Just won a 10 day trip Need Advice

[JimP]

It's been my experience that the high fences in South Africa exist but you may not ever experience them. The animals on most farms are owned by the landowner and they try to keep a vast amount of these animals in the hunting area for the paying clients.

On both of my trips to the Eastern Cape I would of thought that I was hunting elk in the low country of Colorado or Utah rather than a high fence in South Africa. The animals are truly wild and react to hunters the same way that you would expect for a wild animal to react.

Sure they are high fence but the properties are also vast and contain varied terrine for you to hunt. My last trip the only time that I would of known that it was high fence was when we passed through the gates on our way in or out.

 

[DonPablo]

If using a TA it quite likely will be taken care of before you even know it.

What was to be taken care of? Informing us of the change? The airline has an app for that. Like I said, if you are not tech savvy or are high anxiety, by all means, use a TA. For those of us who are more independent (or realize the possibility that a TA could be a waste of money or could even make things worse), we will continue to use our cash on other aspects of the trip.

 

[DieJager]

New question guys. And I am only asking on this post since I started it and I don't want this question to be turned into a big debate. I am just looking for clarification so I can make a better decision.

Can someone please explain the fencing, ranches, game farms and concessions? I am not so naïve to think that it is still wide open wild Africa that I love reading about so much, but the more research you do the more you learn. Good and bad. I have no issues with the big fenced in areas but I do not want to end up on a 500 acre ranch either. I have even learned through conversations some places are are changing out stock every few years to keep better animals which to me isn't a far jump from put and take. This does not seem like Africa to me. I am not an elitist nor am I questioning what one person likes vs another's. I just don't like surprises.

If I recall correctly both of your hunts that you've have won are in Limpopo. If I would bet they are probably both high fence operations.

You'll have to ask questions about the size of the area and or if the population is self sustainable. To know more. But change is high that in some way they supply extra animals to the population.

Your hunts that you have won are not wild Africa. If you want that you'll have to define first what wild Africa is for you. Is that zero to no humans and totally wild Serengeti so to speak. Are just self sustainable populations (also in different degrees).

 

[JimP]

What was to be taken care of? Informing us of the change? The airline has an app for that. Like I said, if you are not tech savvy or are high anxiety, by all means, use a TA. For those of us who are more independent (or realize the possibility that a TA could be a waste of money or could even make things worse), we will continue to use our cash on other aspects of the trip.

They have had it taken care of and notified me of the change. No hassel or standing in line trying to find a flight when all the flights are booked solid.

If you don't want to use a TA then don't use one. I happen to enjoy trouble free flying, especially international with a multiple of connections. Now for domestic I'll handle it myself.

 

[DonPablo]

They have had it taken care of and notified me of the change. No hassel or standing in line trying to find a flight when all the flights are booked solid.

If you don't want to use a TA then don't use one. I happen to enjoy trouble free flying, especially international with a multiple of connections. Now for domestic I'll handle it myself.

Well, in our situation there was no hassle nor standing in line trying to find a flight. We were notified on the app and were able to even get our new boarding passes in the app. I understand the appeal of talking to someone rather than an impersonal app it's just not worth the expense for me.

 

[JimP]

Well, in our situation there was no hassle nor standing in line trying to find a flight. We were notified on the app and were able to even get our new boarding passes in the app. I understand the appeal of talking to someone rather than an impersonal app it's just not worth the expense for me.

My first trip to SA the TA saved me money on the flights plus steered me away from problem flights. Enough so that they paid for their service to where it didn't cost me any more than what I had looked at doing it myself.

My second trip the TA added extra fees that I shouldn't of had to pay and wouldn't of if I would of known that they were charging them. But still the flights themselves were cheaper than I could of done.

On my first trip there were plenty of extra seats on all 4 legs of my trip both going and coming back home. But this is where the problem occurred, on my trip home. On my second trip there was not a single available seat on 4 legs of the trip both going and returning. I surmised that all their flights would be booked this solid since flew over and back on the middle of the week and not the prime flights.

 

[375Fox]

New question guys. And I am only asking on this post since I started it and I don't want this question to be turned into a big debate. I am just looking for clarification so I can make a better decision.

Can someone please explain the fencing, ranches, game farms and concessions? I am not so naïve to think that it is still wide open wild Africa that I love reading about so much, but the more research you do the more you learn. Good and bad. I have no issues with the big fenced in areas but I do not want to end up on a 500 acre ranch either. I have even learned through conversations some places are are changing out stock every few years to keep better animals which to me isn't a far jump from put and take. This does not seem like Africa to me. I am not an elitist nor am I questioning what one person likes vs another's. I just don't like surprises.

Fencing allows private ownership of game by the landowner and year round hunting. The words farm and ranch are used interchangeably and are privately owned land. South Africans primarily say farm. Americans often say ranch. A concession to me is a large unfenced area containing dangerous game often under government or community ownership and mostly north of South Africa.
Discussing fences here usually creates a debate. There are high fenced properties managed as wild and hunted on a sustainable quota but will often cost more. There are high fenced properties where most game is self sustaining but supplemented with trophies each year or few years to bring more hunters in. Then there are high fenced properties incorporating a large amount of put and take. They often cheapest cost when looking at Limpopo and areas driving distance from Johannesburg. All high fence properties will bring in new game from time to time to diversify the genetics. I wouldn’t necessarily call that put and take.
I wrote the questions I’d ask in an earlier post to try and identify the outfitters you’d like to hunt with. Most in Limpopo are hunting all three categories in different proportions with the largest proportion likely being supplemented properties. You need to tell them what you’re looking for and see what they can offer and who you trust. Hunt common game native to the region like kudu, zebra, impala, warthog, blue wildebeest, etc. Species like sable and buffalo are commercially farmed. I’d also avoid outfitters who make color variants and CBL lion shooting a prominent part of their business.
I personally find Limpopo too commercialized and many properties on the smaller side. I also find it difficult to identify who is being fully honest and who isn’t except with a few. I see more comparisons to Texas than the rest of Africa. I like eastern cape. The farms are bigger and much less commercialized and a lot of low fence hunting available. I like central Namibia even more. The farms are very large and huge amounts of space in county. Most outfitters there operate from a high fence base then have a large amount of low fence ranches to hunt.

 

[375Fox]

What was to be taken care of? Informing us of the change? The airline has an app for that. Like I said, if you are not tech savvy or are high anxiety, by all means, use a TA. For those of us who are more independent (or realize the possibility that a TA could be a waste of money or could even make things worse), we will continue to use our cash on other aspects of the trip.

If you are only flying to Johannesburg I could understand not using a travel agent. However, if you are flying elsewhere it will likely require an airline change. Some airlines are firearm friendly and some are not. Some airlines will be codeshare with a partner who wont accept a firearm but not immediately apparent. African airlines do occasionally go out of business or stop flying certain routes after you booked. You may be in a situation where you need to change flights in a hurry but don’t have time to sit at a computer all day like I was in March 2020. It’s a $200 fee for knowledge you don’t necessarily have. That should be a pretty minimal impact on the rest of your trip.

 

[rookhawk]

If I recall correctly both of your hunts that you've have won are in Limpopo. If I would bet they are probably both high fence operations.

You'll have to ask questions about the size of the area and or if the population is self sustainable. To know more. But change is high that in some way they supply extra animals to the population.

Your hunts that you have won are not wild Africa. If you want that you'll have to define first what wild Africa is for you. Is that zero to no humans and totally wild Serengeti so to speak. Are just self sustainable populations (also in different degrees).

Precisely, 99.9% of South Africa is high fenced which is a key difference between wild Africa and "game under husbandry" Africa.

The pros are big ones: The land owner owns his game and he can assign prices as he sees fit, thus there are bargains on some species in RSA. They are also livestock, not wildlife, which means the operator does not have to follow Fish & Game seasons or limits, he can invite guests to hunt his personally owned resources any day of the year. The other pro is that the animals are actively managed for size and horn quality, often being fed special dietary supplements that result in sound health, bigger size, less disease, etc. You'll statistically kill larger trophies in RSA than in wilderness areas in other countries. You'll also be able to get in and out of the country efficiently saving you time. (e.g. it takes me 5 days roundtrip to get to and from camp in Zim, RSA would be <3 days) Accommodations are generally better to much better in RSA as well.

The cons are that its behind a fence and much of the game is non-native to that area or is a man-made color phase that does not occur in nature. (e.g. Golden Wildebeest, any of the numerous colors of springbok, etc.) The other con is that you don't get to see true wilderness areas or be surprised by what you chance encounter in a given region. The quality and availability of Dangerous Game in RSA is mixed, their buffalo can be exceptional, there are better places to hunt elephant, lion, and leopard, they are probably the only place to hunt rhino depending on the year.

 

[Rhoyland4]

Read through your post earlier, but I have not been to Africa yet so I was just gathering information for myself. Then I got on YouTube to watch hunts and what pops up but one at Hercules Safaris. Here is the link.

 

[375Fox]

Precisely, 99.9% of South Africa is high fenced which is a key difference between wild Africa and "game under husbandry" Africa.

The pros are big ones: The land owner owns his game and he can assign prices as he sees fit, thus there are bargains on some species in RSA. They are also livestock, not wildlife, which means the operator does not have to follow Fish & Game seasons or limits, he can invite guests to hunt his personally owned resources any day of the year. The other pro is that the animals are actively managed for size and horn quality, often being fed special dietary supplements that result in sound health, bigger size, less disease, etc. You'll statistically kill larger trophies in RSA than in wilderness areas in other countries. You'll also be able to get in and out of the country efficiently saving you time. (e.g. it takes me 5 days roundtrip to get to and from camp in Zim, RSA would be <3 days) Accommodations are generally better to much better in RSA as well.

The cons are that its behind a fence and much of the game is non-native to that area or is a man-made color phase that does not occur in nature. (e.g. Golden Wildebeest, any of the numerous colors of springbok, etc.) The other con is that you don't get to see true wilderness areas or be surprised by what you chance encounter in a given region. The quality and availability of Dangerous Game in RSA is mixed, their buffalo can be exceptional, there are better places to hunt elephant, lion, and leopard, they are probably the only place to hunt rhino depending on the year.

I agree with some of the sentiment here but I find some a gross exaggeration. I’ve had opportunity to hunt free range in Limpopo, eastern cape, and adjacent Kruger. Limpopo definitely has a very high percentage of fenced hunting land, greater than 90% is probably likely. However, eastern cape has a lot of low fenced property. I’ve seen some unique offers other regions as well. I’ve hunted properties where supplemental feed was out but not the intense feeding regimen you describe. 50” kudu at a reasonable price sell faster than high 50s at high prices. Most landowners aren’t going to invest that much in feed when the demand isn’t there (at needed pricing) except in droughts. The non-native species and unnatural numbers of color variants really bothers me, but there are properties managed as wild. It might not be bumping into a lion on a stalk or seeing a leopard walk up a river, but there can a lot of chance encounters such as a bushbuck or bushpig or other unexpected game animal. There are outfitters and properties where you can simply go and hunt. It’s not always going for X species on a particular farm on a particular day. Asking how long outfitters have hunted particular properties, how many other outfitters hunt same properties, and size of properties can give a lot of insight into an operation. I unfortunately think South African hunting has moved more towards farming and breeding than authentic hunting but it is still available.

 

[CoElkHunter]

4750 for a kudu??? F...me I can kill buff for that.....

With your .458WM? LOL

 

[mark-hunter]

You should look at the prices list from that outfit. 650-950 for warthog. 4750 for a kudu over 52" and wildebeest is $1650.

Auuuuu!

 

[Bowfisher]

That was a hard video for me to watch. Lots of secondary shots required, and rifle shooting out of a helicopter? Is this normal practice for rifle hunters??

 

[Kudu2024]

JImP_Thank you for the advice and help. I will definitely check with Travel Express. As far as guns I was thinking of using theirs to save on the hassle of traveling with guns. What is your thoughts on this?

IvW_I didnt pay anything. It was a drawing at the NWTF show this past weekend.

Traveling with your own rifle is not a problem. My outfitter did all my paperwork for free. It was much easier than i thought. 4457 (for rifle), SAP's 520(a), Lodge Invitation, even walked me through all the airline paperwork and helped with Rand money.

 

[rookhawk]

Read through your post earlier, but I have not been to Africa yet so I was just gathering information for myself. Then I got on YouTube to watch hunts and what pops up but one at Hercules Safaris. Here is the link.

In another thread the most accurate and polite description of that operator was "they tend to focus on inexperienced clients". So do timeshare salesman. There was quite a bit of yuck going on in this video for my tastes and I think the critique of another operator applies equally here. To each their own, but it sure does seem like a tremendous sum of money for a hunt in a menagerie with the the shots occurring at the feed pens.