In search of a used double for first hunt in Zimbabwe

Those of us that have learned to road is rough kinda experiences are trying to help.

Trust me I wish I had spoken with @rookhawk @Mark A Ouellette and our dear departed friend Cal Pappas alot more when I started down this road to doubles.

Shoot and hunting with doubles is very rewarding! but you have to accept the limitations of the platform knowing there are shots you won't be able to ethically take that would be a chip shot with a scoped bolt or scoped single shot.

I am in the same boat as @rookhawk that if you are not willing to spend the money for a quality double and ammo to practice till you are compliant shot with a double. You are much better off buying an exceptional bot gun and take the extra $$$ to practice and have funds left over for a nice safari.
 
I looking everywhere for any used Kreighoff and I dont know much about the Chapuis?
If you are interested in rifles from germany: i live here and if i can help, let me know.

Should be a few nice ones here for you.

a friend ia parting from his Safari Rifles, but no dpubles, only Sauer 202 Takedowns.
 
It is no different than leaning to use double triggers. Practice, practice, practice.

My complaint is probably harsh because I had extensive double trigger + tang safety experience before I owned a double rifle. (I shoot exclusively SxS shotguns) 25 years of disengaging the safety as I draw up and immediately snap-fire instinctively created muscle memory that does not work with a Krieghoff DR or the O/U small bore Heyms that use a similar system.

I wish the modern double rifle manufacturers would use the old English "bolted safety" feature that was an option on vintage Lancaster rifles. I understand not wanting an unplanned discharge, but I do not like the cocking mechanism forces required the K-gun has in lieu of a regular safety.
 
The question that I have regarding the operation of a Heym 89B is: just HOW would someone, gunsmith notwithstanding use a DRILL to open it?
 
There is a .470 and a .450/.400 krieghoff in the upcoming rock island auction.

Just remember to factor in the buyers premium.
Yeah I bought a Merkel .500 from them last year. All said and done my $7,500 rifle which I won turned into costing me over 10k. Not complaining, just be aware if you go the auction house route all of the fees, insurance, taxes, shipping, etc. My only gripe is that it was listed by them as having "ejectors" and it had extractors....
 
Buy a Heym and don't look back. Best working double on the market and holds it's value.
Two year wait, if you're lucky, for a new order Heym DR. And there do not seem to be many used ones up for sale.
 
Hmmm, I’ve heard a lot of things but often my mind brain takes me back to Edger Allen Poe's writing of a popular adage of the early 1800’s, “Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.”

While it may have happened much as you heard it, the probability of a Heym 89B action locking up so bad a gunsmith had to use a drill to open it is, well please refer to the above listed adage.

Having loaded my own ammunition for 50 years, I have occasionally had to use a rubber mallet to open a bolt during load development. Also, on SxS shotguns, I’ve had to use my thigh as a pivot point to open an action or two. The preceding abuses of long guns were totally my fault.

I have however NEVER locked up an action due to a bullet, a tip, a point, or projectile. Never. I’ve had a squib load where the bullet was stuck halfway down the barrel of a 1911 pistol. That’s what a primer without powder will do! It should not have happened but loading 4 grains of Bullseye powder in a .45 ACP cartridge on a progressive press, well shxt happens very occasionally. Competitive pistol shooters know that if the action doesn’t cycle to check for the results of a squib load.

Now, if by improperly using the term bullet for cartridge, then improperly loaded cartridges can lock up an action. But the shooter would have had to force the action closed. For that, the old “Break open the gun against the thigh”, trick is called for.

So maybe a Heym 89B locked up so hard that a drill had to be used to open the action. Perhaps a handful of sand somehow got between the barrel and action and it was closed hard on that. Or a cartridge loaded so hot that the brass when fires was forced into the firing pin hole on the standing breach. Whatever the case, that was not the fault of the rifle. More likely it was operator error being the cause.

Here is what a Heym will do. This is my 88B in .458 Winchester Magnum, made in 1986 can still do. I’ve been her caretaker for the past four years and put 600 full power loads through her. I do not know how many times the late original caretaker shot her but over 35 years, perhaps 500 to 1000. The caretaker's son provided that he accompanied his father hunting all over sub-Saharan Africa. He stated his father took several elephant, numerous buffalo, a couple lions, and a rhino with this Heym, For me, she is like a Timex watch, takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Further, she has never ever even come close to being hard to open.

50 yard groups shot from standing bench. Trijicon SRO with 1 MOA dot for the sight. Aim small, miss small...
View attachment 705251

Low right group less than 1.5". Moved sight up and to the right.
View attachment 705252


Close up of two Right & Left barrel groups
View attachment 705253

Another sight adjustment and a clean target results in 1.25" groups at 50 yards.
Considering the center to center of the bores is .86" the divergence from the center is .39". Let's call it 4/10 of an inch, or 10mm for my foreign friends. That's pretty close to parallel! In theory, this should be less than a 2" group at 100 yards. I've never shot her that well but I have shot many 4-shot 100 yard groups that I can cover with my fist.
View attachment 705254

My Trusty Heym on the standing bench. The bench is a surveyor tripod and a MTM standing bench top. The surveyor tripod is much more steady than the flimsy metal tripod that came with the top.
View attachment 705255

Heym on bench close up
View attachment 705256
Mark is very knowledgeable about DRs and can shoot the eyes out of a fly with one!!!
 
Be careful.
Be real careful.
There are many "good used doubles" out there.
There is a reason they are "out there".
Unless you really know double, you need the help of George Casswell or JJ Peridou or the guys at William Larkin Moore and sons.
There are many many pitfalls with used doubles.

If this is your first foray into this, I would just go with a good bolt rifle for a dangerous game hunt.
 
i recently went to the berretta gallery in NYC and was very impressed with the chapuis and they are for sure a real possibility
aminkus, the only question is how much time do you have before your hunt?
I have a Rigby 500NE that I have had for over 25 years. Wouldn't trade it for any other firearm. I can't anyway because it is spoken for by family.

I look at it this way: somehow we justify spending a fair amount of money on depreciating assets ( cars/trucks) but have to justify the purchase of an asset, that if of good quality, will be enjoyed for many years not be a hit to the balance sheet. I see buying a fine firearm is just taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other.

a lot of good advice here, my 2 cents is if i bought new, i'd order an Hyem 89B in 500 NE.

Have fun & enjoy the journey.
 
An interesting video on the difficulty of SxS doubles. Shotguns and DRs
The brand isn’t as important as the point that after watching how much labor goes into these things. It’s actually surprising they don’t cost more.

 
An interesting video on the difficulty of SxS doubles. Shotguns and DRs
The brand isn’t as important as the point that after watching how much labor goes into these things. It’s actually surprising they don’t cost more.

I didn't intend on watching the whole thing...then I got sucked in and really enjoyed it. Thanks @Altitude sickness.
 
aminkus, the only question is how much time do you have before your hunt?
I have a Rigby 500NE that I have had for over 25 years. Wouldn't trade it for any other firearm. I can't anyway because it is spoken for by family.

I look at it this way: somehow we justify spending a fair amount of money on depreciating assets ( cars/trucks) but have to justify the purchase of an asset, that if of good quality, will be enjoyed for many years not be a hit to the balance sheet. I see buying a fine firearm is just taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other.

a lot of good advice here, my 2 cents is if i bought new, i'd order an Hyem 89B in 500 NE.

Have fun & enjoy the journey.
Funny you should mention that - I picked mine up today. I will try to get some better pictures tomorrow.
IMG_1828.jpeg
IMG_1829.jpeg
 
Just buy it! I struggled a long time and then just did it. Best move I made. I choose a o/u for my first and do think they are a better value. You will need to hand load to get good accuracy. Regulation takes time and patience, but it’s worth the effort.
 
I copied this post from @Franco 's thread of receiving his Heym 89B after a two year wait.

"Most of the inventory Chris had on hand was to fill orders; he did have a couple 416 Rigbys - so I talked myself into one."

I must say that your Martini Express makes me want to rob my retirement account to fulfill my gun lust! Must resist temptation... I handled a Martini Express in .458 Lott at the DSC 2024 Convention. It was perfection. I tried but couldn't bind the bolt while working it hard at nearly a 45-degree angle. The muzzle was pointed upward for safety of course. It was on sale as a show special and tempted me plenty. It if have been chambered in .416 Rigby, a very functional cartridge, I would have or at least should have bought it.

The Martini Express in .416 Rigby is what @rookhawk advises as a much better use of hard earned and for most of us, long saved dollars instead of an entry level double rifle. I think the cost is approximately $15,000 for which one may find a used Heym 88B. If a 88B double isn’t available, buy a Martini Express and those dreams of a double rifle will be satisfied by the universal functionality, dependability, and beauty of a grand magazine rifle!

@Franco new Heym Martini Express in .416 Rigby
1754649600206.png
 
If you were my son I’d say your 404J is perfect. If you insisted on a double and you were my son, I’d disown you for throwing $15k away you'll never get back on a lesser double of disappointing quality.
While I agree the 404 is perfect, I have made almost 30% on the lesser doubles I have bought, and sold. There is a market for those rifles.
 
An interesting video on the difficulty of SxS doubles. Shotguns and DRs
The brand isn’t as important as the point that after watching how much labor goes into these things. It’s actually surprising they don’t cost more.


Thank you for sharing the video @Altitude sickness. I was very surprised to see young workers, vs a more experienced and seasoned older work force. Oops!
 
One day I hope to own two Heyms.

.450 NE 89b
.404 Jeff martini express

Missed the opportunity to see Ralfs shop here as he lived 10 hours away and could have been measured and ordered a bolt through him.

As Canadian the conversion hurts a lot and prices have only gotten higher. I ended up finding a custom built 450no2 on a shotgun action within my current budget. But would agree somewhat, when push comes to shove I'd want the reliability of a heym in field
 

Forum statistics

Threads
62,503
Messages
1,372,857
Members
120,158
Latest member
MadonnaClo
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

I have an unfired T rex 577 if anyone is interested in acquiring it . Absolutely spotless, flawless and well kept . It's rare as it gets . Mouth watering ? Let me know if you feel like making an offer .
Mr Brown in Calif.
Nevada Mike wrote on 50reloader's profile.
I need to know if this is legit. Photo with today's paper would do it.

Thanks
Monster Impala for Ricky with his trusty bow !
01696dfa-f596-4f46-aafa-2d37c38f3493.jpeg
Andrew NOLA wrote on SethFitzke's profile.
I just saw Budsgunshop.com has both the guide gun and the African for $1150. FWIW - I bought both and decided to use the Guide gun - I restocked it in a Bell and Carlson stock and I added the Alaska arms floor plate to add a round. I wanted the shorter barrel as I will use a suppressor. I wont go lower than $1100, but I will ship it and no sales tax.

Let me know if you are interested
Andrew NOLA wrote on SethFitzke's profile.
I have an unfired Ruger 375 African if you are interested. $1,100 shipped to you

Bought it earlier this year

Andrew
504-453-7588
 
Top