J.P. Sauer Double

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gentleman tonight I Believe I made the deal of the year , I traded a Bakial double 12 and a cooey model 82 for a j p sauer and sohn double 12.

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Thank you I'm only a young man but I believe with care it will see me out. The Bakial was a funtional shotgun but didn't handle or point well.
 
A beautiful box lock ... Indeed , Skinnersblade . What degree of chokes are on it ? Does it have extractors or ejectors ? What is the chamber length ?
 
I do not see a 70 (70mm) anywhere on the barrel flats which would normally indicate this gun has a 67mm (2.5 inch chambers). If that is so, do not shoot 1 1/4 ounce 2 3/4 inch rounds in it. You probably won't do any real harm shooting 2 3/4 / 1 1/8 ounce loads, but 2 1/2 inch loads would be easier on the gun. Somewhere on it, probably the barrel flat (the pictures are blurry) is a three digit code. It will tell you the month and year of manufacture. If pre- WWII, that increases the likelihood of 2 1/2 inch chambers. The forend seems to be a replacement. I can't tell from the pictures if the butstock is as well. Obviously, some previous owner (not an experienced gunsmith) tried mucking around the interior of the action while using a bad fitting screw driver. Were it mine, I would take it to a gunsmith who knows his way around a double and have it thoroughly checked out. Sauers are indeed great guns, but it would be comforting to know this one hasn't been left with issues through abuse.

Lots of these made there way to North America with returning troops. They were then used with heavy loads and many are off the face or have loosened barrel solder. A quick check is to take off the forend, leave the barrels in place, and give the gun a shake. Any movement is a bad thing. Then remove the barrels and suspend them by the forend hook while tapping them with the wooden handle of a hammer. They should ring like a bell. If the sound is more like a clunk, then that too is a bad thing.

Hope you found a diamond in the rough.
 
A beautiful box lock ... Indeed , Skinnersblade . What degree of chokes are on it ? Does it have extractors or ejectors ? What is the chamber length ?

It is choked full and full with 2 3/4 chambers and extractors, I shot ten clays with it last night and it functions flawlessly and shoulders well. I'm far more pleased with it then the Russian made double I traded for it.
 
Ok. I finally found my proof mark book. The crown S, crown U, and crown W indicate that this is an East German gun that was built after 1950 and before 1970 when Sauer marked guns were no longer produced in the east. The production floor was taken by the Soviets in '45 and then manufacturing was resumed in Suhl using the Sauer name around 1950. They are fairly rare because after the war, the West Germans legally began to manufacture Sauer after the owner sold the rights in the West. A similar thing happened with Zeiss optics. Obviously, West Germany was not an eager importer of what they considered to be a bootleg product.

The post-war communist guns need to be judged individually. Many of the same craftsmen who built the wonderful pre-war Suhl made Sauers were now building the same guns in the newly created East German workers' paradise. One will be a terrific work of craftsmanship, the next might have excellent metal work and a 2x4 for a stock. One set of engraving is first rate and the next cartoonish. Nevertheless, they generally were solid guns. However, this is one more reason to have it thoroughly checked over by a good gunsmith.

One good thing is that the East German guns had 70mm chambers.
 
Ok. I finally found my proof mark book. The crown S, crown U, and crown W indicate that this is an East German gun that was built after 1950 and before 1970 when Sauer marked guns were no longer produced in the east. The production floor was taken by the Soviets in '45 and then manufacturing was resumed in Suhl using the Sauer name around 1950. They are fairly rare because after the war, the West Germans legally began to manufacture Sauer after the owner sold the rights in the West. A similar thing happened with Zeiss optics. Obviously, West Germany was not an eager importer of what they considered to be a bootleg product.

The post-war communist guns need to be judged individually. Many of the same craftsmen who built the wonderful pre-war Suhl made Sauers were now building the same guns in the newly created East German workers' paradise. One will be a terrific work of craftsmanship, the next might have excellent metal work and a 2x4 for a stock. One set of engraving is first rate and the next cartoonish. Nevertheless, they generally were solid guns. However, this is one more reason to have it thoroughly checked over by a good gunsmith.

One good thing is that the East German guns had 70mm chambers.

Thank you redleg for your knowledge, I will be going to my gunsmith soon anyway as he's going to convert a cape gun into a double rifle for me. I will take it with me and have it inspected then. I shot ten clays with it last night and it funtioned flawlessly and shoulders and points far better then my Bakial did.
 
Ok. I finally found my proof mark book. The crown S, crown U, and crown W indicate that this is an East German gun that was built after 1950 and before 1970 when Sauer marked guns were no longer produced in the east. The production floor was taken by the Soviets in '45 and then manufacturing was resumed in Suhl using the Sauer name around 1950. They are fairly rare because after the war, the West Germans legally began to manufacture Sauer after the owner sold the rights in the West. A similar thing happened with Zeiss optics. Obviously, West Germany was not an eager importer of what they considered to be a bootleg product.

The post-war communist guns need to be judged individually. Many of the same craftsmen who built the wonderful pre-war Suhl made Sauers were now building the same guns in the newly created East German workers' paradise. One will be a terrific work of craftsmanship, the next might have excellent metal work and a 2x4 for a stock. One set of engraving is first rate and the next cartoonish. Nevertheless, they generally were solid guns. However, this is one more reason to have it thoroughly checked over by a good gunsmith.

One good thing is that the East German guns had 70mm chambers.

If I'm to understand correctly I traded one commie for another? I did not realize they were manufactured and controlled but the Russians.
 
They took over the original Zeiss works in Jena as well, and the East Germans started to produce "Zeiss" binos and scopes even though the real company was now located in the West. They are an even worse product, because the Russians took all the original equipment and every technician who had not fled west back to the Soviet Union. The guns tend to be better, because many of the original craftsmen who survived the war in Suhl went to work for the new East German "Sauer" company. The guns were manufactured to the same specifications generally as the pre-war guns. Yours, for instance, appears identical to a 30's era trigger plate action JP Sauer. As I say, judge the individual gun.

Some western countries (perhaps Canada?) as part of the early outreach to the Eastern Block, imported some of these products. That may be how it found its way to your neighborhood.

I would add that I personally would much rather have a Communist block Sauer than any Baikal.
 
Older thread, but I respectfully disagree with Red Leg. This gun, in my opinion is prewar. This is a lower grade Sauer boxlock gun, but they are still nice doubles and usually pretty light weight. I would agree with Red Leg that it is most likely a 65mm chamber. Use 65mm shells in it. Postwar GDR guns should be dated with a 3 digit date code and also typically have the quality level stamped on the side of the lug (for instance the often seen Q1). I'm assuming those are absent from the barrel flats and lug. Additionally, the gauge (in this case 12) marked in a circle was used until 1945. This gun should feel very lithe compared to the fencepost Baikal. Hope she's still treating you well...
 
Older thread, but I respectfully disagree with Red Leg. This gun, in my opinion is prewar. This is a lower grade Sauer boxlock gun, but they are still nice doubles and usually pretty light weight. I would agree with Red Leg that it is most likely a 65mm chamber. Use 65mm shells in it. Postwar GDR guns should be dated with a 3 digit date code and also typically have the quality level stamped on the side of the lug (for instance the often seen Q1). I'm assuming those are absent from the barrel flats and lug. Additionally, the gauge (in this case 12) marked in a circle was used until 1945. This gun should feel very lithe compared to the fencepost Baikal. Hope she's still treating you well...
Traded that shotgun for a Cz bob white and 1200 dollars Canadian. My smith run the proof marks and came up with oct. 1921 and 2 1/2 chambers.
 
I’ve been considering one if I can find the ‘project upland’ version anywhere. I’ve heard about he length of pull seeming sort of short for an average sized man. Do you find that the be the case?

Perfect for my needs , I’m a hunter not a collector.
 
I’ve been considering one if I can find the ‘project upland’ version anywhere. I’ve heard about he length of pull seeming sort of short for an average sized man. Do you find that the be the case?
The one I’ve got was lightly used when I got it, the stock was squared on the end and atleast a 1” maybe even a 1 1/4” pad has been added. It fits well now right at 14 3/4 lop but I’m unsure of the original length as some was lost in the squaring process.
 
Now THATS a heck of a trade. You definitely made out on that deal.
It had to happen someday generally I’m not as inclined to luck. I bought a 71/84 Mauser for a gentleman whom just had to have it for his collect and am still waiting to be paid for it, that’s been over a year. I’ve got a lee enfield in the gun cabinet I’m holding until the gentleman can come up with the money for a cord of wood I sold him. I haven’t sold wood sense I graduated high school in 2011... those are more common deals around here.
 

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