Let’s be honest….accuracy off the sticks

[CBeck]

Love an FJ cruiser. Shoulda never let mine go.
Think I’ll buy another.

Agree and I’ve been looking for one as well, but they are quite pricey on the used market. May just have to stick with the old 4Runner….

 

[Flipper Dude]

That’s a beauty. What model year? Stick?

 

[CBeck]

That’s a beauty. What model year? Stick?

Thank you sir! ‘94, 5 speed, last year built in Japan, with the dreaded 3L V6… It doesn’t know it’s supposed to have a head gasket problem. Much like our fabled Internet snipers, in my opinion, a problem that has been greatly exaggerated.

 

[Houston Bill]

Well, I ordered a pair of quad sticks. I’m looking forward to their arrival and testing!

I think you will like them. For many years I used various tripods for hunting out west and used the typical African tripod that the pH's in Africa that I hundred with had. A few years ago while hunting in Africa PH Jacques Spamer of JKO Safaris he had a pair of the Viper Flex quad sticks so I tried them. And for me I was able to get way more steady. So I bought a pair for myself. With practice I have now been able to get very confident at shots on game up to 300 yards with a scoped bolt action rifle and 100+ yards with a red dot mounted on my doubles. I am also confident that with more practice I could probably extend my confidence range with scoped bolt action rifles.

There may be some folks that still prefer the tripod because they can be quicker to mount and set up with the rifle and feel that easier lateral motion is a benefit. But for me the fact that I can get way more steady with quad sticks trumps the fact that I might take a second or 2 longer to get fully set up for the shot and with that steadiness I am far less likely to need to make running lateral moving shots at potentially wounded game.

 

[CBeck]

I think you will like them. For many years I used various tripods for hunting out west and used the typical African tripod that the pH's in Africa that I hundred with had. A few years ago while hunting in Africa PH Jacques Spamer of JKO Safaris he had a pair of the Viper Flex quad sticks so I tried them. And for me I was able to get way more steady. So I bought a pair for myself. With practice I have now been able to get very confident at shots on game up to 300 yards with a scoped bolt action rifle and 100+ yards with a red dot mounted on my doubles. I am also confident that with more practice I could probably extend my confidence range with scoped bolt action rifles.

There may be some folks that still prefer the tripod because they can be quicker to mount and set up with the rifle and feel that easier lateral motion is a benefit. But for me the fact that I can get way more steady with quad sticks trumps the fact that I might take a second or 2 longer to get fully set up for the shot and with that steadiness I am far less likely to need to make running lateral moving shots at potentially wounded game.

Thank you for the additional insight. I feel I may agree once I’ve had time to use them.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Love an FJ cruiser. Shoulda never let mine go.
Think I’ll buy another.

Thx Mate. The FJ was the closest thing that I could find to my PH's bad-ass V8 Diesel 6-spd Land Cruiser. They are great vehicles and I liked it far better than the 4cyl turbo Tacoma or the new Land Cruiser. I added the sticker in the back window just to punk my Jeep driving hunting buddies, lol.

 

[skydiver386]

In my experience, skill shooting from sticks is an extension of basic fundamentals.

Time spent in the standing, kneeling, sitting and prone will pay off in better hunting accuracy. After you have a good grasp of basic fundamentals, adding practice with a shooting sling, bipods, sticks, etc., will be much improved.

Practice in fundamentals is something even the best professional athletes and musician's do on a regular basis.

Attending an Appleseed Shoot or other shooting school where basics are covered is always time well spent.

 

[Green Chile]

This is a great thread! Prior to my first trip to Africa, I was doing more bench rest shooting than hunting or offhand shooting. As a Kid all of my shooting was offhand and I was good at it. But, shooting skill is a perishable skill and without regular practice we lose some of the edge. Over the last dozen or so years, I have been hunting deer and squirrels with a monopod and find it to be a game changer. It easily doubled my effective range with both the 270 Mauser and the 22lr.

For Africa, I got tripod sticks and began practice. I was terrible at it, lol. at 200y I was lucky to hit a pie plate. My two Safari rifles were as you said about 1-1.25" for the 308 and about 1.5-2" at 100y for the 375. Since I was not expecting to shoot past 300y and really planning to keep shots inside 200-225y (Limpopo).

Still, 10" groups at 200y seemed to me to be inadequate. I went on a quest to improve. I found that my 375 had a huge amount of coper fouling in the last 8" of the bbl. After a concentrated cleaning effort I was able to use some precision rifle cleaning techniques to polish out most of that fouling. The groups shrank to sub 1" at 100y. Better. Same treatment on the 308 did not yield much as it was already more accurate and less fouled. I tested several ammo options and settled on 180g Fusions for the 308 since my rifle failed to stabilize the 180g A-Frames. I settled on 300g TSX for the big gun. But it shot the A-Frames equally well. I practiced with both about every two weeks at the range at 200y and 300y off sticks. My groups off sticks are easily 2-3x larger at 200y than off bench and 7-8" at 300y but more football oblong in shape.

Since shooting 375HH factory ammo every day gets pricey, I set up a 35y range in my yard where I would shoot 10 shots of 22lr off sticks with my suppressed squirrel rifle. My tgt was 1/2" Dum Dum suckers planted in a large earth berm in my pine grove near the garage. This shot is ballistically similar to shooting 175y off sticks with the 308 at a 2-3" tgt. After lots of practice, I could hit and break all five Dum Dums with only 10 shots and on a good day hit all five with 5-6 shots. I did notice that my performance varied from day to day. It helped me to build the muscle memory to quickly mount the sticks and send the shot. That practice did translate to better on stick shooting with the big guns as well. I don't recall ever shooting better than 3" groups with the 308 at 200y and 3-4" with the 375. So, for me whatever groups I could do on a bench I expect those to be 2x larger off sticks.

So, results? The deer season prior to my Safari, I hunted with the 375 just to get field time with it. I had a 40y chip shot on a nice 8pt that I missed because the little 1.5-4x Leupold was inadequate in low light. I did bear down and kill the deer at 60y with the 2nd shot off sticks. An under whelming performance. That led me to replace the scope with a much better 1-6x Z6i with illuminated red dot. I used that rig in Africa to take a huge Blue Wildebeest at 180y off sticks and I was as steady and confident on that shat as any I have ever taking off the sticks. I took an Impala at 160y off sticks with the 308 as well. That being the longest shot with the 308 from the sticks. I took a Gemsbok at 202y but it was not from the sticks since I had a better rest available from my position that time.

Sticks are not as solid as a bench but better than offhand in my opinion. Practice with the rimfire is a proven method to improve one's performance. If you have a rimfire that is similar in layout and weight to your hunting rifles, that is a plus. Finally, for this year's hunt, I upgraded both rifles to pieces capable of 1/2 moa at 100y with my chosen factory ammo. That should improve my on stick groups proportionately. I am now finished with the rifle/ammo/dope verification phase of my hunt prep. Took a nice 10pt buck off sticks last fall with my PG gun. 125y, one shot and flop. Shot was a little high but I did not have time to range it. Been hunting coyotes off sticks but they have not been cooperating.

Just getting into my on stick practice with both the hunting rifles and the rimfire. It is a process but is much of the fun of planning a big hunt.

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Bravo for diagnosing and addressing several things over time. Getting more time and seeing the results can build proper confidence. It reminds me of a national champion bullseye pistol shooter from the AMU who was my shooting mentor. He would say you can't beat the wobble but you can understand it better.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Bravo for diagnosing and addressing several things over time. Getting more time and seeing the results can build proper confidence. It reminds me of a national champion bullseye pistol shooter from the AMU who was my shooting mentor. He would say you can't beat the wobble but you can understand it better.

Thx - I too am a former National Champion precision rifle competitor. Most of those skills do not translate all that well to hunting but learning to break down the variables that affect your precision and accuracy (not the same things) and then control/eliminate what you can and minimize those that you cannot fully control will serve you well. There is a great book that a University rifle team coach that I know recommended called the "Bullseye" mindset. It has tons of good shooting techniques to apply to various shooting sports.

 

[shootist~]

I transitioned from tripod to quad sticks last fall. Bought the same brand my Nilgai outfitter and guide use in South Texas (ViperFlex). I used one of their sets last month and felt very comfotable with the crosshair on a good bull at 200 yards. (He was moving and I not get the OK to shoot that one however.)

The Quads easily add 100 yards to where I feel comfortable at the range. 325 yards is very doable - at least in practice - and 225 almost feels like a chip shot.

Three MOA for tripod sticks improving to about Two MOA from the Quads as @One Day... suggests,

seems about right. Assuming regular practice.

However, if one forgets to hold over (or dial) at distance - as one of the shots below shows, the quad sticks won't make up for it.

The gong is 18" square.

 

[3chunter]

I shot a bedded wounded gemsbok. Laying behind a termite mound at 412 yards off quad sticks. First shot clipped top of the mound, second went right over the mound and hit the gemsbok in the shoulder. Couldn’t see anything but his horns. Had to approximate how he was bedded and shot over termite mound and through the bush.

 

[Sideshow]

Found this and thought it might help for those in the market.