IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[mdwest]

So I guess my question is....

What about a 4457 with NO expiration date on it?

I just got a 4457 at the local CBP office in February. The customs officer there refused to use the typed 4457 (with 2019 expiration on it) that I downloaded and completed online.

I pulled out a pad of 4457's and hand wrote everything in there, signed it, dated it, and put the red stamp in the corner...

The 4457 has the OMB # in the top right corner.. but has NO EXPIRATION DATE anywhere on the front or back of the form..

Is this going to fly? or am I looking at having to go back to CBP and demand that they use the 2019 form?

 

[mdwest]

I was at us customs in Dallas last week. They explained that the forms never expire. The date on the top right is the date of print not the date of expiration.

This is where I got the 4457 mentioned above, and where the customs agent refused to use the 2019 document I brought with me and insisted on using the pad of 4457's he had on hand..

 

[edward]

down loading a new 4457 form is as worthless as used toilet paper.you still have to take your firearms in to customs and do the entire process all over again,thats a 6 to 8 hr process for me to get to a customs office and back home.

 

[jasyblood]

Just a heads up on something that I was notified of last week at the CBP office at DFW regarding the export of firearms....

I had to make two trips there last week(because I apparently can't copy serial numbers down correctly) and both times I was told(by two different officers) that we now have to register our firearms for export through the AES system, even though the CBP website still shows that process suspended.

On the second trip, I pointed out the website info to the officer and he said that they had been instructed a few weeks prior to notify everyone filling out a 4457, that they must do this before checking in for their flight.

I played stupid(not hard for me) the second time and told the officer that I had been on the AES website and it is too complicated to figure out, so he offered to enter the info for me and I let him.

My experience may be an anomaly, but on my first trip, there were two other guys there filling out 4457's and they were told the same thing.

 

[JMM]

I was told the same thing regarding the AES system. I scanned the document to Travel With Guns who is helping with my trip. They emailed me back that this form is not required and the system is suspended until they get the kinks out.

If anything, I think you can white out the print date if traveling to SA?

 

[Red Leg]

I was told the same thing regarding the AES system. I scanned the document to Travel With Guns who is helping with my trip. They emailed me back that this form is not required and the system is suspended until they get the kinks out.

If anything, I think you can white out the print date if traveling to SA?

I really wouldn't suggest altering a federal form - that is slipping into felony territory in this country and just asking for some third world bureaucrat's unwelcome attention.

 

[johnnyblues]

Just spoke to Henry from rifle permits. He has a meeting tomorrow with SAPS for clarity. As of now he's advising hunters to have up to date 4457 forms. I'll post more once Henry gets back to me.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Just spoke to Henry from rifle permits. He has a meeting tomorrow with SAPS for clarity. As of know he's advising hunters to have up to date 4457 forms. I'll post more once Henry gets back to me.

Thanks @johnnyblues!

 

[Areaonereal]

Why is it that the 4457 does not expire, but has an expiration date on the form. Government at its best. I downloaded the newest form and had the local CBP officer sign and stamp of it. He did not have access to that dated form thru his computer system. As he stated...the 4457 is for US Customs officials use and proof for entry into the US not for other countries use or interpretation. I believe that a letter from local law enforcement stating ownership of firearms would satisfy SAPS, of course a 4457 would be needed on reentry to the U S. No mention of AES requirements, I will call Atlanta CBP if it is required. Wish the US would issue a letter or directive that would satisfy every country regarding the expiration date on the 4457 that would explain the 4457 does not expire

 

[Areaonereal]

Has anyone leaving from or returning to the US in the last few weeks with a firearm been required or any enforcement regarding the AES, thru any ports of entry.

 

[Nyati]

That's funny ..... the 4457 is for the return to the USA.......... not for leaving.....

So what is RSA doing about other countries coming in with firearms. ???????? I wonder if this is because of what is going on with FWS and Africa ?????

When I exit Spain, the Border Police gives me a document which is called "Authorization for air transport of firearms to a foreing country", but on top of that I also have a Firearms License and a Registration Card for each of my firearms. I even have a Hunting License.

So just in case, I show them all those documents, plus copies of them.

Never been asked for a bribe by SAPS in five trips

 

[TERMINATOR]

Anybody saying that bribes are only solicited by people "pretending" to work for the airport authority is on drugs.

I cleared Customs and got my SAPS with NO PROBLEM..... and THEN, when I got to the place to check my rifle case to my final destination (Port Elizabeth) they guy IN UNIFORM standing behind the counter watching everybody else work (obviously "the supervisior" or whatever you want to call him) said to me "It sure would be a shame if your gun (he didn't know there were two in the case) went to the wrong airport".

I was like "why would it go to the wrong airport, I just watched your guy tag it for Port Elizabeth?"

His reply was "You never know. Stuff happens" and stood there smiling. He never asked for money but I knew damn well what he wanted.

I had two rifles worth approx $3500 with optics on them. What would you do?

Are you really gonna call his bluff and hope the guy with your $3500 in guns, now out of your reach behind the counter is gonna go ahead and put them on the plane to PE?

Are you gonna go find a Airport Police Officer (who is probably his friend) and report him and be in a his word against mine situation and miss your flight that is departing in a hour while arguing your case? Do you think any of the other people working in the baggage check area that work for him are gonna back you up?

Are you REALLY gonna say "I don't pay bribes so put my gun on the correct plane" and move along to your flight?

No...your gonna do what I did. Cuss under your breath and flip him $50 and PRAY that $50 was enough to insure your guns got put on the plane to PE and not Capetown.

It's all well and good to say "Don't pay bribes" but when it is your expensive firearm(s) in somebody who is in a position of authority in a another country shaking you down and you have 60-90 minutes to make your flight or screw up your hunting trip...you pay the bribe.

It wasn't SAPS office that shook me down...it was the dude running the baggage area where I had to check my guns after leaving SAPS.

 

[CAustin]

I was at us customs in Dallas last week. They explained that the forms never expire. The date on the top right is the date of print not the date of expiration.

What you say is true. What this thread is telling everyone is that the South African Police do not care! Get the new form if you are going!

 

[wesheltonj]

Now if they can just get the guy in the baggage area to stop shaking me down by asking for $$ to make sure my gun gets on the right plane to the East Cape and doesn't end up on a plane to Capetown... (thinly veiled threat that he will make sure my rifle disappears if he is not paid)

Correct, the SAPS officer at JNB collecting my gun for my internal flight asked for her "tip" to "carry the gun out to the 'right' plane". Of course I, "tipped" her.

 

[johnnyblues]

This is a response to our USFW hassling them. Make no mistake. Insane they would require this

 

[johnnyblues]

Correct, the SAPS officer at JNB collecting my gun for my internal flight asked for her "tip" to "carry the gun out to the 'right' plane". Of course I, "tipped" her.

Legalized robbery.

 

[Areaonereal]

I had the same experience as Terminator, upon arrival and departing PE. Have you ever noticed when departing Joberg for a connecting flights you clear your firearm thru the room full of uniformed personnel that always smile, welcome you and want to shake your hand, guess why., grease the palm, no issues. Have you thought how using a rifle clearing pre approval service charges their fee and who they may have to tip? It is all the pay to play game

 

[johnnyblues]

I had the same experience as Terminator, upon arrival and departing PE. Have you ever noticed when departing Joberg for a connecting flights you clear your firearm thru the room full of uniformed personnel that always smile, welcome you and want to shake your hand, guess why., grease the palm, no issues. Have you thought how using a rifle clearing pre approval service charges their fee and who they may have to tip? It is all the pay to play game

That's such bullshit. But what can you do?

 

[Areaonereal]

Pay the tip....we are a guest in a foreign country, so we must play by their rules, we are no more than a living, breathing ATM machine, if you think differently you are being naive

 

[Hogpatrol]

The ones I used in 2013 had no date at all on them. I took different firearms in '14, '15 and '15 and those forms had a 2012 "expiration" date on them. I use Gracy Travel to handle the permits and do the meet and greet deal too. Fly Delta and the firearms go directly from the aircraft to SAPS. Went through SAPS at Joburg like a dose of salts. Have never even had a hint of having to grease a palm. I have to say I think problems arise when hunters try to take shortcuts to save a buck. Pay the freight and get a dependable, reputable agent to handle the permits.