If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum caliber for dangerous game in all of Africa:
- Would you consider replacing your 375 with a 9.3 (If you did not currently own a 9.3x62)?
- For a one rifle safari, which included plains game and Cape buffalo, would you feel comfortable with only the 9.3x62?
- For someone who owns neither, but plans on hunting Africa (someday), asks you to help them choose between the 9.3x62 and 375?

I realize this has probably been kicked around in one form or another but, was hoping to get everyone’s thoughts.
Thanks...

@Randy Bo
I would feel quite comfortable using my 35 Whelen loaded with 310 grain RNSP or solid for buffalo of any sort, but then again I'm a bit irregular on my thoughts.
Bob

 

[Nhoro]

IIRC the 9.3x62 is and has been legal in Zim (or one of the African nations) for some time.

as to the question: sure. I have both a 9.3x62 and a 375 H&H. I have driven 286 gr Partitions at 2500 FPS chrono’d in my 9.3. The 375 drives 300 gr bullets at 2500.

I doubt any critter would know the difference.

With all currently available factory ammunition, the 9,3 x 62 is NOT legal in Zimbabwe for Category A animals (Hippo/Buffalo/Elephant). It does not make the minimum energy but does make the minimum calibre. Handloads can make the legal requirement- 3982 ft/lbs. There used to be a 293 gr TUG bullet loaded at 2515 fps which developed 4110 ft/lbs so it could be done with factory ammo.

Your handload above is at 3970 fp/lbss so a little more (2504) fps would get you legal. In theory, Zim National Parks could require you to prove your stats by firing 5 rounds over a chrono and averaging it but that is highly unlikely . Mostly, you would get away with it cos no one will ask.

As to practical differences, they are both capable calibres but one is legal in Zim and one can be legal if you handload judiciously.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum caliber for dangerous game in all of Africa:
- Would you consider replacing your 375 with a 9.3 (If you did not currently own a 9.3x62)?
- For a one rifle safari, which included plains game and Cape buffalo, would you feel comfortable with only the 9.3x62?
- For someone who owns neither, but plans on hunting Africa (someday), asks you to help them choose between the 9.3x62 and 375?

I realize this has probably been kicked around in one form or another but, was hoping to get everyone’s thoughts.
Thanks...

@Randy Bo
I would feel quite comfortable using my 35 Whelen loaded with 310 grain RNSP or solid for buffalo of any sort, but then again I'm a bit irregular on my thoughts.
Bob

With all currently available factory ammunition, the 9,3 x 62 is NOT legal in Zimbabwe for Category A animals (Hippo/Buffalo/Elephant). It does not make the minimum energy but does make the minimum calibre. Handloads can make the legal requirement- 3982 ft/lbs. There used to be a 293 gr TUG bullet loaded at 2515 fps which developed 4110 ft/lbs so it could be done with factory ammo.

Your handload above is at 3970 fp/lbss so a little more (2504) fps would get you legal. In theory, Zim National Parks could require you to prove your stats by firing 5 rounds over a chrono and averaging it but that is highly unlikely . Mostly, you would get away with it cos no one will ask.

As to practical differences, they are both capable calibres but one is legal in Zim and one can be legal if you handload judiciously.

@Nhoro
If 3,900 fpe is legal muzzle energy for the 9.3 then the 35 Whelen and 358 Norma should be legal with both capable of over 4,000 fpe should theoretically be legal as well.
Bob

 

[Nhoro]

@Randy Bo
I would feel quite comfortable using my 35 Whelen loaded with 310 grain RNSP or solid for buffalo of any sort, but then again I'm a bit irregular on my thoughts.
Bob

@Nhoro
If 3,900 fpe is legal muzzle energy for the 9.3 then the 35 Whelen and 358 Norma should be legal with both capable of over 4,000 fpe should theoretically be legal as well.
Bob

I don't think so. Law requirement is over .362 " + energy requirement.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I chose a .375H&H over a 9.3x?? for a few reasons.
First was the obvious DG legal issue.
But right behind that was ammo availability.

Although 9.3 ammo is more common in Africa.
What if I'm in Alaska?
375 ammo is just easier to find.

So I would not trade my 375.
Plus, it kinda belongs to my wife.
No need to kick that hornets nest.

@BeeMaa
I'm sure you would prefer to face a wounded leopard and charging buff than an angry Mrs BeeMaa.
At least you can shoot the other 2 and be safe. Not so with the last one.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Double Expresso - Whisky Lagavulin 16 on payday rest of month Mr Walker Red - Ohh not adverse to progress love the 17HMR it is amazing development - and as has become strange in these strange times - I am as a male attracted to females ! Shocking I know - Even worse hunt with a 303 and if the post from Auz ever arrives with the dies a 303-25 will add that for the small stuff !

@Odinsraven
Hopefully the dies for your 303-25 arrive soon. If'n you need any load data on it do not hesitate to contact me. It has been one of my favourite calibers for a long time.i like it that much I even created my own wildcat version to improve it.
What rifle have you got it on
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I like the handle.

We're not too far apart, I'm in Richmond.

@Sgt Zim
I know it's the wrong post mate it should be on the reloader 22 post but fear not once again
Load from a disc says 45 grains of CFE223 behind a 180g bullet for a max pressure of 52,000 cup. Start 2 grains lower and work up.
I know you have plenty of CFE223 and couldn't find load data for the 180 grain.
The above is for the 308 Winchester only and the usual caution applies.
Bob

 

[Randy Bo]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen
“I would feel quite comfortable using my 35 Whelen loaded with 310 grain RNSP or solid for buffalo of any sort, but then again I'm a bit irregular on my thoughts.”

It is you ‘irregular thinkers’ that keeps things interesting...

 

[Randy Bo]

In a world full of ‘What If’s’: Had the 9.3x62 been declared the minimum caliber in all of Africa, from the beginning, is it possible that @Red Leg’s post on page one of this thread:
“I have used the .375 with 300 gr bullets so often and with such predictably excellent results on everything from Suni to Buffalo, that I would never consider trading it out for a 9.3. All I would be gaining would be a slightly lighter rifle (maybe) with zero advantages in ballistics on any game I hunt in Africa.”
might have read:
I have used the 9.3x62 with 286 gr bullets so often and with such predictably excellent results on everything from Suni to Buffalo, that I would never consider trading it out for a .375. All I would be gaining would be a slightly heavier rifle (maybe), with slightly more recoil (maybe) and with only slightly better ballistics (on paper with .375/300 gr bullets/ as per @doctari505), on any game I hunt in Africa.

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen’s ‘irregular thinking’ was the inspiration for this question.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

In a world full of ‘What If’s’: Had the 9.3x62 been declared the minimum caliber in all of Africa, from the beginning, is it possible that @Red Leg’s post on page one of this thread:
“I have used the .375 with 300 gr bullets so often and with such predictably excellent results on everything from Suni to Buffalo, that I would never consider trading it out for a 9.3. All I would be gaining would be a slightly lighter rifle (maybe) with zero advantages in ballistics on any game I hunt in Africa.”
might have read:
I have used the 9.3x62 with 286 gr bullets so often and with such predictably excellent results on everything from Suni to Buffalo, that I would never consider trading it out for a .375. All I would be gaining would be a slightly heavier rifle (maybe), with slightly more recoil (maybe) and with only slightly better ballistics (on paper with .375/300 gr bullets/ as per @doctari505), on any game I hunt in Africa.

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen’s ‘irregular thinking’ was the inspiration for this question.

@Randy Bo
Irregular thinking is good for developing crazy shit like a rimmed 25 cal that gives the 257 weatherby a run for its money, a bolt action 444 Marlin and a decent load for the 35 Whelen that gives the 250grain projectiles 2,700fps and shakes up the 338 win mag.
A little bit of crazy is a good thing at times.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

could 2500 be a hot load for the x62 using 293 and 300 gn bullets?
i know that while these bullets can do 2600 with good loads in the x64, 2500 is still a fair load in that case with bigger capacity.
these loads are also starting to generate a fair ammount of recoil in a light rifle.
from experience with 293 tug, i would not use it on bovines at those kind of speeds, and john taylor described that bullet as a bit soft for those speeds as well on bigger game.
he liked the bullet at reduced velocities.
bruce.

 

[samu]

@Randy Bo
Irregular thinking is good for developing crazy shit like a rimmed 25 cal that gives the 257 weatherby a run for its money, a bolt action 444 Marlin and a decent load for the 35 Whelen that gives the 250grain projectiles 2,700fps and shakes up the 338 win mag.
A little bit of crazy is a good thing at times.
Bob

I don't know if I've asked before but how long is the barrel on that Marlin? I've been tempted to try and one up these numbers from 9,3x62 but I'm starting to suspect 20" barrel is going to be bit of a handicap there.

 

[samu]

could 2500 be a hot load for the x62 using 293 and 300 gn bullets?
i know that while these bullets can do 2600 with good loads in the x64, 2500 is still a fair load in that case with bigger capacity.
these loads are also starting to generate a fair ammount of recoil in a light rifle.
from experience with 293 tug, i would not use it on bovines at those kind of speeds, and john taylor described that bullet as a bit soft for those speeds as well on bigger game.
he liked the bullet at reduced velocities.
bruce.

From 24" barrel 9,3x62 could probably do 2600fps with 285gr Norma Oryx and RL-17.

Then again, I chose 9,3 to have enough gun for moose, boar and bears with short barrel and copper bullets so my goals are bit different, more like 250gr TTSX or one of the 230gr options.

 

[bruce moulds]

i find a 286 at 2600 a very serious load in the x64, and regard it as a place not to go further than.
not questioning that you can get it in the x62, but it would worry me.
how is your case life?
comparing the x62 to the x64 could be likened to the 338/06 vs 338 win.
bruce.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

What about the 280 grain swift Bob?

 

[samu]

i find a 286 at 2600 a very serious load in the x64, and regard it as a place not to go further than.
not questioning that you can get it in the x62, but it would worry me.
how is your case life?
comparing the x62 to the x64 could be likened to the 338/06 vs 338 win.
bruce.

That was just the simulation. I tried one run with RS 60 behind 250gr E-tip and there's certainly potential but my first series stopped bit short. Then hunting season came and put an end to the experimenting. I'll have another go with RS 52 and 250gr TTSX at some point and will definitely post results somewhere.

Few things to understand, CIP p_max for x62 is 3900bar and 4400bar for x64, but in the case itself, there's really not much difference that would make x64 withstand higher pressures. Sure the case head will probably expand less at higher charges. Using similar burn rate powder gives about the same pressure curves with same p_max. Another disadvantage is the case capacity. There are few powders unmatched with energy density i.e. energy content per mass times bulk density. Alliants RL-17 is one, RS 60 is nearly the same, just tiny bit slower.
Last there's generous throat and magazine on R8. E-tip I could load to 3.386 COL and Oryx is shorter bullet. Using same seating depth, powder etc. x64 should get to at least 2700fps.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't know if I've asked before but how long is the barrel on that Marlin? I've been tempted to try and one up these numbers from 9,3x62 but I'm starting to suspect 20" barrel is going to be bit of a handicap there.

@samu
The barrel on my BOLT ACTION 444 marlin was 22 inches.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What about the 280 grain swift Bob?

@Wyatt Smith
At 140 dollars OZ for 50 they're a bit rich for my blood.
Bob.

 

[bruce moulds]

@Wyatt Smith
At 140 dollars OZ for 50 they're a bit rich for my blood.
Bob.

if you go after big stuff they are cheap because you need less of them.
they are also more humane.
bruce.

 

[HWL]

It does not make the minimum energy but does make the minimum calibre. Handloads can make the legal requirement- 3982 ft/lbs. There used to be a 293 gr TUG bullet loaded at 2515 fps which developed 4110 ft/lbs so it could be done with factory ammo.

Your handload above is at 3970 fp/lbss so a little more (2504) fps would get you legal. In theory, Zim National Parks could require you to prove your stats by firing 5 rounds over a chrono and averaging it but that is highly unlikely . Mostly, you would get away with it cos no one will ask.

You will leave safe pressure area doing so.

This kind of performance is the 9,3x64 was made for....


HWL