Kyrgyzstan Hunting and Extortion

[capra-capra]

I just had a friend hunt Slovenia, 10 days and no Ibex. Didn't even see one, had 10 to 15 spotters every day.

Woww that is pretty bad fell sorry for him. Who did he hunt with?

 

[wesheltonj]

The Slovenia Ibex permits are hard to get. My outfitter that I used, said may be 2030, I could get one. I was speaking with one of my guides, that I was interested. He said they were very expensive. I told him I was not worried about the cost, it was the time. He said he knew someone that might be able to get a tag for me, we went to meet him, however he was unable to secure a tag.

The Alpine ibex are not even close to as a great looking trophy as an Mid-Asian.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I just had a friend hunt Slovenia, 10 days and no Ibex. Didn't even see one, had 10 to 15 spotters every day.

Expensive camping trip.

Don't have to pay the Trophy fee without an animal I hope?

 

[Green Chile]

Did they offer your friend anything for the lack of opportunity? Maybe a return trip or something? That's unusual to see NOTHING.

 

[DillonG]

Just find a good booking agent and go. Ibex in Kyrgyzstan is still the best adventure for your dollar in the world today.

My follow up question then, what would your process be to vet a good booking agent for the “stans”? I am still young enough, and in good shape to hunt there. You mentioned The Hunting Consortium. Is that the primary resource you would select?

 

[Scott CWO]

I hunted Tajikistan in 2018 and was able to bring my Marco Polo trophy home with me because the CITES export permit was available and I received my USFWS Import Permit before I went. These things are not possible at the moment but the outfitters will still take you hunting and you might never get your animal home. Buyer beware!

COVID really messed up things between Tajikistan and the USFWS. Sheep surveys were not done and when finally recently done, the USFWS refused to honor the survey until it was translated into English! These issues are being worked on right now and hopefully solved. It is important that hunters dig into these issues BEFORE booking. Once things are normalized, I would not hesitate to hunt through Bob Kern at the Hot Springs camp. I was at a different camp but my buddy was at HS. After comparing notes, I would hunt the HS camp if I were going back.

If you’re in “sheep shape” and take Diamox you will be able to handle stalking on foot. The problem is that most of the hunters booking these hunts are older or not in “sheep shape” so the guides try to drive up on sheep and the shots get long and risky. I refused to hunt in such a way and shot my ram at 17,050 feet on foot. If you can’t handle a North American sheep hunt, perhaps you have no business going to Asia, even with the use of vehicles or horses to get reasonably close to sheep because the elevations are much higher. Again, buyer beware.

If you are not able to take your trophies home with you, it is common to have to pay for shipping and handling. I wouldn’t call this “extortion” as the OP did but I understand his frustration if he was told he could take the trophies with him. African hunters are used to paying shipping and handling fees and it has now become the norm in Asia as well.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Woww that is pretty bad fell sorry for him. Who did he hunt with?

I never asked, I know he is on call if one is spotted given the tags are so hard to get. I think they only give out between 5 and 7 tags.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Expensive camping trip.

Don't have to pay the Trophy fee without an animal I hope?

You are right, no Trophy Fee, not really camping, hunting in Europe is hard from roughing it but he said they put in some miles trying to locate them.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I hunted Tajikistan in 2018 and was able to bring my Marco Polo trophy home with me because the CITES export permit was available and I received my USFWS Import Permit before I went. These things are not possible at the moment but the outfitters will still take you hunting and you might never get your animal home. Buyer beware!

COVID really messed up things between Tajikistan and the USFWS. Sheep surveys were not done and when finally recently done, the USFWS refused to honor the survey until it was translated into English! These issues are being worked on right now and hopefully solved. It is important that hunters dig into these issues BEFORE booking. Once things are normalized, I would not hesitate to hunt through Bob Kern at the Hot Springs camp. I was at a different camp but my buddy was at HS. After comparing notes, I would hunt the HS camp if I were going back.

If you’re in “sheep shape” and take Diamox you will be able to handle stalking on foot. The problem is that most of the hunters booking these hunts are older or not in “sheep shape” so the guides try to drive up on sheep and the shots get long and risky. I refused to hunt in such a way and shot my ram at 17,050 feet on foot. If you can’t handle a North American sheep hunt, perhaps you have no business going to Asia, even with the use of vehicles or horses to get reasonably close to sheep because the elevations are much higher. Again, buyer beware.

If you are not able to take your trophies home with you, it is common to have to pay for shipping and handling. I wouldn’t call this “extortion” as the OP did but I understand his frustration if he was told he could take the trophies with him. African hunters are used to paying shipping and handling fees and it has now become the norm in Asia as well.


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Scott, I have not been but this is exactly what the guys I know who hunt sheep said. They could have put on a stalk and got to within 400 yards, one even said 300, but he said the elevation was such a bitch as soon as he got to 500, he took the shot and dropped it right there. I know he had booked through Bob Kern.

 

[Arañuel]

Read pots like this one is sad.
I hunted many times Pakistan, Tadyikistan and Rusia, and also hunted Kirguistan and Kazakhstan.
Only had problems in Pakistan one time due to a bad local agency, but now I can say is my favorite country for hunting without doubt.
Never had a problem in Russia, I used to hunt there 3-4 times at year before the war started. Now I hunted 3 times, one per year since war started, never had an issue. Russia is just amazing for hunting and the people is very friendly, I'm from Europe and I can really say that for me Russian an Asian people are more friendly that Americans, and I hunted with many Americans I had good friends in America also but in general this what I experimented.

In every place are good and bad people, scams everywhere, big and famous outffiters sometimes are also scams and other times they only charge you double of the local price for make nothing, but it seems that for many people if the hunt is more expensive is better, everybody can spend his money like he want, but is funny.
You have you be careful with some locals in Asia or Russia because many times they are very poor and the hunting agencies are paying them almost anything and they are making all the hard work, sometimes they have problem with the outffiters and if you are involved in the middle of the outfiter and local guides war you have a problem.

Turkey price for bezoar is just crazy now, The Stan countries and Russia still the best dollar value hunting of ibex, Pakistan is going very expensive and in some years will be only for the super rich hunters.
Slovenia I hunted many times there, amazing country and hunting culture, and you can find the alpine ibex there in 15.000 but they have waiting list about 4-5 years.
My country Spain, you can find good trophy ibex in good prices except Gredos that nowadays is crazy their price and still going up, the same will happen in some years with Beceite due to the scabies problem. But the true in in a one life hunt adventure Spain can't win the Asian countries.

 

[DillonG]

I hunted Tajikistan in 2018 and was able to bring my Marco Polo trophy home with me because the CITES export permit was available and I received my USFWS Import Permit before I went. These things are not possible at the moment but the outfitters will still take you hunting and you might never get your animal home. Buyer beware!

COVID really messed up things between Tajikistan and the USFWS. Sheep surveys were not done and when finally recently done, the USFWS refused to honor the survey until it was translated into English! These issues are being worked on right now and hopefully solved. It is important that hunters dig into these issues BEFORE booking. Once things are normalized, I would not hesitate to hunt through Bob Kern at the Hot Springs camp. I was at a different camp but my buddy was at HS. After comparing notes, I would hunt the HS camp if I were going back.

If you’re in “sheep shape” and take Diamox you will be able to handle stalking on foot. The problem is that most of the hunters booking these hunts are older or not in “sheep shape” so the guides try to drive up on sheep and the shots get long and risky. I refused to hunt in such a way and shot my ram at 17,050 feet on foot. If you can’t handle a North American sheep hunt, perhaps you have no business going to Asia, even with the use of vehicles or horses to get reasonably close to sheep because the elevations are much higher. Again, buyer beware.

If you are not able to take your trophies home with you, it is common to have to pay for shipping and handling. I wouldn’t call this “extortion” as the OP did but I understand his frustration if he was told he could take the trophies with him. African hunters are used to paying shipping and handling fees and it has now become the norm in Asia as well.


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That is one hell of a Marco!

 

[Green Chile]

Scott you take some of the nicest trophies! That's a hammer of a ram. How big is he? Long shot required?

 

[avon_7]

My follow up question then, what would your process be to vet a good booking agent for the “stans”? I am still young enough, and in good shape to hunt there. You mentioned The Hunting Consortium. Is that the primary resource you would select?

I feel it is a fairly bold statement, just to say, " Find a good Booking agent and go"

Even if the booking agent has good intentions, They are still using a hunting guiding operation in Kyrgyistan and I dont know of a single such entity that has a good reputation. Believe me i have spent many many hours researching and speaking with hunters that have been there.

Even as I type this. I know of a Hunter who at this moment is sitting in a hotel in Bishkek wondering what the hell is going on.
He got his Ibex on the first day of the hunt and the guides drove him out of camp to Bishkek and dumped him in a hotel ( not before they got him to pay for them all to have a lunch in a restaurant in town first). He has been there for 4 days and has 3 more days to go before he fly's out. He has not been able to reach his Guide, Outfitter or anyone. He wanted to stay in camp and photograph the remoteness of the area and generally experience the mountains but he was given no choice.

The Outfit that he went with, have a very big presence on YouTube.

As someone that has hunted in Kyrgyistan, I have people asking me often how to get the ball rolling to go there and in all honestly I advise them not to go.

PS: You dont need to be young and fit to hunt Ibex in Kyrgyistan. In many cases you will ride a horse right up the mountains to just below the crest of a saddle. From there the guides will dismount and peak over the top and spot the Ibex. From there they will becon the hunter over and you may only have to walk 200 yards and then take a fairly simple shot. This happens a lot!

 

[avon_7]

I hunted Tajikistan in 2018 and was able to bring my Marco Polo trophy home with me because the CITES export permit was available and I received my USFWS Import Permit before I went. These things are not possible at the moment but the outfitters will still take you hunting and you might never get your animal home. Buyer beware!

COVID really messed up things between Tajikistan and the USFWS. Sheep surveys were not done and when finally recently done, the USFWS refused to honor the survey until it was translated into English! These issues are being worked on right now and hopefully solved. It is important that hunters dig into these issues BEFORE booking. Once things are normalized, I would not hesitate to hunt through Bob Kern at the Hot Springs camp. I was at a different camp but my buddy was at HS. After comparing notes, I would hunt the HS camp if I were going back.

If you’re in “sheep shape” and take Diamox you will be able to handle stalking on foot. The problem is that most of the hunters booking these hunts are older or not in “sheep shape” so the guides try to drive up on sheep and the shots get long and risky. I refused to hunt in such a way and shot my ram at 17,050 feet on foot. If you can’t handle a North American sheep hunt, perhaps you have no business going to Asia, even with the use of vehicles or horses to get reasonably close to sheep because the elevations are much higher. Again, buyer beware.

If you are not able to take your trophies home with you, it is common to have to pay for shipping and handling. I wouldn’t call this “extortion” as the OP did but I understand his frustration if he was told he could take the trophies with him. African hunters are used to paying shipping and handling fees and it has now become the norm in Asia as well.


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To clarify, my extortion comments were more aimed at the Outfitter who charged us to get our rifles back after they were confiscated at the airport. This was because the Outfitter made a mistake with the dates on our licences. These expired the day before we were due to fly out. Instead of just understanding the mistake and adjusted the permits accordingly, the airport police confiscated our rifles and we had to fly out of the country with out them.
The Outfitter then flew back to Bishkek several months later and retrieved our trophies and rifles and brought them back to Australia. My gripe with him was that I felt that I should not have to pay for the return of my rifle because the loss was caused by his mistake in the first place. We also had to pay for the Outfitters trophy to be returned as well as he was on an earlier hunt. None of this was explained to us at the time until we were faced with a hefty bill at the end.

I have no proof but I personally believe we were stitched up on purpose..

PS I really like your Marco Polo, well done.
The other guys on my trip also shot Agali. They thought they were hunting Marco Polo but what they were actually hunting was Hume Agali, which is a sub species. They were not worried about it but I personally would have been If I thought I was paying for a Marco Polo hunt and ended up hunting a sub species.

 

[Scott CWO]

Scott you take some of the nicest trophies! That's a hammer of a ram. How big is he? Long shot required?

Thank you! I don’t remember exactly but was a little shy of 59” if I recall correctly. The shot was 550 yards using my 6.5 GAP (Gnat Ass Precision). It’s basically a 300 SAUM case necked down to 6.5mm launching a 140 grain Berger Hybrid at about 3300 FPS. My buddy shot a 62” ram at the Hot Springs camp.

 

[Scott CWO]

To clarify, my extortion comments were more aimed at the Outfitter who charged us to get our rifles back after they were confiscated at the airport. This was because the Outfitter made a mistake with the dates on our licences. These expired the day before we were due to fly out. Instead of just understanding the mistake and adjusted the permits accordingly, the airport police confiscated our rifles and we had to fly out of the country with out them.
The Outfitter then flew back to Bishkek several months later and retrieved our trophies and rifles and brought them back to Australia. My gripe with him was that I felt that I should not have to pay for the return of my rifle because the loss was caused by his mistake in the first place. We also had to pay for the Outfitters trophy to be returned as well as he was on an earlier hunt. None of this was explained to us at the time until we were faced with a hefty bill at the end.

I have no proof but I personally believe we were stitched up on purpose..

PS I really like your Marco Polo, well done.
The other guys on my trip also shot Agali. They thought they were hunting Marco Polo but what they were actually hunting was Hume Agali, which is a sub species. They were not worried about it but I personally would have been If I thought I was paying for a Marco Polo hunt and ended up hunting a sub species.

Yes, sounds like his mistake, not yours, on the rifles.

I’m no stranger to the corruption. Several years before my hunt, some friends of mine and I invested $10k each to have a new camp built in a new area in Tajikistan. The area was recommended to us by Soudy Golabchi, who has killed more 60”+ rams than anyone. Soudy is now deceased. He was a US citizen with a construction company in Georgia but born in Iran. He hunted Tajikistan every year. The outfitter never built the camp and never refunded our money! I figured that a $10k investment for a chance to hunt 60”+ rams yearly was worth the risk of trying to do business in a foreign country.

Yes, the sheep in Kryg are Hume and not quite as big.

 

[Green Chile]

Soudy's book on sheep hunting, etc is awesome. Do you have that Scott?

 

[Scott CWO]

Soudy's book on sheep hunting, etc is awesome. Do you have that Scott?

Oh yes and I had a few conversations with him at the WSF and GSCO shows. A treasure trove of knowledge.

 

[Philip Glass]

My follow up question then, what would your process be to vet a good booking agent for the “stans”? I am still young enough, and in good shape to hunt there. You mentioned The Hunting Consortium. Is that the primary resource you would select?

For a hunt like we are talking about I believe it is critical to go to SCI or DSC conventions and meet the agents. The personal connection at least for the first booking is essential. This way you can sit down and ask about the shenanigans that some Asian guides play.
You will find that there is little price difference on most of these hunts if they are from the reputable agents. Then when you see one for much less beware!
From my experience The Hunting Consortium is who I would use for the most part. They take care of all travel, gun permits, visas, etc. So in other words since I know them well I could just call them and say "Bob, I'm ready to go to Pakistan" and everything would be handled.