Lack of American made optics

[Red Leg]

After more digging I have discovered the Vortex AMG still has American made glass, but the recital is made in Germany. ANDDD AMG stands for Advanced Manufacturing Group, so I was big time wrong there.

I have no interest in them. And you can dig some more and find reviewers certain that the actual lenses are Japanese. That said, I am sure they are great quality.

However, for the same money, I can buy a S&B that would be acknowledged by any knowledgeable person in the world as a product created by one of the finest optical companies extant. For me at least, that is a no contest.

Moreover, I have no use whatsoever for all the sniper wannabe aiming indices.

I think most of us are best served by the best hunting optics we can afford. That does not have to be 4k investment. I have rifles mounting Leupold, Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, and S&B. Their are Vortex and Night Force options that would fit in there as well.

We should be happy with optics that are sufficient and dependable enough for the job for which we employ them. Normally, usually, most of the time a best quality glass is unnecessary. But that is not the same thing as the lower quality product is just as good as a Magnus or Z8.

 

[JGRaider]

I never got on that ladder and am also very happy with Leupold scopes! Paying more for the aiming device than one pays for the rifle just seems foolish to me.

I've got to respectfully disagree. The very best rifle in the world is worthless without an aiming device that won't hold zero, won't track, or with flimsy erectors.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

US optics used to make high quality, albeit mostly “tactical” optics in the US. I don’t know if they still do. Is Leupold still making optics here?

American-made optics are going to cost more than Asian-made optics of the same quality. The only way making it here is economically worthwhile is if it is at a quality level the Asians can’t (or at least don’t) match, i.e. the high end, where the purchaser is relatively price-insensitive.

If we look at the high end, there are European manufacturers already doing it. Who wants to be the first to buy a $3000 American-made scope that is supposed to be as good as a Swarovski when Swarovski is available? Which company has better odds of being available for warranty work in 15 years? Only way I’d take the chance is if the American-made scope had specs significantly better than what’s available. Make something half the weight, twice as strong, more mechanically reliable, and optically better than a Z8i and maybe I’d roll the dice and hope it lives up to the specs. But I’m not sure I could afford a seat at that table. Seems like market forces don’t favor US-made hunting optics.

 

[YancyW]

I have been and still am pretty snobbish when it come to optics, but the world is absolutely changing in that area. LOW can produce glass that the vast majority of end users, including me, couldn't distinguish from most European makers.

 

[Joker12]

I've got to respectfully disagree. The very best rifle in the world is worthless without an aiming device that won't hold zero, won't track, or with flimsy erectors.

I would agree but none of that describes Leupold scopes.

 

[Corey0372]

Valid points and I appreciate the feedback gents.

 

[Corey0372]

An interesting presumption about others' perception of cheapness.

I am more than willing to pay a premium for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, and Schmidt & Bender quality (so does the American military for its sniper quality optics - S&B is the current state of the art) in the general power range you suggest. If someone wants to build "American" optics of that quality at a competitive price, then sure, I am in the market.

I should note that the critical path in your proposed American manufacturer are quality lenses. I suspect you may be looking at a rather enormous investment in optical technology that no one to date has had any interest in making in this country. Current "American" manufacturers source their optical components from Asia. They may be assembled here, but the critical lens elements come from the Philippines, China, or Japan.

Some of these assembled in America products can be quite good - Leupold has for years set the standard for the exact sort of scope you describe.

Thanks for the response Red Leg! My apologies, didn't mean to be presumptuous!

But to your point in all the research I've done on this issue you're exactly right it usually does come down to the glass. S&B has made great stuff for a long time, Nightforce is becoming more and more popular in the Sniper Community as well, especially within SOCOM (Their high end stuff is made in USA, not sure about the glass). Almost nobody dials anymore bc everyone's shooting grid reticles, so as long as the glass is good, magnification is right, and it's durable, brand almost becomes irrelevant.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong quality wise with a lot of the stuff coming out of Japan, or even some of the stuff coming out of the Philippines for that matter, it's really just me being bummed that you can have a rifle and every other component on it 100% made in USA, but the scope is where you're gonna have to bend.

On a side note.....I bought one of the Tract Torics with the MRAD PRS reticle in it... (Japanese made Scope with Schott glass) and this thing is easily on the same level as any of the stuff Leupold was producing for the military as far as quality.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Another thread I'm really enjoying. I know this isn't a fair comparison, but I fell off the social ladder years ago, so... I bought a new mid '90s 2.8x10x44 Simmons Aetec and mounted it on my Browning A Bolt .338 and it's been on that rifle ever since. Has been through all sorts of nasty weather, bounced around and loaned out but still holds a zero. I have an older 1.25x4x20 Schmidt and Bender with the #4 reticle that came on a heavy recoiling rifle I purchased. After viewing this thread, I looked through both scopes on 4x at a tree at about 100 yards. The S&B is definitely clearer, but more importantly is the heavy reticle. I really like it. I now need to check out Leupold as I don't currently own one. My father in law has a Leupold on his "former" hunting rifle, but now has an expensive Night Force on his new custom rifle. I'll have to check those out. Or, just keep using and killing game with the Simmons. What a quandary? Ha! Ha!

 

[Corey0372]

US optics used to make high quality, albeit mostly “tactical” optics in the US. I don’t know if they still do. Is Leupold still making optics here?

American-made optics are going to cost more than Asian-made optics of the same quality. The only way making it here is economically worthwhile is if it is at a quality level the Asians can’t (or at least don’t) match, i.e. the high end, where the purchaser is relatively price-insensitive.

If we look at the high end, there are European manufacturers already doing it. Who wants to be the first to buy a $3000 American-made scope that is supposed to be as good as a Swarovski when Swarovski is available? Which company has better odds of being available for warranty work in 15 years? Only way I’d take the chance is if the American-made scope had specs significantly better than what’s available. Make something half the weight, twice as strong, more mechanically reliable, and optically better than a Z8i and maybe I’d roll the dice and hope it lives up to the specs. But I’m not sure I could afford a seat at that table. Seems like market forces don’t favor US-made hunting optics.

Yep, it's basically all the Tactical stuff.

If an American company made a standard 2-7 or 3-9 with a duplex reticle and capped turrets (basically your standard old deer rifle scope that's been around for ages, with no bells and whistles) and it was 100% made in the USA (glass included) and the glass was on par with a Swaro or S&B, I'd probably be willing to pay Swaro prices for sure.

 

[Corey0372]

For scopes Leupold makes exactly what you described? A search for American made binoculars is a different story though. American brands like Leupold are made in Asia. I purchased Maven binoculars in 2019 and have been really impressed. Apparently the B series are made in USA with Japanese parts. I could not find any other binoculars made in USA.

If you can find some of the Leupold Binos that were being issued out during OIF/OEF I believe they might have been (gunbroker maybe? I'm sure some fell off a truck over the last 20 years). Leuopold was making a tan set that If I recall were 10x50 and had a built in Mil-Dot reticle. Pretty slick setup.

 

[YancyW]

Another thread I'm really enjoying. I know this isn't a fair comparison, but I fell off the social ladder years ago, so... I bought a new mid '90s 2.8x10x44 Simmons Aetec and mounted it on my Browning A Bolt .338 and it's been on that rifle ever since. Has been through all sorts of nasty weather, bounced around and loaned out but still holds a zero. I have an older 1.25x4x20 Schmidt and Bender with the #4 reticle that came on a heavy recoiling rifle I purchased. After viewing this thread, I looked through both scopes on 4x at a tree at about 100 yards. The S&B is definitely clearer, but more importantly is the heavy reticle. I really like it. I now need to check out Leupold as I don't currently own one. My father in law has a Leupold on his "former" hunting rifle, but now has an expensive Night Force on his new custom rifle. I'll have to check those out. Or, just keep using and killing game with the Simmons. What a quandary? Ha! Ha!

This is the time of year you can buy used scopes on Ebay and other auction sites, people sell stuff after deer season and before Christmas all the time. There are also several dealers on here that I'm sure would be willing to help you out a bit on a new Leupold scope.

 

[YancyW]

TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope

The TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope is engineered for the hunter who demands the very best whether hunting in the hardwoods or the long range bean fields.

tractoptics.com

Here is one of the best deals in the rifle scope world right now, excellent glass for 800 bucks. I have Z3s and Z5 Swaros, this glass is in that class without question.

 

[Corey0372]

TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope

The TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope is engineered for the hunter who demands the very best whether hunting in the hardwoods or the long range bean fields.

tractoptics.com

Here is one of the best deals in the rifle scope world right now, excellent glass for 800 bucks. I have Z3s and Z5 Swaros, this glass is in that class without question.

I went with their 4-20 FFP, love it

 

[CoElkHunter]

Kinda off this topic, but I wanted to mention shooting with ANY scope in low light conditions. Here in Colorado, a legal bull elk must have 4 points on one side and a legal buck deer must have 3 points on one side. This probably is the case with most other Western states here. If you have a bull or buck tag and can't count the points, it makes no sense hunting them at dawn or dusk. I shot a "spike" deer once when I had a doe tag at dusk. The only reason it was legal, because the spikes were under 5". I've seen spike bull elk laying dead as the hunter(s) thought they were a cow. I'm sure in many/most places around the country here and worldwide that doesn't make any difference, but I no longer hunt here when I can't see points. And you can't use a night scope here for big game. FYI.

 

[CoElkHunter]

TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope

The TORIC UHD 3-15X42 BDC Rifle Scope is engineered for the hunter who demands the very best whether hunting in the hardwoods or the long range bean fields.

tractoptics.com

Here is one of the best deals in the rifle scope world right now, excellent glass for 800 bucks. I have Z3s and Z5 Swaros, this glass is in that class without question.

Nice!

 

[Vashper]

A friend of mine mounted a Hawke scope on his rifle, added a Pard and saved himself well over 1,000 Euros to go hunting at night with it and is excited..I would never have thought that of him, an avowed Zeiss fan.
Pulsar and Pard are setting new standards here.

Foxi, you just took it off the tongue. The classic optical sight is leaving. A Chinese thermal imager and a Chinese night sight are a small gentleman's set. And in our region (Russia, it's cold here, and there are practically no long-range shooting hunts) - well, there is also a 1-4x24 . There are few hunts even for a light-bearing 3-9. Well, yes, there are fanatics who are chasing world records in range, but how vast is the market for their optics?

Yes, North America and Africa are still a haven for classic sights, but production goes where costs are lower. Hunters, of course, are usually patriots, but how can a manager explain to a shareholders' meeting why dividends last year were lower than in the previous year, while they increased for a competitor?

 

[Donnstar]

All of my rifle used to wear S&B with illuminated reticles. Sadly all were sold to pay the divorce attorneys! I am very accustomed to a German L7 reticle. Now that I am hunting again I went shopping for new optics. I found the German optics stuck exactly were I left them 20 years ago. Their only improvements are in the tactical range. I did revisit the lowly Leupold company. I found a VX.R 2x7x33 FireDot 4 Metric Matte. for my 7mm.08. This replaces my 1.5x6x42 SB L7. I believe I paid 450.00 US for the Leupold. The Leupold did it's job last month with this Colorado buck. I hunt Colorado and Wyoming where distances exceed most anywhere else. I have never used a scope greater than 10x, as I have never shot a big game animal beyond 350 yards. There is a profound difference between hunting and shooting!!! I am also well qualified to 1000 yards.

 

[CoElkHunter]

All of my rifle used to wear S&B with illuminated reticles. Sadly all were sold to pay the divorce attorneys! I am very accustomed to a German L7 reticle. Now that I am hunting again I went shopping for new optics. I found the German optics stuck exactly were I left them 20 years ago. Their only improvements are in the tactical range. I did revisit the lowly Leupold company. I found a VX.R 2x7x33 FireDot 4 Metric Matte. for my 7mm.08. This replaces my 1.5x6x42 SB L7. I believe I paid 450.00 US for the Leupold. The Leupold did it's job last month with this Colorado buck. I hunt Colorado and Wyoming where distances exceed most anywhere else. I have never used a scope greater than 10x, as I have never shot a big game animal beyond 350 yards. There is a profound difference between hunting and shooting!!! I am also well qualified to 1000 yards. Sorry the pic will not post correctly.

Very nice buck! Congrats!

 

[Tanks]

Nightforce and Trijicon make quality optics. I don't know where the glass itself is source from though.

 

[WAB]

Nightforce and Trijicon make quality optics. I don't know where the glass itself is source from though.

I have a quite a number of Swarovski scopes and love them. However, my best low light scope is a Trijicon. They are incredible value for the money.