Is retiring to Africa a wise decision?

[ActionBob]

One huge issue is the travel between the US and anywhere in Africa.

 

[RichieG]

One huge issue is the travel between the US and anywhere in Africa.

Are you referring to the expense Abob?

 

[sgt_zim]

Are you referring to the expense Abob?

For me, it's just airtime. A solid 17 - 19 hours of air time to go from Houston to Jo'burg, and that's flying UA or Delta. Never mind the layover + routine delays at EWR or ATL.

My buddy flew UA and I flew Qatar. The return trip, his total travel time was only about 3 hours less than mine flying through Doha.

 

[Mopani]

I’m German living in South Africa for over 40 years. Plenty of German nationalists are here, some Americans as well. I guess most of them are in the Western Cape. I have been to Zimbabwe quite often, that’s a place where I never would invest a cent. Of course that’s my personal view, others might have different opinions.

My hometown is Hermanus, Western Cape, surely one of the most favorite spots in the country. Another nice place, completely different though, is the capital of the safari world: Hoedspruit, close to Kruger National Park and of course next to the stunning Private Game Reserves, part of Greater Kruger. As a guide I’m often in that area.

 

[ActionBob]

Are you referring to the expense Abob?

Yes, financial, time, and misery. We are to the point we really don't want to fly that distance in coach any longer. And going business class does cut the misery level considerably. It takes us 2 days each way and then there is the jet lag...

Having said all that, it is very intriguing! Especially if staying a month or more, and honestly where we live now the worst part of the year is July and August. Which other than finding the fishing not being good that time of year, Vic Falls was extremely pleasant weather This year was the first time I was in Africa during cooler weather. It was downright cold at night in Limpopo. I haven't checked but would imagine Cape Town and certainly the East Cape might be too cold for @Just Gina Farther North in Africa is intriguing. So is a fishing cottage in Canada, or a place in the mountains with view of a Glacier....

 

[ActionBob]

I’m German living in South Africa for over 40 years. Plenty of German nationalists are here, some Americans as well. I guess most of them are in the Western Cape. I have been to Zimbabwe quite often, that’s a place where I never would invest a cent. Of course that’s my personal view, others might have different opinions.

My hometown is Hermanus, Western Cape, surely one of the most favorite spots in the country. Another nice place, completely different though, is the capital of the safari world: Hoedspruit, close to Kruger National Park and of course next to the stunning Private Game Reserves, part of Greater Kruger. As a guide I’m often in that area.

What is the process for investing or buying a place in RSA? How does one go about finding a reputable attorney and be assured everything is secure? Can a non resident open a bank account?

 

[Hogpatrol]

South Africa snow storm? You got it! Don't forget your chains.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/multiple-roads-closed-as-motorists-are-trapped-in-snow-in-kwazulu-natal-free-state-ee1bbb9b-1608-48ee-ae08-3c13d4aef2b6

 

[RichieG]

For me, it's just airtime. A solid 17 - 19 hours of air time to go from Houston to Jo'burg, and that's flying UA or Delta. Never mind the layover + routine delays at EWR or ATL.

My buddy flew UA and I flew Qatar. The return trip, his total travel time was only about 3 hours less than mine flying through Doha.

Fair enough its a long old haul so better to come for a long time and maybe stop of somewhere like London, Frankfurt, Paris for a few days to break it up? Honestly Europe to SA is a pretty painless 11 hours overnight. A drink and a meal or perhaps just a stilnox if it works for you and you are there!

 

[RichieG]

Yes, financial, time, and misery. We are to the point we really don't want to fly that distance in coach any longer. And going business class does cut the misery level considerably. It takes us 2 days each way and then there is the jet lag...

Having said all that, it is very intriguing! Especially if staying a month or more, and honestly where we live now the worst part of the year is July and August. Which other than finding the fishing not being good that time of year, Vic Falls was extremely pleasant weather This year was the first time I was in Africa during cooler weather. It was downright cold at night in Limpopo. I haven't checked but would imagine Cape Town and certainly the East Cape might be too cold for @Just Gina Farther North in Africa is intriguing. So is a fishing cottage in Canada, or a place in the mountains with view of a Glacier....

Yes SA is a big country and the climate is not the same everywhere that is for sure.
Generally speaking, the whole country other than the Western Cape region, has dry winters and wetter summers.
The Western Cape has dry, hot Mediterranean summers and wet cool winters while the rest of the country has dry cool winters and warm wetter summers
Joburg is 5000-6000ft above sea level so never humid, has cool evenings and cold winter nights and bright sunny winter days. Maybe the best climate on the planet ...there are other issues though.
Limpopo has dry cool winters (warmer than Joburg as it is lower) and hot summers with thunderstorms.
Mpumalanga has warmer dry winters (lower again than Limpopo) and hotter and wetter summers.
KZN is like Mpumalanga at the coast but in the midlands it is more like Joburg.
Karoo and Northern Cape is very dry (a bit wetter in summer) and can get cold nights in winter.

If i had to choose and had no obligations I would spend:

• May at the beach in northern KZN or Mozambique (fishing and surfing and diving),
• June, July, August in Mpumalanga, Limpopo and Karoo and Northern Cape (and Zim) Hunting,
• September in Mozambique fishing,
• October, November in the Southern Cape playing golf and chasing Guineafowl
• and December -April in CT enjoying the magnificent weather, great wine, fishing for tuna, surfing and preparing for next year

It's pretty much the most beautiful country ive been too having visited about 75 countries around the world. Diversity, weather, opportunity and ease of getting around. Im a little biased of course

 

[RichieG]

What is the process for investing or buying a place in RSA? How does one go about finding a reputable attorney and be assured everything is secure? Can a non resident open a bank account?

There are no restrictions on foreign ownership of land in SA. Land title is secure (more so than in europe and UK) and taking transfer is a easily understood process.

I think you can to open a non-resident bank account at one of the big banks

1. Standard Bank
2. First National Bank
3. Nedbank
4. Absa
5. Investec

They are all national but I would use Investec who have great customer service. I'm a customer of a few of them and investec are best for getting stuff done.

Like buying any property anywhere you definitely need to pay attention. There are always a few charlatans looking to get their hands on your cash with promises of deals, discounts etc.

SA has absolute title, long term leases (registered) short term leases (not registered) and sectional title (absolute title with common use areas). I'd look a website at a reputable agent like Pam Golding and ask someone you know well enough and trust to assist. If you find something to buy/lease/make an offer on, dm me and I'll put you in touch with a reputable law firm who have helped me and been excellent. You need to understand the risk of land claims and specific SA law terms like Voetstoots and that's why paying up for the right attorney (and no these are not US prices thankfully) is worth it.

Good luck.

 

[Borderer]

There are no restrictions on foreign ownership of land in SA. Land title is secure (more so than in europe and UK) and taking transfer is a easily understood process.

I think you can to open a non-resident bank account at one of the big banks

1. Standard Bank
2. First National Bank
3. Nedbank
4. Absa
5. Investec

They are all national but I would use Investec who have great customer service. I'm a customer of a few of them and investec are best for getting stuff done.

Like buying any property anywhere you definitely need to pay attention. There are always a few charlatans looking to get their hands on your cash with promises of deals, discounts etc.

SA has absolute title, long term leases (registered) short term leases (not registered) and sectional title (absolute title with common use areas). I'd look a website at a reputable agent like Pam Golding and ask someone you know well enough and trust to assist. If you find something to buy/lease/make an offer on, dm me and I'll put you in touch with a reputable law firm who have helped me and been excellent. You need to understand the risk of land claims and specific SA law terms like Voetstoots and that's why paying up for the right attorney (and no these are not US prices thankfully) is worth it.

Good luck.

I am interested in your comment about land title being more secure than the UK.

I work for a property consultancy in England and Scotland and I would have thought that England is very secure, Scotland perhaps less so with growing restrictions on larger landholdings. I would estimate that around a third of the land sold in our area in the last 15 years has been to overseas buyers (Europe and various Arab states) and a high proportion of the largest landowners in the country are European. My immediate farm neighbours include Hungarians, Arabs and a Canadian.


I have a South African colleague and his view was that South Africa is less secure (this is the main reason he moved to the UK, although I am fairly certain he will move back at some point) and a farm near us has recently been purchased by South Africans as they wanted a back up plan. Oddly, there are a lot of South Africans in our immediate area, I don’t know what has attracted them to the Scottish Borders in particular!

I am not looking for an argument at all, I am genuinely interested.

 

[dogcat1]

Good friend dropped $25 million into a RSA ranch and hunting reserve. Stunning property and lots of game. He did this so he could retire there and live in Oklahoma part of the year. Worked out great until labor issues, tax issues and other issues wore him down and he sold out.

Not sure what the issues were but managing a property from the USA and traveling back and forth wore him down. If you plan to live there, I suspect you can make it work, but it will be challenging.

 

[Borderer]

I think the main issue is trying to manage a business from afar. I have seen so many similar problems in the UK of investors buying or inheriting a farm and then leaving the management to someone who is not trustworthy. This sometimes is not apparent for many years.

I like the idea of living in Africa and the recent debacle over UK school fees (private school fees have gone up by 6% a year for many years and the government is now applying a 20% tax plus property taxes on the schools) makes South Africa look very appealing.

I know someone who has recently moved their daughters to a South African school from a very similar UK school. They are very happy and the fees are less than a third of the UK equivalent.

If I wasn’t tied to a family business here, I would seriously think about moving. I definitely would want the bulk of my capital outside Africa though!

 

[RichieG]

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I am interested in your comment about land title being more secure than the UK.

I work for a property consultancy in England and Scotland and I would have thought that England is very secure, Scotland perhaps less so with growing restrictions on larger landholdings. I would estimate that around a third of the land sold in our area in the last 15 years has been to overseas buyers (Europe and various Arab states) and a high proportion of the largest landowners in the country are European. My immediate farm neighbours include Hungarians, Arabs and a Canadian.


I have a South African colleague and his view was that South Africa is less secure (this is the main reason he moved to the UK, although I am fairly certain he will move back at some point) and a farm near us has recently been purchased by South Africans as they wanted a back up plan. Oddly, there are a lot of South Africans in our immediate area, I don’t know what has attracted them to the Scottish Borders in particular!

I am not looking for an argument at all, I am genuinely interested.

it’s a fair question. It’s actually a legal observation on how absolute the real rights of ownership are. If you imagine a continuum of rights starting at not secure on the left to absolutely secure on the right SA has very clear absolute rights of title. More so than most foreign markets and it is because of the evolution of Roman Dutch law in SA. It means as the owner the ability of other to claim title is extremely limited once title has passed.

The question you may be asking is how secure are the rights in the context of land claims etc. It’s a slightly different question but important. The ability to expropriate land exists in all jurisdictions and in SA and the courts and legislation insist on market value as compensation. There are very few expropriations I have heard of recently but perhaps others more current may know better.

 

[RichieG]

I think the main issue is trying to manage a business from afar. I have seen so many similar problems in the UK of investors buying or inheriting a farm and then leaving the management to someone who is not trustworthy. This sometimes is not apparent for many years.

I like the idea of living in Africa and the recent debacle over UK school fees (private school fees have gone up by 6% a year for many years and the government is now applying a 20% tax plus property taxes on the schools) makes South Africa look very appealing.

I know someone who has recently moved their daughters to a South African school from a very similar UK school. They are very happy and the fees are less than a third of the UK equivalent.

If I wasn’t tied to a family business here, I would seriously think about moving. I definitely would want the bulk of my capital outside Africa though!

Life in a warm climate, money in a cold climate is an old African saying!

 

[ActionBob]

Yes SA is a big country and the climate is not the same everywhere that is for sure.
Generally speaking, the whole country other than the Western Cape region, has dry winters and wetter summers.
The Western Cape has dry, hot Mediterranean summers and wet cool winters while the rest of the country has dry cool winters and warm wetter summers
Joburg is 5000-6000ft above sea level so never humid, has cool evenings and cold winter nights and bright sunny winter days. Maybe the best climate on the planet ...there are other issues though.
Limpopo has dry cool winters (warmer than Joburg as it is lower) and hot summers with thunderstorms.
Mpumalanga has warmer dry winters (lower again than Limpopo) and hotter and wetter summers.
KZN is like Mpumalanga at the coast but in the midlands it is more like Joburg.
Karoo and Northern Cape is very dry (a bit wetter in summer) and can get cold nights in winter.

If i had to choose and had no obligations I would spend:

• May at the beach in northern KZN or Mozambique (fishing and surfing and diving),
• June, July, August in Mpumalanga, Limpopo and Karoo and Northern Cape (and Zim) Hunting,
• September in Mozambique fishing,
• October, November in the Southern Cape playing golf and chasing Guineafowl
• and December -April in CT enjoying the magnificent weather, great wine, fishing for tuna, surfing and preparing for next year

It's pretty much the most beautiful country ive been too having visited about 75 countries around the world. Diversity, weather, opportunity and ease of getting around. Im a little biased of course

We were quite impressed with Spain as being a beautiful and apparently safe place.

The Texas Hill Country, especially the part we live in, is quite beautiful and other than July and August being really hot and a few days in the winter of below freezing temps. The climate is warm and mostly sunny. We do get a few days with high humidity now and then but nothing like San Antonio or Dallas much less Houston.... we've met a LOT of people who moved here from Houston

The thing right here is that land is ridiculously expensive. And really not much opportunities to hunt without owning a good size tract. Shooting yes, real hunting not so much....

I'm of the impression the huge difference between living in Africa and most other places is the low cost labor and readily available high quality domestic help.

And just the general cost of living!

 

[RichieG]

Good friend dropped $25 million into a RSA ranch and hunting reserve. Stunning property and lots of game. He did this so he could retire there and live in Oklahoma part of the year. Worked out great until labor issues, tax issues and other issues wore him down and he sold out.

Not sure what the issues were but managing a property from the USA and traveling back and forth wore him down. If you plan to live there, I suspect you can make it work, but it will be challenging.

$25m or R450m buys a lot in SA. It must have been spectacular. It’s critical to deal with the right people and get someone you trust to run it. In my experience that is where the drama starts where you are seen as a soft touch with money and are far away.

 

[Mopani]

What is the process for investing or buying a place in RSA? How does one go about finding a reputable attorney and be assured everything is secure? Can a non resident open a bank account?

There are plenty immigration consultants available, they can answer all your questions and assist you with the intire process.

Immigration Consults South Africa | Immigration Specialist

IMCOSA is your go-to immigration specialist in South Africa. Expert guidance for all your Immigration Consults in South Africa needs!

imcosa.co.za

 

[Rare Breed]

$25m or R450m buys a lot in SA. It must have been spectacular. It’s critical to deal with the right people and get someone you trust to run it. In my experience that is where the drama starts where you are seen as a soft touch with money and are far away.

I agree. if you buy anything in another country planning on a several month stay you have to start with a plan to have a trust worthy agency or person manage your property when you are not there. In my research this seems to be critical for making this dream work

 

[Borderer]

Part of my job is providing rural property management reports as an independent third party, often as a fresh pair of eyes to suggest improvements to an in house team and over the last 20 years, most to be fair have been ok, but there is a common theme of absent / disinterested owners being taken advantage of, I think often without any malice.

I have only come across a few real shockers but there are lots of instances of massive inefficiencies due to working practices that benefit the employees and not the business, resulting in financial losses.

I personally would be reluctant to invest heavily in any rural business where I did not know the management team very well or could not be on site all of the time. Saying that, I have seen some instances where it has worked out very well.