Learner Professional Hunter fund

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Kevin, Approximately 50 new writers pass their written exam and receive their learners license. That is a lot of rifles. As you know most will never have even handled a rifle, nor do they have a gun safe as required by law.

 

[Mekaniks]

@Kevin Peacocke what if we did something like this using AH?

New learners would need to be employed by an AH sponsor outfitter?

 

[IvW]

10 000 US$ for a minimum caliber double rifle that does not have a rim is not what I would suggest as a starter rifle for an up and coming PH.....

10 000 US$ will buy you a lot of bolt action.....and no I would not suggest a Ruger....

I would suggest a 404 Jeff in a custom built on a reliable action eg. BRNO ZKK .....you can buy the for R10000 and have them rebarreled and custom stock fitted for whichever caliber you want...

Just to put it in perspective 10k US is R181 000 Rand....how many rifles in what caliber you want? At R45 000 you can have 4 custom fit ones instead of 1 not ideal double in a mediocre caliber for a PH on dg....

From the 404 Jeff they can step up to 458 Lott(I dont like them but ammo is not an issue) and if a lot of ele are on the menu then they can step up to 500 Jeff.

The 404 Jeff can then stand in as a back up rifle(fully capable) or as a client loaner rifle...

Whichever way but a double in 375 H&H is not the way I would go....

 

[WillMFerguson]

I can only speak of Zimbabwe but this may be true of South Africa and elsewhere. I am seeing an increase in the number of young people wanting to enter the PH and guides profession. This is good news as the PH population ages and there are willing souls to soak up all that expertise before it passes on. Here is the dilemma: these youngsters require excellent tools, in particular a reliable, accurate rifle and they can't afford one. So they end up with old dogs and sooner or later that bites.

I think that rifle should be a double in 375H&H, it ticks all the boxes (shorter range mostly, legal, easily shootable (many are young ladies), cheaper ammo, more available ammo, dot sight fittable). Hence my interest in the Chapuis Iphisi, but of course the excellent Heym 88b and 89b Light Frame fit the bill too (come on Chris, this product needs more punting!). Others I am sure may have suitable offerings.

So..... how about a fund to assist? Probably best one on one by willing helpers to avoid any problems of misappropriation of funds and all of that. Of course if SCI or DSC were willing to collect and administer these funds that side it would assist a lot. Here is how it may work:
1. The candidates must have passed their learner's licence (that's the academic part, excludes the chancers).
2. They apply, with their CV, personal profile and two references.
3. They get hooked up with a donor, or 'The Fund'.
4. Chapuis, Heym or whoever quotes a good deal (I heard Heym used to do this, may still).

Maybe just a pipe dream, what do you think?

That's an interesting idea. Just a few questions/issues to add:
1. Were you thinking of a charitable trust, LLC, corporation?
2. Would you have a governing board?
3. What would be the criteria for consideration?
4. Where would the trust/LLC/corporation "reside" for purposes of legal administration? Which country? An African country? You would definitely need an attorney in Africa who could navigate the shoals if you want to provide funding and/or firearms.

Your idea made me think of a certain fraternal society. We administered a trust that my firm set up for a client. The client passed away and the trust generated enough yearly income that we would entertain applications for college scholarships. My girlfriend at the time (now my wife) was a teacher at the high school and so I knew of many of the applicants. It was very rewarding to see these kids apply for a scholarship. It takes work and some guts to apply for scholarships.

I know there are other legal beagles on here, so I can't be the only one who saw your post and had these questions. I'd donate some money and time on formation and administration. I don't doubt there are sharper attorneys on this site, so I'd defer to them if they wanted to step up to the plate.

One other thing, have you thought about keeping the parameters broad enough that current PHs could benefit upon application? The thought comes to mind about one AH member's leopard hunt in which his PH was wounded in action. Maybe if the foundational documents are broad enough, you could help out existing PHs.

 

[PeteG]

Appies don’t have it easy to get started unless they have some financial backing/income.
Yet at the end of a (generally) unpaid internship, they are expected to have guns, gear, vehicle and so on.

Perhaps a start is to have the outfitter employing the appie put some skin in the game.
If the outfitter sees the potential in the appie, let him/her apply to the funding group (as youve suggested to establish). if successful, the operator should buy a firearm. which upon successful completion of the apprenticeship, the fund then repays the operator for this.
This way, everyone has some skin in the game, operator, appie and the fund is secure until successful completion.

or


Lets me honest, if an appie earns $50/hunting day for a year and puts in 60 days, they can utilize that for a firearm. but because they are generally unpaid, that then gets spent on "others" upon completion of the safari.
perhaps the fund can work on a financial reward based on hunter review and "pay" an appie for hunting days completed? Funds to be used to finance equipment only.

i think the main focus is not to become a charity, but rather a partner in developing an appie.

I believe the standard mod70/brno/cz550 would be just fine. i would not recommend a double as an appie rifle. it ticks all the wrong boxes in my opinion.
a bolt action 375 as a first firearm is perfect. appie can use it to shoot game, camp meat, bait and not worry about recoil.
it can be scoped to good accurate shots and with qd mounts can be open sights for the majority of the needed use.

 

[Sourdough]

My 2 cents.

For any Dangerous Game PH the minimum should be:
1. CRF Bolt Gun
2. 500 gr bullet

His/Her job is to stop the charge. Probably at an incredibly close distance.

 

[IvW]

My 2 cents.

For any Dangerous Game PH the minimum should be:
1. CRF Bolt Gun
2. 500 gr bullet

His/Her job is to stop the charge. Probably at an incredibly close distance.

Which is not the job of the apprentice/learner PH......

 

[Slider]

Most young PH's Rifles I have seen are hand me downs. 458 Win Mag Bolt Guns

 

[bowjijohn]

I did once buy a rifle for a young PH

it was after my FGASA qual and he was kind enough to spend several weeks with me refreshing my DG knowledge and approaches

I found that bush skills do have a half life and I appreciated his time helping me read animal behaviour without being run over

at his request it was a Cz or Bruno

Which it was exactly, I don’t recall, as I just gave him the ‘spondoolies’ and he sorted it

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

After passing the Zimbabwe Learners written test my wife started her apprenticeship with a M-70 .375H&H. Definitely the wrong caliber. Before passing her shooting test she had graduated to a CZ 550 .404, correct rifle (after a lot of work) correct caliber. She also used a Heym 88b- .450-.400. Great gun, but a bit light on the stopping side, but when required both her and the Heym did their job, having stopped charges on lion, buffalo, elephant and Hippo. She has now moved up from the .450-.400.

As to a double in .375 H&H, the timed Zimbabwe shooting tests results would be pretty dismal especially after 10 points are deducted for using less than .40 caliber.