If you had both a 375 and a 416

[AB2506]

So months ago you worthless jerks didn't talk me out of purchasing a 416 so of course I'm weak-willed and I have one on the way. A Kimber Caprivi 416 Rem Mag to be precise. Let's not re-litigate the veracity of a Rem Mag vs a Rigby vs a Ruger...

But if you have both a 375 and a 416, would it change how they are set up? My 416 will be my buff rifle at this point.

Currently have a VX6HD 1-6x24 on the 375 zeroed at 100 but thinking I'll replace that with a 2.5-12.5x42 Trijicon and put the 1-6x24 on the 416. May even drop down from 300 grainers in the 375 to 260/270 grainers and zero it out a bit longer.

I'm definitely going heavy on the 416: 400 grain A-Frames is what I'm thinking.

Thoughts?

Solid reasoning. I won't try to change your mind. If you use a Barnes TSX 270, your 375 is still buffalo capable if you needed it.

 

[Tanks]

... But for the life of me, I still do not get bringing two DG calibers to Africa...

Backup for one of the reasons. On my elephant hunt I had .500 with 500 grainers for elephant and .416 with 225 grainers for Zebras. I had a red dot on the .500 and a scope on the .416

My upcoming hunt I am taking .458 B&M for buffalo/leopard and .375 H&H for PG though if something went wrong with my primary it could work for the DG as well.

 

[bruce moulds]

225GN 416 bullets?
bruce.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

anyone that arrives in africa with a 375H+H is already on the PH's good side!!!
tanks, i would recommend the 375 on the leopard, no need for 458 on a cat

 

[Red Leg]

Backup for one of the reasons. On my elephant hunt I had .500 with 500 grainers for elephant and .416 with 225 grainers for Zebras. I had a red dot on the .500 and a scope on the .416

My upcoming hunt I am taking .458 B&M for buffalo/leopard and .375 H&H for PG though if something went wrong with my primary it could work for the DG as well.

I get the explanation. And you should absolutely to do what makes you comfortable. However, I have never needed a back-up rifle, and have no desire to carry the extra weight of one around with me. After all, we do it on no other international hunts. A totally different caliber for different purposes, sure - two that accomplish the same thing? That said, I assume you .500 was a double, so another rifle for PG makes perfect sense.

Curious why the .458 for leopard? Taking one is normally an optics and accuracy challenge. Normally a .458 would not be a likely choice for such work. In fact, where legal, a good SP from an accurate .300 Win Mag carrying first class optics is hard to beat.

 

[Tanks]

...

Curious why the .458 for leopard? Taking one is normally an optics and accuracy challenge. Normally a .458 would not be a likely choice for such work. In fact, where legal, a good SP from an accurate .300 Win Mag carrying first class optics is hard to beat.

The hunt is buffalo/leopard. At this point I will have a 258 grain tipped raptors for leopard and 420 grain hollow points for the buffalo backed up by 450 grain solids. All same POA/POI at 50 yards and then different BT locations for 258 grainer up to 200 yards.

I do have a first class optic on it, at least I think so, Swarovski Z6i BT 1.7x - 10x. Also, the .458 is accurate and most likely I will just use the 258 grainer on PG as well as it will be good to 200 yards or so.

The .300 would be good if I had one, but it would defeat the purpose of having a back up gun for buffalo as it can't be used for it. BTW, I take a back up for every international hunt (being a lefty I don't care for camp guns). Two is one and one is none .

 

[Red Leg]

The hunt is buffalo/leopard. At this point I will have a 258 grain tipped raptors for leopard and 420 grain hollow points for the buffalo backed up by 450 grain solids. All same POA/POI at 50 yards and then different BT locations for 258 grainer up to 200 yards.

I do have a first class optic on it, at least I think so, Swarovski Z6i BT 1.7x - 10x. Also, the .458 is accurate and most likely I will just use the 258 grainer on PG as well as it will be good to 200 yards or so.

The .300 would be good if I had one, but it would defeat the purpose of having a back up gun for buffalo as it can't be used for it. BTW, I take a back up for every international hunt (being a lefty I don't care for camp guns). Two is one and one is none .

Simply a different view with regard for the need of a backup rifle. The more I travel hunting, the less baggage I care to haul around. Getting rid of a second rifle, particularly an unnecessary one, takes away a lot of pounds. Switching to a Blaser R8 has made an even larger reduction in shear bulk. Taking more than one rifle is not even possible to some destinations. But, as I say, that is my personal preference. My problem, with dramatically different bullets and likely scope settings or holdover for Africa is the potential of having the wrong bullet or wrong setting at the wrong time - and likely not realizing it. Things should be super simple when sitting in the darkness of leopard blind. Your PH may insist as well, but I would make sure and fire a test shot at the exact distance the blind is from the bait once you have a cat working it. If you are using the same scope setting on such dramatically different bullet weights, a few meters difference could mean the difference between a cleanly killed cat and a very long night.

What sort of "hollow point" are you using on your buffalo?

 

[Tanks]

...

What sort of "hollow point" are you using on your buffalo?

CEB Safari Raptor
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/458-420gr-safari-raptor

 

[Rule 303]

CEB Safari Raptor
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/458-420gr-safari-raptor

Just my view but I would not trust those on a buff. Those petals are most likely goibg to come off way earlier than 3" of penetration, then you have a solid missing a some of the weight needed for penetration. If you need to go through bone well the petals are gone on impact and loss of weight. If you are going to use a solid on Buff -and that's what you are intending to do - use a Woodleigh Hydrostatic, B&M or similar.
As I said just my thoughts.

 

[Tanks]

Those bullets have been used successfully on countless buffalo (cape and water) by people I personally know in addition to others. I have also used them on other game. I am pretty confident about the bullets.

 

[thi9elsp]

I'm in a similar situation to the op and others. I bought a 375H&H as my first venture into a bigger rifle and used it on my first Cape buffalo. I then had the opportunity to buy a 404J at a very good price. I plan to remove my 1-4 off the 375 and put something more powerful on it. I have a VX6 3-18. Yes, total overkill on the top end, but it is in my safe and looking for a home. The 404 carries a Zeiss Duralyt 1.25 - 5. I hadn't considered reducing the bullet on the 375 from my current 300 grain but may consider it with what is mentioned here.

I plan to go to Caprivi in 2021 for buffalo and possibly an own use elephant along with Lechwe. I'll take both with the plan to use the 375 for the Lechwe and the 404 for the others. Once I've packed a rifle case the extra weight of second gun doesn't bother me. And, after my troubles shooting in Mozambique with an unfamiliar camp rifle I will bring my own.

 

[Rule 303]

Those bullets have been used successfully on countless buffalo (cape and water) by people I personally know in addition to others. I have also used them on other game. I am pretty confident about the bullets.

And have failed on some that I have heard of. But what it comes down to if your are happy and comfortable to use them then go for it.

 

[Art Lambart II]

I would take both rifles but that's just me on the other hand if I owned a R8 in 375 H&H I would be happy just bringing one rifle. What I don't understand is not using a 300 grain A-Frame or TBBC in the 375, did they stop working on PG or at 300 yards?

 

[Tanks]

... I plan to remove my 1-4 off the 375 and put something more powerful on it. I have a VX6 3-18. Yes, total overkill on the top end, but it is in my safe and looking for a home. The 404 carries a Zeiss Duralyt 1.25 - 5. I hadn't considered reducing the bullet on the 375 from my current 300 grain but may consider it with what is mentioned here.

I plan to go to Caprivi in 2021 for buffalo and possibly an own use elephant along with Lechwe. I'll take both with the plan to use the 375 for the Lechwe and the 404 for the others. Once I've packed a rifle case the extra weight of second gun doesn't bother me. And, after my troubles shooting in Mozambique with an unfamiliar camp rifle I will bring my own.

Yeah, I will have a Z6i 3-18 on the .375 as well, and Z6i 1.7 - 10 on the .458. As long as you are under the weight limit for your gun case it really doesn't matter how many guns you have. The only issue is the 11 lbs ammo limit, but past experience of traveling with two guns tells me it is enough. Heck, on the last trip to Zim the customs guy was complimenting me on how little ammo I had used as most people supposedly "used" a lot more ammo. Because I was shooting wildcats there was no reason for me to leave ammo behind and declare it "used".

In regards to 300 grain bullets, I think most people (myself included) have moved on to Barnes TTX.

 

[BeeMaa]

In regards to 300 grain bullets, I think most people (myself included) have moved on to Barnes TTX.

Interesting.
I'm not sure what data you are using to determine that people have moved on from 300 grain 375 bullets.
I know I don't speak for everybody, but I'll keep my 375H&H on a steady diet of 300 grain Swift A-Frames.

 

[Tanks]

Interesting.
I'm not sure what data you are using to determine that people have moved on from 300 grain 375 bullets.
I know I don't speak for everybody, but I'll keep my 375H&H on a steady diet of 300 grain Swift A-Frames.

In CA and also some other States as well I think, lead core bullets are illegal hence the move to Barnes TTX.

 

[One Day...]

Factually, there is enormous overlap between .375 and .416.
Sure, as everyone said already, the .375 shoots flatter, and the .416 hits harder, but there is not much that one can do, that the other one can't do, including up close, or out there...

Turning the .375 into a PG rifle with 250 gr or 235 gr slugs?
Sure, it works, but if there are going to be two calibers/rifles in my gun case, and the DG one is a .416 (or larger), then the PG one will not be a .375 but a .300.

We buy them because we like them, not because we need them...
Although I have a well established (and deserved) reputation for dry analytical thinking, I am a complete sucker for the "nostalgia safari" (Red Leg), or 'nostalgia anything having to do with Africa'. This is why I own both a .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, but in truth since I evolved to only want to hunt DG with my .470 double (ah! the romance... and the intensity of the up-close & personal hunt of DG), neither the .375 nor the .416 have seen Africa yet...

The 1 rifle battery...
I love both my .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, and they each carry their own load of romance and nostalgia, but to me they are both a 1 rifle battery. Sentimental leanings would likely guide my choice between them, and it could be a different choice at different times

This is also why I have resisted, although I have lusted, buying a .404 (Newboomer) because now instead of splitting hairs in halves, I would have to do it in thirds

The agony of selecting a battery...
Of course either .375, .404 or .416 could be the middle caliber between a .300 and a .470 or .500 in a 3 rifles battery, but because few of us indeed can afford a full bag, 3 months, Tanzania Safari that would justify bringing 3 rifles, practically has to intervene somewhere in the hauling of gun cases through international airports...

I am on the 2 calibers band-wagon, which may or may not mean two different rifles (can anyone spell R8? - or two barreled "mauser" actions with one stock in the same Pelican 1700 case Blaser uses ) and after two successful safaris with one time a .340 and the other time a .257, I have settled on the .300 as my PG default rifle. Depending on what is on the package, the 130 gr TTSX is a death ray and a lightning bolt on anything up to 600 lbs, and the 165 gr TTSX is Thor's own hammer on anything heavier. With 95%+ weight retention slugs, I do not use the 180 gr anymore. For DG, it is simple: .470 double. I want to hunt DG up close and personal.

This September will be PG and Buff. It will be .300 and .470.

If I did not own a .470, I would likely be agonizing over taking either .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or .458 Lott, but I do not really see a scenario where I would take two of them together. There was a pre-double time when I swore by the combo .340 / .458, but in my mind a combo .340 / .375 make little sense, nor do .416 / .458, nor .375 / .416, unless redundancy is the intent. Of course .375 / .416 for TWO hunters (BeeMaa) is a completely different situation altogether. In fact, each has a 1 rifle battery as discussed above...

They are a few salients points in addition to the above. If a Livingstone or Derby Eland was on the package, then the .375 with Leica 2.5-10x42 would replace the .300 also with Leica 2.5-10x42 as the PG rifle. If a dedicated lion hunt is to happen, then the .416 with Leica 1-4x24 will likely be the one.

In the end...
To each their own. As I kept telling clients on the DSC and SCI shows over these past few weeks: "This your time, this is your money, this is your safari. Truly, do as you please, there are in the end very few rifle(s) choices that genuinely do not work."

 

[Neale]

It is my plan this July to take both my 375 Wby and 416 Rigby and shoot a buffalo with each. My reasoning is that I had the 375Wby custom built many years ago and it was built specifically to take to Africa. Well, that did not happen on my first two PG trips to South Africa as other rifles I have were better suited.It therefore deserves to go this time to Zimbawbe.
In the mean time I also acquired a beautiful CZ 416 Rigby and it just says "take me to Africa and shoot a Buffalo".
For me it is why I love custom rifles and believe they need to be used hunting.

 

[One Day...]

Classic situation that I suspect happens to a lot of us. It certainly happened to me. We buy DG rifles faster than we use them and there is a backlog in the gun safe to go to Africa
In fact, these will be in sequence two 1 rifle batteries, for sentimental reason. This is just as good a reason as any other. This is your time, this is your money, this is your safari, truly, do as you please, etc.

 

[AZDAVE]

So months ago you worthless jerks didn't talk me out of purchasing a 416 so of course I'm weak-willed and I have one on the way. A Kimber Caprivi 416 Rem Mag to be precise. Let's not re-litigate the veracity of a Rem Mag vs a Rigby vs a Ruger...

But if you have both a 375 and a 416, would it change how they are set up? My 416 will be my buff rifle at this point.

Currently have a VX6HD 1-6x24 on the 375 zeroed at 100 but thinking I'll replace that with a 2.5-12.5x42 Trijicon and put the 1-6x24 on the 416. May even drop down from 300 grainers in the 375 to 260/270 grainers and zero it out a bit longer.

I'm definitely going heavy on the 416: 400 grain A-Frames is what I'm thinking.

Thoughts?

Thank you for the nice compliment as several of us try hard to be enablers and bad influences

Put a nice red dot on the 416 and use it on buff, elephant. Use the 400 gr Aframe and their break away solids or a (CEB/Woodleigh/Northfork solid)

Use the scope on the 375 for all your plains game and back up for your 416. If you are looking for a little reach in your 375 the 260gr Accubond has shot extremely well in my 375's.

Shoot allot, shoot straight and have fun.