Identifying this Mauser and the cartridge it takes

[Huvius]

It’s the “unknown 9x57”

Well it definitely has a “rim” recess but a Mauser would have that type of recess only on a belted cartridge.
On a Mauser or any bolt action for that matter, the rim of a cartridge, whether rimless or rimmed, is contained within the face of the bolt itself behind the extractor claw.
The chamber cast won’t show whether its rimmed or rimless.
I don’t know if I would feel all that comfortable shooting a standard 9X57 in that chamber.
Looks like a prime area for a head separation.

 

[SkullKeeper]

Well it definitely has a “rim” recess but a Mauser would have that type of recess only on a belted cartridge.
On a Mauser or any bolt action for that matter, the rim of a cartridge, whether rimless or rimmed, is contained within the face of the bolt itself behind the extractor claw.
The chamber cast won’t show whether its rimmed or rimless.
I don’t know if I would feel all that comfortable shooting a standard 9X57 in that chamber.
Looks like a prime area for a head separation.

Yes sir, I’m going to rebarrel this rifle anyhow. I think it will be a great 318WR.

 

[Boone66]

It is stamped as 7.9
In my opinion this is: 7.92×57mm Mauser. (also known as 8mm Mauser, or 8x57)
Commercial designation 8x57 JS
Bullet diameter .324

My 9x56ms is also stamped 7.9, sometimes that's the bore size, not the groove diameter. A chamber cast and bore slug will tell you the actual size.

 

[Boone66]

Probably 9x57. Had a similar issue. Was able to chamber 8x57 brass but not 9.3x57. I slugged the barrel using soft lead fishing weight. Measured .356= 9mm.

Those 9mm barrels will be between .356 and .360, is my experience. .358 cup and core bullets can be resized to .358, with a sizing die, custom bullets can be made also. Some folks say .366 bullets can be reduced to ..360, but I haven't done that yet.

 

[SkullKeeper]

My 9x56ms is also stamped 7.9, sometimes that's the bore size, not the groove diameter. A chamber cast and bore slug will tell you the actual size.

This was the cast , do you have dimensions of a 9x56ms ?

 

[Boone66]

This makes me wonder how the smith plugged the chamber for the casting. The “rim” might just be what settled against the plug that wasn’t fully seated.

The plug goes in the bore, then pored from the breach end

 

[Boone66]

This was the cast , do you have dimensions of a 9x56ms ?

I'll measure one of.mine when I get.out to the shop. They are.very similar cartridges, but the MS is a lower pressure.

 

[Milan]

Sorry for the confusion but which chamber is the photo above with the recess circled in red?
If it’s indeed recessed, that would be for a belted cartridge.

I think that might be the c-ring in the Mauser front action ring. All Mausers hedspace against it. That’s how they were able to just screw barrels on (original “pre-fit barrels” before they were called that ). Only the rimless rim/extractor groove part would be unsupported by the chamber but surrounded by the bolt part around the face. I too was inclined to think it was regular 9x57 rimless. But hey, I’m no expert. Just an enthusiast.

 

[Yukontom]

I think that might be the c-ring in the Mauser front action ring. All Mausers hedspace against it. That’s how they were able to just screw barrels on (original “pre-fit barrels” before they were called that ). Only the rimless rim/extractor groove part would be unsupported by the chamber but surrounded by the bolt part around the face. I too was inclined to think it was regular 9x57 rimless. But hey, I’m no expert. Just an enthusiast.

I'm a bit late on this string but was playing with one of my Mausers that happens to be chambered for 9x57 and hit the search button on the cartridge out of curiosity.
On Milan's note It is the base of the barrel shank which seats against the C ring in a Mauser action which I also call the torque shoulder. The bolt face protrudes into the ring and the headspace is actually measured to the bolt face.
I am not an expert either but have fit barrels to a number of Mauser actions. There is no doubt in my mind that the rifle noted is a 9x57. As a big fan of medium bores I would leave the rifle as-is and enjoy shooting it. Norma brass is available. Buffalo Arms has resized 250gr bullets and you can get Hawk bullets for 9x57 and 9x56MS in 200 and 250gr. I know Hawk bullets have been highly maligned on here but I think that is by folks trying to use them in modern rifles at high velocity. The two cartridges mentioned here are only a bit over 2,100 fps. and at that velocity they work well. My 9x56 MS has been to Africa and did a great job on a few species of plains game.

 

[Yukontom]

This was the cast , do you have dimensions of a 9x56ms ?

View attachment 661265

Here are drawings of both cartridges from CIP which is the international version of SAAMI.

 

[Milan]

I'm a bit late on this string but was playing with one of my Mausers that happens to be chambered for 9x57 and hit the search button on the cartridge out of curiosity.
On Milan's note It is the base of the barrel shank which seats against the C ring in a Mauser action which I also call the torque shoulder. The bolt face protrudes into the ring and the headspace is actually measured to the bolt face.
I am not an expert either but have fit barrels to a number of Mauser actions. There is no doubt in my mind that the rifle noted is a 9x57. As a big fan of medium bores I would leave the rifle as-is and enjoy shooting it. Norma brass is available. Buffalo Arms has resized 250gr bullets and you can get Hawk bullets for 9x57 and 9x56MS in 200 and 250gr. I know Hawk bullets have been highly maligned on here but I think that is by folks trying to use them in modern rifles at high velocity. The two cartridges mentioned here are only a bit over 2,100 fps. and at that velocity they work well. My 9x56 MS has been to Africa and did a great job on a few species of plains game.

Yes that is correct. The cartridge still headspaces on the shoulder ( i.e. shoulder to boltface). All i meant was that Mauser action barrels are tightened/torqued against the C to assure the correct headspace. This way you can have multiple barrels fit the same action without having to rely on tightening nuts, etc. same can be done with winchester, tikka, etc. but there the barrels are shouldered and tighten against the front receiver ring. On Remington and some clones you have the recoil lug between them and then the thickness of that ring is important if you change that. Some aftermarket Rem clones have an integral recoil lug machined as part of the receiver ala Mauser or Win. The beauty of the Mauser is that the barrel chambering, threading, etc. is a bit simpler as it is just flat without a cone or relief cut for the claw extractor. So you always have to torque Win-like barrels to the same torque. On Mauser (or rem with cone breech but no claw extractor) you can just tighten the barrel and depending on torque, the headspace will most likely change only a thou or two at most from hand tight to “sob that’s really tight”. So running a prefit barrel on those is easier. When changing barrels one should check for proper headspace regardless of the method but improperly toqued CRF win-like barrel will not let you close the bolt. Which for some, may be a good thing.

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

 

[MS 9x56]

It was a surprise to me too. I’ve no idea where I’d even find the ammo to try chambering it. I’ve got to study the magazine now and see if it’s slanted although it doesn’t seem to be.

Norma still makes some 8x57R brass but you would still need to have dies made for 9x57. To neck it up.

 

[Yukontom]

I pulled mine out of the stock and these are the correct barrel markings for a 9x57. I believe the 8.7mm would be the land to land dimensions or the bore before rifeling.

 

[SkullKeeper]

I pulled mine out of the stock and these are the correct barrel markings for a 9x57. I believe the 8.7mm would be the land to land dimensions or the bore before rifeling.View attachment 672009

Thank you for all the input here.

 

[SkullKeeper]

Yes that is correct. The cartridge still headspaces on the shoulder ( i.e. shoulder to boltface). All i meant was that Mauser action barrels are tightened/torqued against the C to assure the correct headspace. This way you can have multiple barrels fit the same action without having to rely on tightening nuts, etc. same can be done with winchester, tikka, etc. but there the barrels are shouldered and tighten against the front receiver ring. On Remington and some clones you have the recoil lug between them and then the thickness of that ring is important if you change that. Some aftermarket Rem clones have an integral recoil lug machined as part of the receiver ala Mauser or Win. The beauty of the Mauser is that the barrel chambering, threading, etc. is a bit simpler as it is just flat without a cone or relief cut for the claw extractor. So you always have to torque Win-like barrels to the same torque. On Mauser (or rem with cone breech but no claw extractor) you can just tighten the barrel and depending on torque, the headspace will most likely change only a thou or two at most from hand tight to “sob that’s really tight”. So running a prefit barrel on those is easier. When changing barrels one should check for proper headspace regardless of the method but improperly toqued CRF win-like barrel will not let you close the bolt. Which for some, may be a good thing.

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

That’s good (and unknown to me!) information!

 

[Yukontom]

Thank you for all the input here.

I'm wondering if you ever got a chance to slug the bore. Your info so far seems to indicate that you likely have an original 8mm that may have been re-bored to 9mm but would be good to know the true bore diameter.

 

[SkullKeeper]

I'm wondering if you ever got a chance to slug the bore. Your info so far seems to indicate that you likely have an original 8mm that may have been re-bored to 9mm but would be good to know the true bore diameter.

Actually some of the material did get into the bore (rifling marks were on it). My smith measured that and it was right at 8.75-8.77 mm