt accessible and you have to move to a location where you can shelter in place until extraction can happen, etc..etc..)... if youre not physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted after responding to an "attack on principal"... you didnt do your job very well... even if the entire thing only lasts a couple of minutes..

if youre not mentally, physically, and emotionally ready for an AOP.. you really shouldnt be in a position to have to deal with one..

 

[C.W. Richter]

.....short ones cover the lower extremities, the tall ones cover the upper extremities, and when necessary the shorter ones jump up and down timing their jumps so they can be effective in stopping a bullet(s) from hitting the intended target.

like the reverse of shooting at a charging buffalo's head! Meal Team Six jumps! i like it.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Another question for you Mdwest. Do they really believe a “meat shield” would work. We discuss on this very forum about 50-60” of penetration from a proper bullet. We know most attempts are from untrained mentally disturbed people.


But what if they ever ran into somebody with a proper rifle and bullet?

Why wouldn’t they have a portable ballistic barrier near by to move him under or behind

 

[mdwest]

Another question for you Mdwest. Do they really believe a “meat shield” would work. We discuss on this very forum about 50-60” of penetration from a proper bullet. We know most attempts are from untrained mentally disturbed people.


But what if they ever ran into somebody with a proper rifle and bullet?

Why wouldn’t they have a portable ballistic barrier near by to move him under or behind

it "depends"

the meat shield isnt just cover (against something like a pistol or shotgun or 556 round).. its also concealment..

sure you can shoot through whatever is in between you and your target.. but concealing the target makes it a whole lot harder to hit vitals..

its also about controlling the principal.. think about it like a human dog pile.. what you dont want in a situation like that is the protectee hauling ass and everyone trying to catch up to him or find him.. or moving in a direction that is NOT where you want/need him to go.. an attack (whether its a shooting incident, or a simply pie to the face.. or anything else) puts untrained people into fight or flight mode.. it gets inside their OODA loop and has them doing shit you dont want them to do... what you want is for that human being to become an object that moves where you want it to move, when you want it to move, and how you want it to move.. and be completely compliant about it (not something most people that are in a position to be afforded a protective detail are used to doing.. letting someone or something else dictate EVERYTHING for a little while).. .

There typically are ballistic barriers nearby.. more often than not when youre talking a POTUS level protectee, the podium itself is a ballistic barrier.. there will be someone nearby (out of sight) with a ballistic shield most likely... there are agents in the immediate are (like the CAT team guys) that are wearing lvl 4 plates that will position themselves in between threats and the protectee, etc..etc.. usually someone has a blast blanket in the immediate area that can be deployed...

In this case you can hear the radio chatter... the close protection team confirms "hawkeye" (the snipers) have eliminated the threat... so they make the decision to start moving him... until hawkeye confirms the threat is eliminated they had pushed him to the ground and dog piled him, putting several armor covered bodies all over and around him, behind the podium...

Its a judgement call on the team leaders part once they start moving him... maybe there is a another threat out there.. maybe its a complex ambush.. maybe its not... so.. do you get the hell out of there at the first moment its possible to move the boss? or do you wait for a shield or a blanket to be brought up first?

The TL made the call to immediately start moving... which thankfully was the right call in this case..

 

[mdwest]

what you want is for that human being to become an object that moves where you want it to move, when you want it to move, and how you want it to move.. and be completely compliant about it (not something most people that are in a position to be afforded a protective detail are used to doing.. letting someone or something else dictate EVERYTHING for a little while).. .

thought I should expand on this...

most protective details.. to include some of the most high profile in the world.. simply dont have the resources the USSS has.. where the USSS uses a standard 5 man "diamond" walking formation quite a bit, and then has additional satellite agents that are also part of the close protection team, you'd be hard pressed many protective details that even have 5 agents on duty at any given time... and when one of those agents is assigned to the motorcade, one is on the advance, etc.. etc.. you might be lucky if only 2 agents are in the immediate proximity of the principal at any given moment.. often times its just 1 (his PSO / Personal Security Officer)...

In those situations an agent will use (assuming they are property trained) control techniques that can be outright painful to the protectee in the event of an attack... one of the techniques we used to train was to step between the protectee and an attacker using the strong hand to draw a weapon or to attack an attacker however was appropriate, while simultaneously grabbing the protectee with the off hand in a very firm wrist lock to keep them from moving to a position where they could be more easily engaged..

we also trained to grab them by their belts, spin and push them to the ground, and then stand over them while engaging an attacker..

None of it is optimum.. you do the best you can with the resources you have available..

Which is why the intelligence side of an operation is equally, if not more important than the protection side.. ultimately the goal is to never expose your principal to an attack.. if you know WHO is out there, WHAT they intend on doing, HOW they intend on doing it, and WHERE they intend on doing it.. you can bring the right tools to the fight.. or avoid the fight all together..

Its when the intelligence side fails that you get screwed and have to make judgement calls that you pray are right when you have to make them..

 

[Altitude sickness]

It’s great to have this level of knowledge here to get these questions answered

 

[Ridge Runner]

Another question for you Mdwest.
Why wouldn’t they have a portable ballistic barrier near by to move him under or behind

Before shoots rang out.
Since Trump is: a former President; Speaking in an open air event; and Obviously set to be the Republican Party nominee.

I was looking at and wondering why there wasn't protective shields on or beside the podium.

This setup was definitely an intentional amateur hour for the USSS. Simply because they are claiming they were in charge. (?). Guess they couldn't claim, play the "blame game", they (USSS) where actually under the command and control of the local police department.

 

[mdwest]

I was looking at and wondering why there wasn't protective shields on or beside the podium.

Lots of things can influence that decision being made..

The protectee or their senior staff may object to a "hard" security presence... they concern themselves with the "optics" of the situation and the way things "look"... its then up to the protective detail to figure out how they are going to deal with it...

The intelligence reports, threat assessments, and the advance reports are also going to have a huge influence on what the security plan looks like... if they had no knowledge or understanding of the probability of a stand off rifle attack (theres always a possibility.. but there might not have been an alert or a concern about a probability).. thats going to influence what your security posture looks like...

Then there is the administrative side of the house.. reportedly the team on the ground and its leadership had been asking USSS for additional resources and assets (both people and materials) for quite a while.. and kept getting denied.. we dont know what tools they had at their disposal... Im sure there was a shield around there somewhere.. but how many were available and how many people know how to use them are available (there is a right and a wrong way to deploy a shield.. its not rocket science.. but its relatively valueless if you dont know what youre doing)... based on that, there very possibly could have been a decision made to position resources they had somewhere else where they thought there could be a greater threat (for example.. if they planned on having a receiving line at the end of his speech where he would go to the crowd, shake hands, speak to people, etc.. it might have been positioned somewhere closer to where that was going to take place... or if they identified a soft spot somewhere in the transition point between the motorcade and the "green room" / staging area at the venue.. etc.. they might have staged it there..

I could probably come up with a half dozen other possibilities.. but at the end of the day, it was all part of the security plan that was built (a plan for an event like this is a no shit, incredibly robust document, that can be 50+ pages deep... ive seen some that are hundreds of pages... that addresses quite literally everything they think might could happen.... I'd be willing to bet there were at least a couple of pages dedicated to counter sniper and stand off attacks)... and that security plan is built around the advance report, intelligence reports, and security assessments of the principle, the staff, the venue, the crowd, etc..etc..etc..

 

[jpr9954]

 

[jpr9954]

 

[Ridge Runner]

Lots of things can influence that decision being made..

The protectee or their senior staff may object to a "hard" security presence... they concern themselves with the "optics" of the situation and the way things "look"... its then up to the protective detail to figure out how they are going to deal with it...

The intelligence reports, threat assessments, and the advance reports are also going to have a huge influence on what the security plan looks like... if they had no knowledge or understanding of the probability of a stand off rifle attack (theres always a possibility.. but there might not have been an alert or a concern about a probability).. thats going to influence what your security posture looks like...

Then there is the administrative side of the house.. reportedly the team on the ground and its leadership had been asking USSS for additional resources and assets (both people and materials) for quite a while.. and kept getting denied.. we dont know what tools they had at their disposal... Im sure there was a shield around there somewhere.. but how many were available and how many people know how to use them are available (there is a right and a wrong way to deploy a shield.. its not rocket science.. but its relatively valueless if you dont know what youre doing)... based on that, there very possibly could have been a decision made to position resources they had somewhere else where they thought there could be a greater threat (for example.. if they planned on having a receiving line at the end of his speech where he would go to the crowd, shake hands, speak to people, etc.. it might have been positioned somewhere closer to where that was going to take place... or if they identified a soft spot somewhere in the transition point between the motorcade and the "green room" / staging area at the venue.. etc.. they might have staged it there..

I could probably come up with a half dozen other possibilities.. but at the end of the day, it was all part of the security plan that was built (a plan for an event like this is a no shit, incredibly robust document, that can be 50+ pages deep... ive seen some that are hundreds of pages... that addresses quite literally everything they think might could happen.... I'd be willing to bet there were at least a couple of pages dedicated to counter sniper and stand off attacks)... and that security plan is built around the advance report, intelligence reports, and security assessments of the principle, the staff, the venue, the crowd, etc..etc..etc..

If it's okay with you, @mdwest and @Altitude sickness, I am offering we cease and desist here and forward further such discussions to the Politics thread. As we seem to be starting to derail/hijack the original OP's intention here of being humorous, "Lighter Pokitics".

 

[Datchew]

Shamelessly nicked from elsewhere