Lee Factory Crimp Die for .470 NE

[Rare Breed]

Graeme continues on page 29 saying exactly what I said which if you want to crimp for DRs is okay but he sees no need which matches my experience. If someone thinks they have more experience with double rifles let them challenge this

 

[SStomcat]

I trust the first addition written by Graeme Wright more than anyone on this forum when it comes to double rifles. I refer everyone to pages 28 and 29 where in spite of @rook hawks ridiculing me which is fine Graeme says he does not crimp big bore double rifles. If people don’t own this book I highly recommend you buying it if you both own a DR and reload. There is no better out there and I follow it religiously regardless of any other opinions

Please could you share the pages here, I dont have a copy.

 

[AimSmall]

No challenges, but have experienced, not issues, but more consistent performance from crimped ammo in the doubles. More consistent speeds and better regulation.

W e should also observe all factory ammo is crimped.

It's always good to hear about the experiences of your friends...

 

[Rare Breed]

Please could you share the pages here, I dont have a copy.

I will gladly do

 

[SStomcat]

No experience, and therefore not questioning either line of thought but all standard factory ammo from Hornady, Norma, Swift, Federal come crimped.

 

[SStomcat]

I will gladly do

Thank you!

 

[Rare Breed]

No challenges, but have experienced, not issues, but more consistent performance from crimped ammo in the doubles. More consistent speeds and better regulation.

W e should also observe all factory ammo is crimped.

It's always good to hear about the experiences of your friends...

You are so correct!!! I guess being ridiculed after following what I consider to be the authority on DRs bothered me. Shame on me!!!

 

[AimSmall]

You are so correct!!! I guess being ridiculed after following what I consider to be the authority on DRs bothered me. Shame on me!!!

We are blessed to have such a good source of real life experience on subjects we are interested in! Thanks for participating!

 

[Rare Breed]

Please could you share the pages here, I dont have a copy.

 

[Wahoo]

I can’t see any reason not to crimp, unless I had to do it with bullet seating die. I have had less than satisfactory results.
The Lee factory crimp die is the only way to crimp in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing how easy it was to acquire the die.

No problem @Wyatt Smith. I’ve yet to hear of a negative to doing it other than the extra step which to me is negligible anyway- I’m slow at the whole process anyway. But if there is a reason not to I’m all ears.

As an aside I also purchased a Lee Factory Crimp Die for my .375 HH barrels - an even easier and cheaper process. I think I got it from Midway for about $40 ish. It’s their standard size die.

 

[Rare Breed]

No problem @Wyatt Smith. I’ve yet to hear of a negative to doing it other than the extra step which to me is negligible anyway- I’m slow at the whole process anyway. But if there is a reason not to I’m all ears.

As an aside I also purchased a Lee Factory Crimp Die for my .375 HH barrels - an even easier and cheaper process. I think I got it from Midway for about $40 ish. It’s their standard size die.

There is absolutely no negative whatsoever!!! Especially in a bolt action I would crimp!

 

[Wahoo]

There is absolutely no negative whatsoever!!! Especially in a bolt action I would crimp!

I appreciate the info and you sharing your experience which certainly sounds extensive compared to me. One of the main reasons I joined this forum was to learn from others varied experiences. I try not to take my self too seriously and remain open to differing opinions.

Admittedly it’s been a while since I’ve had to do Publication reviews/journal club but I submit one of my sources for my decision to identify as a crimper….

In the interest of good fun I see your Graeme Wright 1st Ed and I raise you page 44 of Graeme Wright 3rd edition.

 

[Rare Breed]

I appreciate the info and you sharing your experience which certainly sounds extensive compared to me. One of the main reasons I joined this forum was to learn from others varied experiences. I try not to take my self too seriously and remain open to differing opinions.

Admittedly it’s been a while since I’ve had to do Publication reviews/journal club but I submit one of my sources for my decision to identify as a crimper….

In the interest of good fun I see your Graeme Wright 1st Ed and I raise you page 44 of Graeme Wright 3rd edition.

After reading unleaded I missed it his opionion has not changed…crimp if you want no problem. For zdRs he continued not toss do i with zero problems

 

[Wahoo]

I suppose I was referring to his statement about the conditions in which he does choose to crimp-
When traveling and hunting overseas and specifically the number of times he’s hunted Africa “ all his loads were crimped”.

After all I’m going through all this in order to build well regulated loads for my .375 HH( yes I’m one of those guys) and .470 NE for hunting in Africa. I took it as a sound endorsement from an expert in the field. No issue taken with differing opinions at all.

 

[rookhawk]

I trust the first addition written by Graeme Wright more than anyone on this forum when it comes to double rifles. I refer everyone to pages 28 and 29 where in spite of @rook hawks ridiculing me which is fine Graeme says he does not crimp big bore double rifles. If people don’t own this book I highly recommend you buying it if you both own a DR and reload. There is no better out there and I follow it religiously regardless of any other opinions

Well let me tell you some names of people that think Graeme Wright is wrong: Ken Owen and Ross Seyfried.

During Graeme’s early testing (along with Woodleighs) they were even mixing powders to make duplex loads. Point being, you can‘t believe everything you read.

Let’s regroup on the topic as pertains to large bore cartridges. Who doesn’t crimp and why?

Answer: Single shot shooters, particularly those using long range single shots and creedmore iron sights with spirit levels. Crimping creates differences in neck tension and results in less accuracy at great distances. With a single shot, there is zero harm in not crimping, because there is zero chance of the recoil concussion moving the bullet out of the crimp and down the bore.

I have personally witnessed the consequences of no-crimp. I had a PH that had handloads made for him with a moderate crimp At best. He kept topping off his gun so the lower rounds had experienced a couple rounds of recoil. The bullet had fallen out, powder was sloshing around his magazine, and powder was stuck in his recoil lug channel. Not smart.

The consequence of not crimping in a double rifle is more grave than a magazine rifle, because no-crimp in a magazine rifle renders the gun potentially inoperable, whereas in a double rifle the left barrel’s cartridge could have the bullet fall forward in the lands. If you load a subsequent round, you’ve basically created a bomb.

Not crimping large bore cartridges in bolt and double guns is just a lazy reloading shortcut that can and has result in dire consequences. You won’t find a single manufactured ammo that is willing to take on that level of risk, nor will you find a bullet manufacturer that recommends ignoring the crimp cannelure For largebore magnum cartridges.

 

[rookhawk]

A couple other people that think its a dumb idea not to Crimp.

Westley Richards:

 

[rookhawk]

As already discussed, I don't recommend you rely on anything in Graeme Wright's book as gospel, but here's a page from his 2nd edition of Shooting the British Double Rifle where he eats crow after getting so many corrections from his terrible advice in the 1st edition:

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

View attachment 590560View attachment 590561

Taking out of the conversation emotions and condescenion, I think the second paragraph on page 29 of the book you've read supports both what I and @rookhawk said. My thought was more focused on the bullet pushing in when the rifle slams against your shoulder. Rook was thinking more along the line of the bullet moving out and catching on the rifling. This paragraph says both are possible.

But it is a bit of special circumstance. For the double it's a case where a round goes unfired but has been subject to multiple firing event of the other barrel. In that case, it supports crimping. However the average hunter on here will not likely set himself up for this and in that case it's not so needed.

I just came in from the garage where I loaded up some 16 rounds for my .470. I used my Lee FCD to crimp all of the rounds.....it takes all of about 5 seconds per round....so why not?

 

[AimSmall]

...and, a 480 Ruger crimp die works. Just requires a spacer cut to length.

 

[SStomcat]

On the topic of Crimping, a Lee Crimp die is a special tool that makes the job easier, but with little practice a standard Seating die like RCBS and or Redding can do the same thing effectively. Trick is to go slow very slow infact on the crimping till you find the ideal crimp. Can be done very easily.