If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum?

[bimbo]

and where would the 9.3x64 be should the germans have been victorious.?
it would now be where the 375 is without doubt.
bruce.

 

[bimbo]

9.3 x 64 same problem of 375...bulleteater or also much more!Too much speed over green right band...2200 /2400 fps perfect for alk heavy game on short and medium range in soft point as well on solid

 

[bimbo]

Ahem, then why 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm Rem Mag etc. etc. are getting popular?

 

[bimbo]

Unright fate as well as for 264 WMag

 

[bimbo]

Doctari in his book Perfect Shot II discusses his ZB47 rifle in 9.3x62 which has harvested I believe 600 plus Cape Buff !

 

[mark-hunter]

If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum caliber for dangerous game in all of Africa:
- Would you consider replacing your 375 with a 9.3 (If you did not currently own a 9.3x62)?
- For a one rifle safari, which included plains game and Cape buffalo, would you feel comfortable with only the 9.3x62?
- For someone who owns neither, but plans on hunting Africa (someday), asks you to help them choose between the 9.3x62 and 375?

I realize this has probably been kicked around in one form or another but, was hoping to get everyone’s thoughts.
Thanks...

What about elephant, hypo, and rhino?
I wouldnt necesserily jump on it.
Just to swap 375 with 9.3 for general plains game hunting plus buffalo combo, is doable i guess, but not overly attractive to me.

 

[bimbo]

It s true!Ganyana passed off,same story.In addictional 40 shots for buffalo with 293 grs tug bullet in 9.3 and a charging elephant dropped down at spitting distance with monometal solid 270 grs too!

 

[bimbo]

I have a Dumoulin Mauser action on my bench that will become a 9.3x62 some day. I am about to send to Dennis Olson to have a Obrendorf straight bolt handle welded and Shilen barrel screwed on. Have to get a barrel from Shilen on order. Also have to get me a pice of wood for a stock. Someone asked me why I picked that cal. I said it was the only thing I could find bullets and brass for here in the US.

I have a piece of English Walnut turned I could inlet for the 9.3 but was kind of thinking I wanted to use it on a 300 H&H. I have several project I need to make stocks for. This thing called a job gets in the way of my stock makeing.

9.3 seemed like a good round for Kudu, Eland etc. But would be hard to go back to Africa without my old 375 H&H.

9.3 is a good solid round that looks to work well for everything from deer, bear, to plains game and DG too if allowed.

 

[bimbo]

Guaranteed!

 

[bimbo]

I have been mentioned twice in this thread so I'll add my five cents worth. There is, in my opinion a logical explanation why the 9,3 x 62 mm, and well-constructed 286 or 300 grain bullets is such an effective, dangerous game combination.
It is simply this:- this ballistic combination is wonderfully 'shootable', which goes a long way towards ensuring initial shot placement is good. Knowing your rifle/ballistic combination is 'marginal' for buffalo, also seems to have a physiological effect - which in a way seems to improve ones shooting performance.
I have yet to meet an enthusiastic dangerous game hunter who could not shoot my 9,3 well, and this includes quite a few from the fairer sex. I have however encountered quite a few 'with hairy chests' who were 'scared' of a .375's recoil.
There are three components to 'recoil' - the force that comes back into your shoulder measured in foot pounds (Free Recoil Energy), the speed or velocity with which this force is delivered (Free Recoil Velocity measured in fps) and the 'duration' of the recoil event.
Recoil starts the moment the bullet starts to move out the neck of the cartridge case and into the freebore and it ends when the bullet exits the muzzle.
A 10 pound 9,3 x 62 mm firing a 286 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2350 fps (or a 300 grainer at 2300) creates a FRE value of 28 ft pounds at a FRV of 13.5 fps.
A similar weight .375 H&H firing a 300 grain bullet at 2550 fps of muzzle velocity creates 41 ft pounds of FRE at a velocity of 16 fps.
I do not have a figure for the duration of the recoil event but given similar barrel lengths the time it takes for a 286 grain .366 bullet to be accelerated to 2350 fps is longer than it takes a 300 grainer to reach 2550 fps.
Put simply, a similar weight .375 H&H recoils 50% more than a 9,3 x 62 mm, and this 'experience' is delivered over a shorter/sharper time period, all of which translates into a very different, more unpleasant shooting experience.
This makes the 9,3 a lot easier, more pleasant, more manageable call it whatever, to shoot. Pretty simple really, all of which contributes significantly towards 'confidence' which in turn equates to better shooting and correct first shot placement.
I have more than three decades of 9,3 experience and I long ago realized that 300 grain .366's (at 2300 fps) seemed to me to be more effective than 286 grainers going a bit faster. I attributed this to a better sectional density, .320 as opposed to .305, and a slightly improved momentum value - 99 pound fps to 96.
More importantly, the 300 grain expanding bullets I used for decades, flat nosed Hi-Performers made especially for me by the late Ken Stewart, had nice, 2 mm thick jackets and bonded cores, and they expanded reliably to a little over double caliber in size which created nice and big wound channels which resulted in turn to quick deaths when these bullets were placed into the heart/lung area.
Many buffalo are shot from the frontal angles where the inch-thick frontal chest skin of a buffalo is a formidable obstacle for any bullet. I quickly became convinced that from these angles, an expanding 300 grain .366 bullet at 2300 was more effective than a similar 300 grain .375 bullet at 2500 fps. Higher SD bullets at a lower mv overcame the 'trampoline effect' of the frontal chest skin better/easier than lower SD bullets going faster. In such instances, momentum, in my opinion, is a lot more important than energy.
Along with my Brno ZG47 9,3 x 62 mm, I also owned for a time a Browning A-Bolt Medallion .375 H&H. This rifle weighed only 8 pounds and my clients used to complain bitterly about its recoil when full house factory loads with 300 grainers were used. To get around this I used to reduce the mv with 300 grainers to 2350 fps. Not only did this reduce the recoil, but it also improved the terminal bullet performance. When 350 grain .375 bullets became available (and 380 grain Rhino's) this bullet weight elevated the .375 into another performance class altogether - but this is not the topic of this thread.
The 'nine-three's' work because they are the easiest of the DG suitable combinations to shoot, and when bullet placement is where it should be, they 'work' surprisingly well.
There is an old saying - 'shot Placement is the best caliber/cartridge combination' and the 9,3's are the easiest way to accomplish this - pretty simple really!

 

[bimbo]

Hi Kevin
I am hunting in Zim since '89 all game inclusive elephant. My father used always a 375 and me a 9.3 x74 r.The one difference ever saw has been the heaviest recoil longest full lenght and some shot trough of 375.For medium game like leopard and warthog ,9.3 work always better.For heavy game same but 9.3 have had never problem about deflect or erratic penetration showed one time by 375

 

[bimbo]

For me, it comes down to a feeling. The 9,3x62 is a great caliber, especially for driven hunts imo, and fits perfectly into the European hunting style and environment. The 375, respectively, has that “African feel” over it. A little bigger, a little meaner. Obviously not a very scientific response to the thread’s question, but who hunts for scientific reasons

 

[bimbo]

9.3 was born specialist for african german settlers in 1905...375 in 1921...
For 60 years 9.3 have dominated the hunting field with no rivals enough big to fight with it!

 

[bimbo]

Bonnevier,
I think it is neat that you mention “feelings”, because that was one of the things that inspired me to create this post. In the Norma Reloading Manual Vol. 2, they state that the 9.3x62 was developed by the German gunmaker Otto Bock in 1905 for the German Colonists living in Africa. Now, I can envision a poor German farmer trying to protect his crops with the most affordable option available ( a standard length Mauser action chambered for 9.3x62). It seems to me that Mr. Bock’s task was to create a solution that the average German/African Colonists could afford and, for me, that gives the 9.3x62 more of an “ African Feel”.

 

[bimbo]

In fact.In other case settlers could have got 9.3 x74R in double rifle made for aristocracy austroungarian empire''s too much expensive for them !

 

[bimbo]

Yes it looks like I'm getting there - will be dropping it off with the exported on Monday.

I think the .375 Flanged is a wonderful cartridge. Not much difference between 2350 and 2400. My experience from living in Karoi for 22 yrs was that loads developed there (4000 feet) seemed to be a bit 'hotter' when used in my old stamping ground, the low-lying Zambezi valley, especially when it was hot. Remember well, at Rifa Education Camp once when we were on a pre-competency training course, chronograping a .416 Rem Mag - factory ammo - it was pushing 400 grainers at 2500!!!! - this was in October, it was 40 C and the ammo had been on the dashboard of a 'Cruiser parked in the sun!

 

[bimbo]

Some times after hours to walknig under the nasty sun u cannot touch your ammo into your ammo belt!

 

[bimbo]

I always find these discussions interesting. It gives us old gun cranks something to discuss with a nice fire and whiskey in our hands. The history and basic interior ballistics have been solidly covered in this and other threads. The advice of shoot the largest caliber that you can handle and shoot accurately is probably the best advice ever given. In my time in the military and helping at ranges to teach people to shoot, I have seen all the good and bad habits that people have and or develop. (and have had to deal with in my own shooting) It is interesting in that in my opinion that women are easier to train than men as they listen and apply what you tell them without preconceived notions. Second most everyone can be taught to shoot up to the 9.3/375 class of rifles, with proper training and a "Properly fitting rifle" . Another observation is that for the lack of a better word the more modern man has become soft and if things are uncomfortable they avoid it (IE any rifle that recoils harder than that viscous 30/06) I have bought many 375 and larger from guys that only had one or two rounds down the tube because they were scard of the recoil and were to closed minded to learn how to deal with recoil.

SHOT PLACEMENT is paramount over

I have shot alot of game with the 9.3's (62 and 74R) I would happly hunt buffalo with my load in my bolt or double guns. Have 300 gr aframes for softs and swift and northfork solids in the double and swift 300 and woodleigh 320's for the 62. in my 375 the aframes and CEB solids would be used. that being said my buffalo was shot with a 450NE and my Hippo with 450/400. I will most likely always use a 40+ on my DG (Except leopard, using my 9.3x62 with 250 Accubonds at 2730fps this year). My upper limitation on recoil is a 577NE and 8 Bore muzzle loader. My current large bolt gun is a 500 Jeffery that I will be using to back a buddy up on Ele this year. So again shot as large a caliber that you can handle and shoot accuratly

My wife is shooting her first buffalo this year (rescheduled from Oct 2020 due to covid) I getting her prepared for the hunt, had her shoot 9.3x62 , 375 H&H, and had a 400 whelen that she didn't shoot as after two range sessions she simply said this is the rifle I will use and it was the 375. Have it set up with a red dot and a perfect fit on the rifle.

So based on watching her shoot and decide which rifle to hunt buffalo with I would also tell you to try both and see which one suits you best and go hunt.

 

[bimbo]

Fine list of rifle man!
A lot of people go out of control when shoot with a caliber over 30 06.In France x be allowed to hunt with 9.3,are needed a couple of years of training or a special permit if i don t go wrong

 

[bimbo]

With all currently available factory ammunition, the 9,3 x 62 is NOT legal in Zimbabwe for Category A animals (Hippo/Buffalo/Elephant). It does not make the minimum energy but does make the minimum calibre. Handloads can make the legal requirement- 3982 ft/lbs. There used to be a 293 gr TUG bullet loaded at 2515 fps which developed 4110 ft/lbs so it could be done with factory ammo.

Your handload above is at 3970 fp/lbss so a little more (2504) fps would get you legal. In theory, Zim National Parks could require you to prove your stats by firing 5 rounds over a chrono and averaging it but that is highly unlikely . Mostly, you would get away with it cos no one will ask.

As to practical differences, they are both capable calibres but one is legal in Zim and one can be legal if you handload judiciously.