Let’s be honest….accuracy off the sticks

[Flipper Dude]

Lack of lateral movement on quad sticks is a non issue. If it’s moving faster than you can keep up, you ain’t shooting it anyway. Let it go. There will be another one this afternoon or tomorrow or two days from now. It’s freaking Africa.

 

[Cannonball]

I am a right handed shooter and if I can rest my right elbow on something solid it is a game changer as far as accuracy off the sticks. That little bit of steadiness takes out all the movement. I am surprised I don’t hear, see or read about others looking for that extra resting point

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I hang my steel targets on a sign post with bolt holes the hole length. I use #9 wire to hang the plates as it is cheap and easy to replace when, not if, I shoot the chain.

 

[375Fox]

PH/tracker carries the sticks. PH sets sticks up and sometimes even puts the rifle on the sticks. Shooting off sticks isn't rocket science. My rifle range is not on the side of a steep mountain or on top of a broken rock pile or in a thorn thicket. I guess I could practice moving sticks around on the lawn at my firing range but I don't see how that would help a whole lot. The major issue I (and others) have with quad sticks is readjusting them for moving game. With tripod sticks I can move myself to get back on target. With quads I need to pick up the sticks with gun still in the rack and reset the legs. Lifting the legs over/around rocks, brush, logs, etc. or resetting them on steep ground can be complicated. In any event, resetting the sticks, however complicated or not, requires movement which can alert the quarry.

I have a different experience with quad sticks. Sorry you can't respect that. Oh well. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

You’d need to look very hard to find the individuals that respect your opinion on this forum. Your opinion on quad sticks is based on zero practice before and after your hunt and a very limited experience with them in the field.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am a right handed shooter and if I can rest my right elbow on something solid it is a game changer as far as accuracy off the sticks. That little bit of steadiness takes out all the movement. I am surprised I don’t hear, see or read about others looking for that extra resting point

That worked when shooting my first buffalo off the sticks at 100 meters. I couldn't settle with a late afternoon sidewind. PH came up and steadied my right arm and I shot her through the heart.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You’d need to look very hard to find the individuals that respect your opinion on this forum. Your opinion on quad sticks is based on zero practice before and after your hunt and a very limited experience with them in the field.

Yeah, sure. Over thirty animals taken in Africa is a bit more than "limited experience." Anyone with significant experience shooting and hunting in North America (or anyplace else in the world) will do just fine shooting with sticks in Africa. The basics of shooting correctly apply everywhere.

 

[Trogon]

Love the quad sticks. Previously shot all of my WT deer out of treestands and was not really prepared for spot and stalk. Had to adopt a fast-learning curve using them on my first trip to Eastern Cape SA (had practiced using tripods such as African Sporting Creations and Primos Triggersticks prior to my first trip). I prefer quad sticks over tripods if available. A solid rifle set up (good rifle fit, trigger and scope) makes this easier.
The primary difficulty I've had using quad sticks has been on steeper hills making side shots (perpendicular) or on stoney substrate. Excellent for grass/soil/sand conditions.
I've tried to like the Primos Triggerstick and would try them more if the pan head tension could be increased. If anyone has a thought for this I'd love to hear about it.
Last trip to EC was mainly a cull hunt for impala/ springbuck/ warthogs with a few kudu and waterbuck cows and a common duiker. Met fellow Senior AH forum member @Hogpatrol there while he was doing his hunt. Honestly a super knowledgeable rifle guy and just an enjoyable guy across the board. His kit was exceptional and he gave me the opportunity a number of times to try it in the field. Worked great on quad sticks!

 

[375Fox]

Yeah, sure. Over thirty animals taken in Africa is a bit more than "limited experience." Anyone with significant experience shooting and hunting in North America (or anyplace else in the world) will do just fine shooting with sticks in Africa. The basics of shooting correctly apply everywhere.

All done with one outfitter in one small region and only a handful (if any?) taken from quad sticks. I don’t have a problem saying you prefer a tripod but you make up claims about quad sticks because you made no attempt to learn to use them properly or recognize there are different models. You make that clear every time you complain about the perceived disadvantages. You also fail to recognize Africa is a huge continent. You’ve been saying the same thing since you joined this forum.

 

[WAB]

Making your own steel plates stands





This is really easy, and not too expensive.

The mistake is to set all the plates on one stand at the same distance.

You can start cheaply with one set of plates from Amazon:

• 3" at 100 yds (3 MOA shot)
• 4" at 150 yds (2.7 MOA shot)
• 5" at 200 (2.5 MOA shot)
• 6" at 250 yds (2.4 MOA shot)
• 8" at 300 (2.7 MOA shot)

View attachment 667378

Do not waste your time making wood stands, they will not survive. Neither will the stands commercially available.

After a couple trial & error, I designed my own stands, that I make from plumbing supplies. They are foldable and indestructible. All the parts are available at Home Depot.

View attachment 667385

View attachment 667386

I add a ring on the horizontal beam to be able to slide an anti-theft cable when I transport them in the bed of the truck.

You can always, later, buy individual 10" or 12" plates if you want to shoot at longer range or extend your course.

I personally use 1 stand with 4" 3" and 2" 'plates' for 100 yds .22 LR practice, and up to 8 stands with 2 x 6", 2 x 8", 2 x 10", 2 x 12" plates for centerfire practice.

View attachment 667389

View attachment 667390

I could not find a 2" 'plate', so I had to make my own

View attachment 667391

I hope this helps

Nice stand. I use tire rubber to hang the plates. Chains inevitably get hit. Don’t forget to hang with an offset so your bullets go to ground.

I have steel at one, two and three hundred from my covered shooting position/bench. I also have a large steel plate hung that can be shot from field positions from one to seven hundred. You learn a lot just randomly picking a shooting position.

I paint my large plates black and then paint a small white dot for an aiming point. I am very fortunate to have this setup right out the back door. I burn a lot of powder!

 

[Sabre]

Another question on the quad stick users….let me see how to ask this….on flat ground I get it. You set the back and front height and slight rocking forward or back changes elevation slightly.

But is it not figity to adjust in more varied terrain. Seems it would either make you crouch or stand on tip toes. I know I must be missing something….?

So, you are correct that rocking back and forth you can aim higher or lower. However, you are also able to quickly adjust the height by how far the feet are spread out. Spreading them out lowers the height and putting them closer together raises the height.

It is also fairly easy to pan left or right further distances by using your left hand and grabbing one leg of the sticks, slightly lifting and relocating the leg you have lifted. It seems like this will all be more difficult than it is, but it really did not take me long to get used to it and really like using them.

Again, as I said in a previous comment though, it will not be as easy to adjust left and right as it is on a tripod or trigger stick type rest.

To me, the biggest hiccup in using the quad sticks is every once in a while if you are on slick terrain, like a slick rock without much grip or something, it might take an extra second or two to get the sticks stable. And when you are grabbing one leg of the sticks to move left and right on uneven terrain or with obstacles, you can sometimes go to move the sticks and bump them into something, or a leg drops down into a small depression or something you weren't expecting.

But those slight annoyances, for me, are very far outweighed by the extra stability you get by using them.

I also use and like trigger sticks, but I will pick and choose when to use each depending on the kind of hunt I am going to do. If it is very likely going to be 100 yards or less and the type of animal likes to move between spots quickly, I will use trigger sticks. If the shots will likely be over 100 yards and the animal frequently likes to slowly graze, then I would choose the quad sticks.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

All done with one outfitter in one small region and only a handful (if any?) taken from quad sticks. I don’t have a problem saying you prefer a tripod but you make up claims about quad sticks because you made no attempt to learn to use them properly or recognize there are different models. You make that clear every time you complain about the perceived disadvantages. You also fail to recognize Africa is a huge continent. You’ve been saying the same thing since you joined this forum.

It appears your participation on this forum is some kind of desparate competition for credibility. Attempting to belittle others' credibility only depreciates your own. It gets old. This forum has more useful and honorable functions. Save judgement for your morning shaves when you have to look in the mirror. But don't forget to put on sunglasses. The glow could damage your retinas.

 

[Green Chile]

I am a right handed shooter and if I can rest my right elbow on something solid it is a game changer as far as accuracy off the sticks. That little bit of steadiness takes out all the movement. I am surprised I don’t hear, see or read about others looking for that extra resting point

This is where your PH can help. He will be left or right of you to observe the shot and you can use that to steady yourself. I've also done that on sitting or kneeling shots where I wanted to steady my back to keep from any movement. It's subtle how you can get a little movement in something like a kneeling position.

 

[bowjijohn]

Shooting off sticks is very common here in the UK

Something that is practiced regularly

Quads are by far the most stable

Twin sticks, common in Africa are harder to hold steady as the rifle is only supported up front

A hunter can significantly improve stability from the addition of a rear support

If you (or a tracker) carries a walking stick, that can provide rear support

Alternatively..

If you have a hunting buddy, have him stand next to you, grab his upper sleeve with your left hand (right handed shooter) and that rear support is immediately improved

Quads on uneven ground are not too much of an issue as there are only two points on the ground

Tracking or lateral adjustment of aim requires pivoting on one of those two points - practice makes this a doddle

Height adjustment, dealing with sloping ground is a simple matter of rocking back or forward - spread those legs !

(Didn’t think I’d say that on a hunting forum)

Blaser quad sticks allow some lateral swivel off the front support- useful but not essential

Hours and hours of off hand practice is a real confidence boost

Knowing that you can hold a target at 100m without support if you have to, makes for a confident rifleman

Just some thoughts

J

 

[TnKen]

I used the quad sticks last year and liked them much better than a tripod (trigger sticks). The only real movement to contend with is the vertical axis, which is much less than with a tripod. I liked them quad sticks so much I bought a set to use for western hunting. I always used a bipod ,which gives a rock steady rest in the prone, but required finding the right set up. My hunting partners took two elk this year off my sticks that I set up for them, just like my PH did for me.

 

[Denvir Tire]

It appears your participation on this forum is some kind of desparate competition for credibility. Attempting to belittle others' credibility only depreciates your own. It gets old. This forum has more useful and honorable functions. Save judgement for your morning shaves when you have to look in the mirror. But don't forget to put on sunglasses. The glow could damage your retinas.

This tone deaf post is the very definition of the, "Pot Calling The Kettle Black".

 

[CBeck]

Well, I ordered a pair of quad sticks. I’m looking forward to their arrival and testing!

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I see a lot of hunters practicing before their trips and stressing immensely over their group size. I think a lot of the nervousness and worry is because of Internet snipers.

I practice shooting at a silhouette that has a 6 inch center cut out. On my range at the house which is about 120 yards where my tripod sticks are set up, I’m good for 8 or 9 out of 10 inside that 6 inch inch steel. The others land within 8 inches typically… 4 inches from the bull’s-eye.

I see a lot of guys claiming they are shooting tiny groups at 100, 200, 300 yards off the sticks.

Now the way I see it a good rifle for hunting purposes is shooting a 1.5” group or thereabouts hopefully less at 100 yards off the bench with a solid rest.

That’s 3 inches at 200 yards off a bench with a solid rest… So, my question is this how many of you are actually shooting those kinds of groups off of sticks? Let’s be honest.

This is a great thread! Prior to my first trip to Africa, I was doing more bench rest shooting than hunting or offhand shooting. As a Kid all of my shooting was offhand and I was good at it. But, shooting skill is a perishable skill and without regular practice we lose some of the edge. Over the last dozen or so years, I have been hunting deer and squirrels with a monopod and find it to be a game changer. It easily doubled my effective range with both the 270 Mauser and the 22lr.

For Africa, I got tripod sticks and began practice. I was terrible at it, lol. at 200y I was lucky to hit a pie plate. My two Safari rifles were as you said about 1-1.25" for the 308 and about 1.5-2" at 100y for the 375. Since I was not expecting to shoot past 300y and really planning to keep shots inside 200-225y (Limpopo).

Still, 10" groups at 200y seemed to me to be inadequate. I went on a quest to improve. I found that my 375 had a huge amount of coper fouling in the last 8" of the bbl. After a concentrated cleaning effort I was able to use some precision rifle cleaning techniques to polish out most of that fouling. The groups shrank to sub 1" at 100y. Better. Same treatment on the 308 did not yield much as it was already more accurate and less fouled. I tested several ammo options and settled on 180g Fusions for the 308 since my rifle failed to stabilize the 180g A-Frames. I settled on 300g TSX for the big gun. But it shot the A-Frames equally well. I practiced with both about every two weeks at the range at 200y and 300y off sticks. My groups off sticks are easily 2-3x larger at 200y than off bench and 7-8" at 300y but more football oblong in shape.

Since shooting 375HH factory ammo every day gets pricey, I set up a 35y range in my yard where I would shoot 10 shots of 22lr off sticks with my suppressed squirrel rifle. My tgt was 1/2" Dum Dum suckers planted in a large earth berm in my pine grove near the garage. This shot is ballistically similar to shooting 175y off sticks with the 308 at a 2-3" tgt. After lots of practice, I could hit and break all five Dum Dums with only 10 shots and on a good day hit all five with 5-6 shots. I did notice that my performance varied from day to day. It helped me to build the muscle memory to quickly mount the sticks and send the shot. That practice did translate to better on stick shooting with the big guns as well. I don't recall ever shooting better than 3" groups with the 308 at 200y and 3-4" with the 375. So, for me whatever groups I could do on a bench I expect those to be 2x larger off sticks.

So, results? The deer season prior to my Safari, I hunted with the 375 just to get field time with it. I had a 40y chip shot on a nice 8pt that I missed because the little 1.5-4x Leupold was inadequate in low light. I did bear down and kill the deer at 60y with the 2nd shot off sticks. An under whelming performance. That led me to replace the scope with a much better 1-6x Z6i with illuminated red dot. I used that rig in Africa to take a huge Blue Wildebeest at 180y off sticks and I was as steady and confident on that shat as any I have ever taking off the sticks. I took an Impala at 160y off sticks with the 308 as well. That being the longest shot with the 308 from the sticks. I took a Gemsbok at 202y but it was not from the sticks since I had a better rest available from my position that time.

Sticks are not as solid as a bench but better than offhand in my opinion. Practice with the rimfire is a proven method to improve one's performance. If you have a rimfire that is similar in layout and weight to your hunting rifles, that is a plus. Finally, for this year's hunt, I upgraded both rifles to pieces capable of 1/2 moa at 100y with my chosen factory ammo. That should improve my on stick groups proportionately. I am now finished with the rifle/ammo/dope verification phase of my hunt prep. Took a nice 10pt buck off sticks last fall with my PG gun. 125y, one shot and flop. Shot was a little high but I did not have time to range it. Been hunting coyotes off sticks but they have not been cooperating.

Just getting into my on stick practice with both the hunting rifles and the rimfire. It is a process but is much of the fun of planning a big hunt.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Love an FJ cruiser. Shoulda never let mine go.
Think I’ll buy another.

 

[CBeck]

This is a great thread! Prior to my first trip to Africa, I was doing more bench rest shooting than hunting or offhand shooting. As a Kid all of my shooting was offhand and I was good at it. But, shooting skill is a perishable skill and without regular practice we lose some of the edge. Over the last dozen or so years, I have been hunting deer and squirrels with a monopod and find it to be a game changer. It easily doubled my effective range with both the 270 Mauser and the 22lr.

For Africa, I got tripod sticks and began practice. I was terrible at it, lol. at 200y I was lucky to hit a pie plate. My two Safari rifles were as you said about 1-1.25" for the 308 and about 1.5-2" at 100y for the 375. Since I was not expecting to shoot past 300y and really planning to keep shots inside 200-225y (Limpopo).

Still, 10" groups at 200y seemed to me to be inadequate. I went on a quest to improve. I found that my 375 had a huge amount of coper fouling in the last 8" of the bbl. After a concentrated cleaning effort I was able to use some precision rifle cleaning techniques to polish out most of that fouling. The groups shrank to sub 1" at 100y. Better. Same treatment on the 308 did not yield much as it was already more accurate and less fouled. I tested several ammo options and settled on 180g Fusions for the 308 since my rifle failed to stabilize the 180g A-Frames. I settled on 300g TSX for the big gun. But it shot the A-Frames equally well. I practiced with both about every two weeks at the range at 200y and 300y off sticks. My groups off sticks are easily 2-3x larger at 200y than off bench and 7-8" at 300y but more football oblong in shape.

Since shooting 375HH factory ammo every day gets pricey, I set up a 35y range in my yard where I would shoot 10 shots of 22lr off sticks with my suppressed squirrel rifle. My tgt was 1/2" Dum Dum suckers planted in a large earth berm in my pine grove near the garage. This shot is ballistically similar to shooting 175y off sticks with the 308 at a 2-3" tgt. After lots of practice, I could hit and break all five Dum Dums with only 10 shots and on a good day hit all five with 5-6 shots. I did notice that my performance varied from day to day. It helped me to build the muscle memory to quickly mount the sticks and send the shot. That practice did translate to better on stick shooting with the big guns as well. I don't recall ever shooting better than 3" groups with the 308 at 200y and 3-4" with the 375. So, for me whatever groups I could do on a bench I expect those to be 2x larger off sticks.

So, results? The deer season prior to my Safari, I hunted with the 375 just to get field time with it. I had a 40y chip shot on a nice 8pt that I missed because the little 1.5-4x Leupold was inadequate in low light. I did bear down and kill the deer at 60y with the 2nd shot off sticks. An under whelming performance. That led me to replace the scope with a much better 1-6x Z6i with illuminated red dot. I used that rig in Africa to take a huge Blue Wildebeest at 180y off sticks and I was as steady and confident on that shat as any I have ever taking off the sticks. I took an Impala at 160y off sticks with the 308 as well. That being the longest shot with the 308 from the sticks. I took a Gemsbok at 202y but it was not from the sticks since I had a better rest available from my position that time.

Sticks are not as solid as a bench but better than offhand in my opinion. Practice with the rimfire is a proven method to improve one's performance. If you have a rimfire that is similar in layout and weight to your hunting rifles, that is a plus. Finally, for this year's hunt, I upgraded both rifles to pieces capable of 1/2 moa at 100y with my chosen factory ammo. That should improve my on stick groups proportionately. I am now finished with the rifle/ammo/dope verification phase of my hunt prep. Took a nice 10pt buck off sticks last fall with my PG gun. 125y, one shot and flop. Shot was a little high but I did not have time to range it. Been hunting coyotes off sticks but they have not been cooperating.

Just getting into my on stick practice with both the hunting rifles and the rimfire. It is a process but is much of the fun of planning a big hunt.

View attachment 667455

Good post thanks for sharing your experience

 

[CBeck]

I Got a little range time this morning… I managed to shave 1 inch off of my group size immediately….. a really cool trick I discovered. Some of you may have heard of it… It’s called a tape measure. It turns out, the 6 inch cut out I have been shooting is really 5 inches. Lol

I did switch over to the 3 inch cut out and this is a 15 shot group. 9/15 well inside of 3 inches the other measured 4 1/4 at 120 yards off my Hammers tripod…. which if you’re looking for a tripod I would recommend. Packs really small, swivel yoke, rubber, and carbide feet tips, and mine’s been sitting outside for three years and still good as new.

No range session complete without the African Ranger barefoot boot….lol

Moral of the story I suppose keep at it… I’m actually shooting better than I thought. Maybe you should actually measure once in a while…..