I have been bitten...

[TroyF]

There is a sweet Heym drilling with two barrel sets at Champlin...

To rich for me but nice gun, someone liked the 9.3

 

[Tanks]

...

The second barrel would mostly be for NA hunting and to get copious, less expensive trigger time with the double to master the muscle memory with the weapon, presenting from slung, low ready, port arms, acquiring sight alignment and sight picture and trigger pull. I love dry firing practice (probably more than many) but it is only part of the equation. A set of 20 gauge barrels would be fun. I have my .375 h&h for plains game and leopard.

A few things. All the non-shooting drills you mentioned can be done with the original barrels on the weapon. I practice those on a regular basis and have a target on a tree 50 yards from the front of my garage that I use for sighting on.

Dry firing a double rifle is NOT recommended without special dummy rounds (with rubber primers). What I do is load the dummies, dry fire once and then practice switching between triggers and pressing the trigger without the firing pins being reactivated.

In regards to inexpensive method of shooting and practicing with double rifles I followed @Red Leg 's advice and bought a SxS shotgun. I take it to Sporting Clays range to practice. As a matter of fact I will shoot a hundred shells or so next Friday a few days before I leave for Zimbabwe.

As far as a set of shotgun barrels are concerned, for the cost one can buy a nice shotgun. I think for medium to large size actions it is only 12 gauge though. Check with Heym on that.

 

[Dewald]

Hello, I’m an addict and my name is Dewald. Welcome to the AfricaHunting group of Double Rifles Anonymous. Can we open this meeting with a moment of silence for the addict who still suffers, followed by the WE version of the Serenity Prayer.

Is there anyone here attending their first DRA meeting, or this meeting for the first time? If so, WELCOME! You are the most important people here!

There is one must that applies to everyone attending, that no rifles or paraphernalia be on your person at meetings. If you are carrying anything please take it outside and leave it, then you are welcome back in. This is for the protection of the meeting place and the DRA fellowship as a whole. If you’ve shot today, please listen to what is being said, and don’t share, as we feel it is the powder talking, not you, and talk to someone at the break or after the meeting. It costs nothing to belong to this fellowship; you are a member when you say you are.


Could someone please read:

1) Who is an addict

2) What is the DRA Program

3) Why are we here


Who is an addict?

Most of us do not have to think twice about this question. We know! Our whole life and thinking was centered in DRs in one form or another—the getting and using and finding ways and means to get more. We lived to use and used to live. Very simply, an addict is a man or woman whose life is controlled by DRs. We are people in the grip of a continuing and progressive illness whose ends are always the same: Africa, Alaska and divorce…


What is the Double Rifle Anonymous program?

DRA is a nonprofit fellowship or society of men and women for whom DRs had become a major problem. We are recovering addicts who meet regularly to help each other stay clean. This is a program of complete abstinence from all DRs. There is only one requirement for membership, the desire to stop using. We suggest that you keep an open mind and give yourself a break. Our program is a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives. The most important thing about them is that they work.

There are no strings attached to DRA. We are not affiliated with any other organizations. We have no initiation fees or dues, no pledges to sign, no promises to make to anyone. We are not connected with any political, religious, or law enforcement groups, and are under no surveillance at any time. Anyone may join us, regardless of age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion.

We are not interested in what or how much you shoot, or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help. The newcomer is the most important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away. We have learned from our group experience that those who keep coming to our meetings regularly stay clean.


Why are we here?

Before coming to the Fellowship of DRA, we could not manage our own lives. We could not live and enjoy life as other people do. We had to have something different and we thought we had found it in Double Rifles. We placed their use ahead of the welfare of our families, our wives, husbands, and our children. We had to have doubles at all costs. We did many people great harm, but most of all we harmed ourselves. Through our inability to accept personal responsibilities we were actually creating our own problems. We seemed to be incapable of facing life on its own terms.

Most of us realized that in our addiction we were slowly committing suicide, but addiction is such a cunning enemy of life that we had lost the power to do anything about it. Many of us ended up in Africa, or sought help through medicine, religion, and psychiatry. None of these methods was sufficient for us. Our disease always resurfaced or continued to progress until, in desperation, we sought help from each other in Double Rifles Anonymous.

After coming to DRA we realized we were sick people. We suffered from a disease from which there is no known cure. It can, however, be arrested at some point, and recovery is then possible.

 

[ET1775]

Hello, I’m an addict and my name is Dewald. Welcome to the AfricaHunting group of Double Rifles Anonymous. Can we open this meeting with a moment of silence for the addict who still suffers, followed by the WE version of the Serenity Prayer.

Is there anyone here attending their first DRA meeting, or this meeting for the first time? If so, WELCOME! You are the most important people here!

There is one must that applies to everyone attending, that no rifles or paraphernalia be on your person at meetings. If you are carrying anything please take it outside and leave it, then you are welcome back in. This is for the protection of the meeting place and the DRA fellowship as a whole. If you’ve shot today, please listen to what is being said, and don’t share, as we feel it is the powder talking, not you, and talk to someone at the break or after the meeting. It costs nothing to belong to this fellowship; you are a member when you say you are.


Could someone please read:

1) Who is an addict

2) What is the DRA Program

3) Why are we here


Who is an addict?

Most of us do not have to think twice about this question. We know! Our whole life and thinking was centered in DRs in one form or another—the getting and using and finding ways and means to get more. We lived to use and used to live. Very simply, an addict is a man or woman whose life is controlled by DRs. We are people in the grip of a continuing and progressive illness whose ends are always the same: Africa, Alaska and divorce…


What is the Double Rifle Anonymous program?

DRA is a nonprofit fellowship or society of men and women for whom DRs had become a major problem. We are recovering addicts who meet regularly to help each other stay clean. This is a program of complete abstinence from all DRs. There is only one requirement for membership, the desire to stop using. We suggest that you keep an open mind and give yourself a break. Our program is a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives. The most important thing about them is that they work.

There are no strings attached to DRA. We are not affiliated with any other organizations. We have no initiation fees or dues, no pledges to sign, no promises to make to anyone. We are not connected with any political, religious, or law enforcement groups, and are under no surveillance at any time. Anyone may join us, regardless of age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion.

We are not interested in what or how much you shoot, or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help. The newcomer is the most important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away. We have learned from our group experience that those who keep coming to our meetings regularly stay clean.


Why are we here?

Before coming to the Fellowship of DRA, we could not manage our own lives. We could not live and enjoy life as other people do. We had to have something different and we thought we had found it in Double Rifles. We placed their use ahead of the welfare of our families, our wives, husbands, and our children. We had to have doubles at all costs. We did many people great harm, but most of all we harmed ourselves. Through our inability to accept personal responsibilities we were actually creating our own problems. We seemed to be incapable of facing life on its own terms.

Most of us realized that in our addiction we were slowly committing suicide, but addiction is such a cunning enemy of life that we had lost the power to do anything about it. Many of us ended up in Africa, or sought help through medicine, religion, and psychiatry. None of these methods was sufficient for us. Our disease always resurfaced or continued to progress until, in desperation, we sought help from each other in Double Rifles Anonymous.

After coming to DRA we realized we were sick people. We suffered from a disease from which there is no known cure. It can, however, be arrested at some point, and recovery is then possible.

I may be at the meeting physically, but I am white-knuckling all the way!

...Any volunteers for the first reading from the "Brown Book?"

 

[ET1775]

A few things. All the non-shooting drills you mentioned can be done with the original barrels on the weapon. I practice those on a regular basis and have a target on a tree 50 yards from the front of my garage that I use for sighting on.

Dry firing a double rifle is NOT recommended without special dummy rounds (with rubber primers). What I do is load the dummies, dry fire once and then practice switching between triggers and pressing the trigger without the firing pins being reactivated.

In regards to inexpensive method of shooting and practicing with double rifles I followed @Red Leg 's advice and bought a SxS shotgun. I take it to Sporting Clays range to practice. As a matter of fact I will shoot a hundred shells or so next Friday a few days before I leave for Zimbabwe.

As far as a set of shotgun barrels are concerned, for the cost one can buy a nice shotgun. I think for medium to large size actions it is only 12 gauge though. Check with Heym on that.

You are correct. I may have been less than clear, I would be doing drills with the double rifle in original configuration and dry firing (always with snap caps) but if I had a set of barrels in something more affordable the drills would include more live fire than I would get with the expensive NE rounds. While also allowing me to hunt smaller critters with a more reasonable cartridge or gauge in NA.

I get the utility of just getting a SxS shotgun and using that, but weight, balance, swing, trigger pull and reset, cheek weld will all be significantly more different between two guns then between two barrels sets on one rifle. A second set is not a requirement and would not need to be purchased initially, but I like the idea of the option. Most of the second barrels I have seen for .470's for example have been in 20Ga.

 

[Tanks]

... if I had a set of barrels in something more affordable the drills would include more live fire than I would get with the expensive NE rounds. ...

Reloading would help with the cost. Seems you already have the book for it.

While also allowing me to hunt smaller critters with a more reasonable cartridge or gauge in NA.

That would depend, I guess, what one is hunting. Out West, where I live, most game is shot beyond the range of almost all rimless double rifle cartridges. I think Cal Pappas shot a Caribou at 250 yards or so with his scoped 450/400 out in Alaska. I trust my scoped 9.3x74R at 200 yards, I would have to test it for ranges beyond that. One reason I am taking a .300 RUM Blaser R8 for my PG rifle is that I might have to go beyond that at Zambia portion of my hunt next month.

Now, you want to shoot squirrels for practice, sure go for it.

One last thing I want to point out. Using a double rifle is NOT rocket science. If one has good shooting mechanics and used to big bores, then the only real transition one has to make is double triggers, that's it. Last year I went to Africa with two double rifles and had a successful hunt. That is after shooting maybe a couple of hundred rounds out of my .500 NE and I think I had only two months of practice with the 9.3x74R after it arrived which was spent sighting it in and some practice with the sticks.

By the way, while there are those that do not agree with his sensationalist methods of hunting, the person whose video is below does have some good tips that I have found very useful.

 

[Tom Leoni]

I largely agree with what @Kevin Peacocke said. I will, however, offer a slightly different perspective, just as food for thought.

Namely, unless you plan on hunting African dangerous game extensively, I wouldn't gravitate towards a big bore (.450+) or even a .450-400. Two reasons: 1) ammunition is very expensive and occasionally quite hard to find, and ditto for components; and 2) while it'll still kill, such rifle will feel quite too specialized for everything else, and unless you are 100% committed it will gradually fade to the status of safe queen. I see you are in the States--there is no game here that calls for anything larger than a .375-9.3mm class cartridge--ditto for African plains game.

So here's my point: I think as your first double you may be better served with a 9.3mm or a .375 H&H. With today's technology, the rimless version of the .375 gives no disadvantage--I have one and shot several, and they eject reliably all day long.

I know it's sexy to own a .400+ rifle--I have several myself. And that there's no such thing as overgunned or overkill. But after the initial high from purchase, they tend to stay in the safe, at least for me. The two doubles that I keep using are my P. Webley .450 BPE--a very mild and versatile cartridge, "the .30-06 of the Victorian era," according to Ross Seyfried--and my Chapuis .375 H&H. Both very pleasant to shoot, a joy to own, the second one sporting a businesslike Zeiss Conquest 1-6x24mm. Since you are looking into a modern one, I would seriously think about one in either .375 or 9.3. In a pinch, you can use the right barrel as a single shot and enjoy a wide variety of bullets and loads--especially with the .375.

Bottom line--again, as my humble opinion. Unless you are a collector who buys double just to have them, owning a double rifle is a BIG commitment with lots of objective drawbacks compared to other systems. With a more modest caliber like .375 or 9.3mm you still have (potentially) a dangerous game rifle with plenty of African allure, but you also have a perfect combination to hunt any game on Earth without paying too much price in ammo, weight and recoil. Simply put: you'll tend to use it more. Even MUCH more.

As I said, just food for thought. Have I followed my own advice? Not always.... so weigh it against your own wishes and wallet.

 

[BryceM]

I just got back from a hunt in the Caprivi and eyed and ogled the PH’s Heym .470 double.

random thoughts:

- What a perfect marriage of form & function!
- Doubles only have a few legitimate uses, but for those, they reign supreme.
- They’re not great for a 1-rifle safari.
- Please, please don’t put a scope on one.
- At some future time I would love, LOVE to use one on Buffalo.

 

[Tanks]

...

Namely, unless you plan on hunting African dangerous game extensively, I wouldn't gravitate towards a big bore (.450+) or even a .450-400. Two reasons: 1) ammunition is very expensive and occasionally quite hard to find, and ditto for components; and 2) while it'll still kill, such rifle will feel quite too specialized for everything else, and unless you are 100% committed it will gradually fade to the status of safe queen. I see you are in the States--there is no game here that calls for anything larger than a .375-9.3mm class cartridge--ditto for African plains game.

...

I agree with the above with a caveat. I think a scoped 450/400 can serve a double purpose. That being said, my comments above assumed that a person buying a double rifle would be buying it for dangerous game hunts first and foremost. The OP already does have a bolt .375H&H for PG so buying a double in the same or similar caliber might not make sense unless the goal is to just get a double.

 

[Safari Dave]

Hallowell's in Montana looks like they may have a Heym 88B PH in .450 NE for $12,950.

If I were you, I would try to snag that!

 

[ET1775]

Reloading would help with the cost. Seems you already have the book for it.



That would depend, I guess, what one is hunting. Out West, where I live, most game is shot beyond the range of almost all rimless double rifle cartridges. I think Cal Pappas shot a Caribou at 250 yards or so with his scoped 450/400 out in Alaska. I trust my scoped 9.3x74R at 200 yards, I would have to test it for ranges beyond that. One reason I am taking a .300 RUM Blaser R8 for my PG rifle is that I might have to go beyond that at Zambia portion of my hunt next month.

Now, you want to shoot squirrels for practice, sure go for it.

One last thing I want to point out. Using a double rifle is NOT rocket science. If one has good shooting mechanics and used to big bores, then the only real transition one has to make is double triggers, that's it. Last year I went to Africa with two double rifles and had a successful hunt. That is after shooting maybe a couple of hundred rounds out of my .500 NE and I think I had only two months of practice with the 9.3x74R after it arrived which was spent sighting it in and some practice with the sticks.

By the way, while there are those that do not agree with his sensationalist methods of hunting, the person whose video is below does have some good tips that I have found very useful.

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions Tanks. I don't have the book yet, that was just an image from the net. I do plan on reloading so I will likely end up with that or other recommended books for reloading such cartridges.

I too live out west, I have weapons for long range shots, precision shooting, etc. I am first and foremost a woodsman and bowhunter, for me the joy of hunting is not only in harvesting the animal, but tracking, stalking, and closing with the creature to close enough to make a good, clean kill. If I just need to fill my freezer, a .308 Win, or 6.5 CM at 300-600 yards is easy enough. That is why I hunt mostly with bow and the single shot to keep my hunting skills sharp.

The recoil should not be an issue with form and practice, I will have to get used to the double triggers and sight picture as I just haven't had a lot of time with SxS firearms.

Thank you for the video I hadn't seen that one in years, he makes some very salient points.

 

[ET1775]

Hallowell's in Montana looks like they may have a Heym 88B PH in .450 NE for $12,950.

If I were you, I would try to snag that!

Must be new. I did not see it on Friday in their inventory or new arrivals. Will check it out.

I believe that is the one I found in a web search and called him about but is not actually current. There are no Heym PH's in stock currently.

 

[Safari Dave]

Google showed it, but a look at their website didn't.

It's probably old.



Good luck with your search.

I love my .470 NE 88B Safari.



If I run across another Heym, I'll let you know.

 

[ZG47]

Thankfully, I have a wonderfully understanding and exceedingly patient wife. She also just informed me that as double rifles start being fruitful and multiplying around our home so will her livestock on our farm.

So long as she does not buy some cattle and erect all your tents, camp flies, etcetera in their field!

 

[TroyF]

How common are dr in 7mm would be cool one in 7x57r guess the gun would be pretty heavy unless it's scaled down some. For me I think one in 9.3 something or 375 flanged would be great. Plenty of power for anything I may hunt in North America yet recoil mild and be pretty flat shooting.

 

[ET1775]

Is this available? Sneaks into your price range.

J

hallowellco.com

I believe that one is available and I have looked at it several times on the website. It was proofed in 1999, does that make it a California Rigby? And if so, are there any issues mechanical or otherwise with that era of Rigby rifles?

 

[Tanks]

I believe that one is available and I have looked at it several times on the website. It was proofed in 1999, does that make it a California Rigby? And if so, are there any issues mechanical or otherwise with that era of Rigby rifles?

It must be a CA Rigby. The barrels are proofed in Germany.

There is a very nice .500 NE Heym 88B on Gunsinternational, but it is for a left hander. If I already did not have a lefty Heym .500 NE I would have jumped on it.

 

[Flipper Dude]

It is a Paso Robles rifle. Apparently there were issues with that model

 

[yhc]

Ralf Martini has a few DRs currently listed on his website. It takes a bit of time and money to import a firearm to the US, since Ralf is based out of Canada, it is doable.

 

[Rare Breed]

I largely agree with what @Kevin Peacocke said. I will, however, offer a slightly different perspective, just as food for thought.

Namely, unless you plan on hunting African dangerous game extensively, I wouldn't gravitate towards a big bore (.450+) or even a .450-400. Two reasons: 1) ammunition is very expensive and occasionally quite hard to find, and ditto for components; and 2) while it'll still kill, such rifle will feel quite too specialized for everything else, and unless you are 100% committed it will gradually fade to the status of safe queen. I see you are in the States--there is no game here that calls for anything larger than a .375-9.3mm class cartridge--ditto for African plains game.

So here's my point: I think as your first double you may be better served with a 9.3mm or a .375 H&H. With today's technology, the rimless version of the .375 gives no disadvantage--I have one and shot several, and they eject reliably all day long.

I know it's sexy to own a .400+ rifle--I have several myself. And that there's no such thing as overgunned or overkill. But after the initial high from purchase, they tend to stay in the safe, at least for me. The two doubles that I keep using are my P. Webley .450 BPE--a very mild and versatile cartridge, "the .30-06 of the Victorian era," according to Ross Seyfried--and my Chapuis .375 H&H. Both very pleasant to shoot, a joy to own, the second one sporting a businesslike Zeiss Conquest 1-6x24mm. Since you are looking into a modern one, I would seriously think about one in either .375 or 9.3. In a pinch, you can use the right barrel as a single shot and enjoy a wide variety of bullets and loads--especially with the .375.

Bottom line--again, as my humble opinion. Unless you are a collector who buys double just to have them, owning a double rifle is a BIG commitment with lots of objective drawbacks compared to other systems. With a more modest caliber like .375 or 9.3mm you still have (potentially) a dangerous game rifle with plenty of African allure, but you also have a perfect combination to hunt any game on Earth without paying too much price in ammo, weight and recoil. Simply put: you'll tend to use it more. Even MUCH more.

As I said, just food for thought. Have I followed my own advice? Not always.... so weigh it against your own wishes and wallet.

Respectively disagree. I bought the Chapuis 450-400 DR and would hunt NA moose or bears with it in a heart beat. Yes it’s great in Africa taking 4 PG the size of large deer and a Buffalo Bull. In the beginning I bought 8 boxes of Hornady, got dies and bullets and now have no problem reloading so lack of loaded ammo not a problem