IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[Areaonereal]

CBP sends an e mail to all offices...issue a 4457 as per web page of most current directive. What could be simpler....they work for us... Call your Senator. SCI should have the clout to get this done NOW

 

[Brian Williams]

Regarding my issues with form 4457 in Cleveland, I received this email at 830 am today.


Mr. Williams,

We have contacted the Port Director in the Port of Entry for Cleveland to clarify the situation and to request that their outdated forms be destroyed. We also requested that they order new forms and to allow printed copies in the meantime.

We hope this will resolve your situation as quickly as possible. Officer simply follow the rules that they know. I am so sorry that you have to return to the port for certification. Please hold off to returning to the port until we receive confirmation from the Port Director that he acknowledges the change. I don’t want you to be turned away again.

Have a wonderful and safe trip.

Carrie Ehrgott
International Trade Specialist
US Customs and Border Protection
Office of Trade
Washington, DC
(202) 863-6508


This should rectify the problem at least in my area. My thanks to this site for paying such close attention to this matter and providing links and information. Also, SCI came through big with a rapid response. I am also pleasantly surprised so far at the CPB, I was expecting a longer wait for any response. Less than 1 hour for a response from SCI, 16 hours for CPB in Washington to respond.

Brian

 

[Hogpatrol]

And I am printing out Brian's post too.

 

[Philip Glass]

I sent a nice, polite, loving email to the Minister of Tourism about this issue. To whit, you have a great country, great people and us Americans want you to do well, that not only do we like hunting, we like that it helps support many thousands of people who would otherwise be unemployed. I await their reply.

As an aside, I read in a RSA newspaper that hunters coming to South Africa's are way down from the peak while Namibia's are UP! I'll see if I can dig up the story and paste it here.

From financialmail website, Story headline is Hunting: The colour game is over.
https://www.businesslive.co.za/fm/features/2017-01-26-colour-game-is-over/

In 2014, the latest year for which data is available, 7,638 foreign hunters came to SA, less than half the best-yet figures of 16,394 in 2006.

The big winner is Namibia, a country free of canned hunting and colour variants.

“Foreign-hunter numbers to Namibia grew from 6,300 in 2007 to 23,768 in 2014,” says Flack

I love Namibia!

 

[sierraone]

Regarding my issues with form 4457 in Cleveland, I received this email at 830 am today.


Mr. Williams,

We have contacted the Port Director in the Port of Entry for Cleveland to clarify the situation and to request that their outdated forms be destroyed. We also requested that they order new forms and to allow printed copies in the meantime.

We hope this will resolve your situation as quickly as possible. Officer simply follow the rules that they know. I am so sorry that you have to return to the port for certification. Please hold off to returning to the port until we receive confirmation from the Port Director that he acknowledges the change. I don’t want you to be turned away again.

Have a wonderful and safe trip.

Carrie Ehrgott
International Trade Specialist
US Customs and Border Protection
Office of Trade
Washington, DC
(202) 863-6508


This should rectify the problem at least in my area. My thanks to this site for paying such close attention to this matter and providing links and information. Also, SCI came through big with a rapid response. I am also pleasantly surprised so far at the CPB, I was expecting a longer wait for any response. Less than 1 hour for a response from SCI, 16 hours for CPB in Washington to respond.

Brian

Very polite answer to your problem, considering it being a government agency!

 

[slam8031]

I called the local Customs office ( approx 40 min away) today. I discussed with the agent the issues of the RSA requirements of the 4457. He was readily knowledgeable of the situation. He informed me the form he signed for me on March 3, 2017, would not be allowed in RSA. I arranged a time today after following his suggestion of typing the form info on the first page of this storyline. Four rifles and gear required less than 10 minutes with the Customs agent! I took the older forms of the 4457 and I believe that also saved us some time as well. Other than the aggravation of loading up and going, it was fairly painless.

 

[Ohio Darin]

I'm new here... well not new as I signed up a while ago which got me the Africa bug Anyway instead of getting hung up on form for 4457 has anyone considered an alternative. SAPS website says the required documentation is "A certified copy of a licence, permit, authorization or any other documentary proof confirming the lawful possession of the firearm." Has anyone tried a notarized bill of sale or a concealed carry license? Heading over for the first time next week. Using an agency to pre-approve my rifle. I sent them my 4457 with no expiration from 3 years ago and a copy of my CCW. Told them that is all I had. Figured I would take a notarized bill of sale with me just in case. Unfortunately, I haven't heard if this will work as they said it will only be a couple days before I leave. Just thought I would throw this out there in case it hasn't been discussed. Finally getting real for me and really excited......

 

[Red Leg]

Does your CC license carry the serial number of your rifle? Probably not. The Europeans bring copies of their weapons' registrations/licenses which license particular firearms - not something we do here. The South Africans are now expecting to see the form 4457's from the US in lieu of registration forms. I can almost guarantee your bill of sale will get you quality time discussing your firearm with the South African customs and police. It merely says you purchased a rifle - not that the government said you could lawfully possess it. Obviously, the 4457 doesn't either, but to their eyes, it does show the government acknowledged your possession when you left the country. Not to big a step when you think of it from their position. Anyway, bureaucracy is a terrible thing anywhere - in the third world (apologies to my South African friends - not sure the RSA is Third World yet, but ..........) it has to be experienced to be believed. Get a new form.

 

[JimP]

If you are using a company in South Africa to get your permits approved and they accepted the undated 4457 you may be good to go. I never did have to show my 4457 to anyone in SA when I went over 2 years ago and only pulled it out when I returned to the US when I went through customs.

If I was you and leaving shortly I would email those that are getting your permits for you and make sure that everything is in order. If not you may be scrambling to get it done

 

[Hogpatrol]

I'm new here... well not new as I signed up a while ago which got me the Africa bug Anyway instead of getting hung up on form for 4457 has anyone considered an alternative. SAPS website says the required documentation is "A certified copy of a licence, permit, authorization or any other documentary proof confirming the lawful possession of the firearm." Has anyone tried a notarized bill of sale or a concealed carry license? Heading over for the first time next week. Using an agency to pre-approve my rifle. I sent them my 4457 with no expiration from 3 years ago and a copy of my CCW. Told them that is all I had. Figured I would take a notarized bill of sale with me just in case. Unfortunately, I haven't heard if this will work as they said it will only be a couple days before I leave. Just thought I would throw this out there in case it hasn't been discussed. Finally getting real for me and really excited......

Why do people try to re-invent the wheel? SAP has said over and over again, they will not accept an "expired" 4457. CCW? What the hell is that to South Africa? From this chair, you are looking for trouble and will most likely find it. Good Luck, you'll need it.

p.s. How do you like shooting "rental" rifles?

 

[Philip Glass]

Within a few months you should have a choice, for Zambia and Namibia. Turkish Airlines non stop from Atlanta to Istanbul then on to the capitols of Zambia or Namibia. This is in the process of happening and hasn't been approved yet to my knowledge. The only negative I know of at this time will be that on Turkish Air, all electronics including cameras have to go in the baggage when coming into the U.S. Only electronics allowed in the cabin are cell phones. For those of you that fly digital heavy, this is a big problem. For me and I am sure some others this is not a big issue, all other things being equal.

Within a few months you should have a choice, for Zambia and Namibia. Turkish Airlines non stop from Atlanta to Istanbul then on to the capitols of Zambia or Namibia. This is in the process of happening and hasn't been approved yet to my knowledge. The only negative I know of at this time will be that on Turkish Air, all electronics including cameras have to go in the baggage when coming into the U.S. Only electronics allowed in the cabin are cell phones. For those of you that fly digital heavy, this is a big problem. For me and I am sure some others this is not a big issue, all other things being equal.

That is good news because Turkish is a gun friendly airline! Also you can go from Houston to Istanbul nonstop.
Philip

 

[edward]

Sure... Or you can pay the bribe and not have a $20,000 hunt come to an unhappy end. Since the expiration on the top right is just for the OMB review of time required to complete the document, and since US customs has clearly stated the signed forms NEVER expire in their valid legal standing, it is safe to say this is a move to collect more bribes. Sorry to stir the pot, but saying "don't pay the bribe" is ridiculous armchair quarterbacking from our US based easy chairs. Tell that to 100 hunters sitting at SAPS and I bet 99 of them will pay the piper rather than ruin a hunt.

my question is why our customs dept doesnt tell sap to shove it,take what we have already issued or lose the american moneys that you get every year from hunters,cut your nose off to spite your face.

 

[JimP]

my question is why our customs dept doesnt tell sap to shove it,take what we have already issued or lose the american moneys that you get every year from hunters,cut your nose off to spite your face.

Because our customs office could care less what SAP's says or does. The form is to prove to our US Customs that we owned what we are bringing back from another country and wasn't intended for any other use.

Perhaps we as hunters need to tell SAP's that we are going elsewhere to hunt because of their position on a 4457 form that has really nothing to do with them.

 

[sestoppelman]

CBP probably "couldn't care less" what we think but maybe we should start an email campaign and bombard SAPS with facts about the 4457.

 

[edward]

Because our customs office could care less what SAP's says or does. The form is to prove to our US Customs that we owned what we are bringing back from another country and wasn't intended for any other use.

Perhaps we as hunters need to tell SAP's that we are going elsewhere to hunt because of their position on a 4457 form that has really nothing to do with them.

they might care less but they have to print new forms to kiss saps ass,that cost money.and i dont think American hunters will boy cot africa for hunting,but that would do the job.im not going back until my current 4457s are excepted.

 

[Rikus savhs]

An URGENT message from the Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa:

The South African Police Services’ central firearms desk advised that they will no longer accept America’s Department of Homeland Security’s Certificate of Registration, commonly known as CBP Form 4457, if the date in the top right hand corner has expired.

The NEW CBP Form 4457, is available from Homeland Security’s official website: https://www.cbp.gov/…/docume…/2016-Aug/CBP%20Form%204457.pdf

PHASA wish to alert all hunters traveling to/through South Africa, to obtain a new Certificate of Registration listing their firearms, prior to leaving the United States of America. Other ports of entry elsewhere in the World may follow suit so make sure your 4457 is valid.

PHASA strongly advises hunting clients to pre-apply, through a reputable, registered meet-and-greet agency, for temporary import/export firearm and/or transit permits. Although there is a small fee payable to these service providers, the peace of mind and time saved at the firearm permit office at OR Tambo International Airport, is well worth the effort.

We also request members of the public to treat our South African police officers courteously and in the same manner as they would like to be treated. Paying bribes is not acceptable under any circumstances and hunters are encouraged to expose anyone who tries to extort money or who offers a bribe to an official in order to circumvent due legal procedures.

Thank you for the info.

 

[fourfive8]

Because of my situation I hadn't planned on returning to Africa in the near future- my last trip there being 2016. I've traveled all over including 4 trips to SE Asia this past year (non-hunting related). Believe me I am really tired of BS hassles in airports. I will say that the worst airport treatment I received was in Hong Kong. Tokyo and Guam (both the US side and the independent Guam side) were ok... but amusing is all I'll say. LA has been the worst of the US airports. Manila is a mess but I will say I find the Filipino people to be the most helpful and friendly of all- including the people living in the much maligned destination of Mindanao, Philippines. The Chinese are by far the least helpful and least friendly... to the point of being overtly hostile. In Africa, I find for the most part, including the small airports like Tete, Mozambique, if you are friendly and patient even the most fouled up bureaucratic systems can be overcome by reasonable people. Generally, the people all over southern Africa in my experience are friendly and helpful if given a chance and treated squarely and you are careful to avoid certain, known "high risk areas".

I did think my last safari to Africa was going to be 2016. However, things change and I believe I have one last safari in me so am booked for 2018 (not to RSA). The only thing I can add to this discussion, even though it may have already been covered, is that politicians and bureaucrats (unelected politicians) are all pretty much the same. There's no need trying to figure out why RSA needs a newly issued US 4457 when the "old" one really meant so very little to their boogy man hunt. I don't believe they think the "new" 4457 will help them catch bad guys any more than the old one did. I think politicians and bureaucrats do these type things simply because they can and periodically need to blow smoke if for no other reason than to justify their positions and to make the dumb masses think they are doing something.

If you live close to a CPB office it really is easy to get a "new" 4457 and avoid the hassle with SAPS. Unfortunately I don't, so every time in the past when I've needed a different one for a different rifle or other expensive equipment I had to drive 10 hours to spend 5 minutes in the CBP office getting another 4457. I've always gone thru JNB no matter the country to hunt. It has been the least hassle air travel (sans the silly SAPS stuff) and the Delta ATL to JNB route has always worked well. Also, no matter if going thru RSA or not if you are from US you still have the hassle of the bureaucrat checking you back into the US and asking such enlightened questions as, "where's the serial number on this stock?". Up until now I've sucked it up, gotten the stupid 4457 and done the hoop jump for SAPS and US because I wanted to use my own custom reloaded ammo and my own familiar gun. The near miss with the US imposed IRS-Exporter License requirement for hunters fiasco a couple of years ago almost put me over the edge. The plug was pulled on that piece of crap idea just in time so I went ahead and took my own gun and ammo in 2016. Now this new 4457 POS idea from RSA-SAPS!!! That's the proverbial straw, so I will be using equipment provided by the PH for 2018. He has good rifles and good ammo so no worries. It's just time to throw in the towel, relax as much as possible during the travel and let the bureaucrats on both sides of the pond do their thing protecting the world without me.

 

[sestoppelman]

fourfive8, you don't have a CBP or airport closer than 5 or 10 hours drive? I cannot imagine that is possible in the states. Maybe I am spoiled where I live. CBP is a 20 minute drive and SeaTac is only 2 hours away and Bellingham Airport only about 45 minutes.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@fourfive8, et al, See if your CBP guys have the old 4457s with NO DATE on them. When I called my guys at CBP (they know me by first name, I've been there enough times ), they said they knew what was going on and had a stash of old forms with NO expiration date. Voila! Take that SAPS! All my rifles are now NO DATE 4457ed. If you can get them, you should be good to go for the foreseeable future.

 

[edward]

I envy you guys that are close to customs,im a 6 hr + round trip.