I don't bring this up lightly...

[rookhawk]

It’s also not priced at the cost of a “bespoke quality Rigby”.

It’s an amateur reworked gun that is a Merkel. Making any comparison to a Rigby is not a proper analogy. $20k+ puts you in a world of high grade London extractor guns, Birmingham ejector guns, and Heyms. If you’d like to make analogies, compare and contrast to those of a similar price point.

 

[Flewis]

Not picking sides here. All seemed to be going well until the phone call between op and rb where rb said he was threatened. None of us know what was said so we just don’t know the whole story. I do know that this post puts both sides in a bad light.

 

[skydiver386]

The photos were clearly not adequate to show potential buyers the true condition of the rifle. I can understand poor photos the first go round, but after all of this, then trying to do the same thing on another site with equally poor photos?

A flash photo would have shown the true extent of the damage. Is anyone really going to convince me the man has no idea how to turn on the flash so a clear, bright photo can be taken?

Just telling someone the rifle has been hunted with and saying it has a few scratches doesn't cover this one.

 

[dogcat1]

To be fair it is a California “Rigby”. I don’t mean any offense or disrespect to any party but at that price point I would’ve went with a Heym or K-gun. Maybe a VC. Those “Rigby” rifles are not desirable in the slightest. Virtually impossible to give away, let alone sell or resell. If a “Rigby” rifle says Paso Robles on it I would run away as fast as my legs could carry me.. IMHO.

I would agree with this statement as I was involved with 2 California Rigby's. Further, I bought a London Rigby at a very low price a few years ago. It did not function and feed as smoothing as I had hoped. I sent it to Lon Paul for evaluation and his opinion. As it turned out, the rifle I bought was a compilation of Rigby rifle parts left over after WWII. The SN's were various but were traced to guns made from 1921 until 1940. Was it a Rigby? Yes, but more of a Frankenstien than a Rigby. I sold it at a loss with full discloser of what it was.

The new Rigby's, made in London after the ownership change are very nice. I have two of the Highland Stalkers - fine, semi custom guns, over priced but good quality. As to a double, I am no expert as I have owned only one double. What I see in the pictures - before and after the sale - would make me run away on this deal. The buyer does not appear to get what he thought he was getting.

My advice -

Return the rifle, get your money back and chalk up the lost $500 in shipping to a very good lesson in gun buying. Next time, go through a gold standard expert or shop - such as William Larkin Moore and Sons, or a couple of others that offer services that prevent you getting hosed.

 

[Huvius]

The new photos remind me of those old Hollywood pictures - smear of Vaseline on the lense and all!

 

[PAUL_MAUSER]

Yikes. Using 1 year old photos of something that are taken before it is used for its intended purpose is asking for it.

Beyond that, if our word is no good what the hell else do we have?

Ill also add that just saying '"well it's a used firearm, imperfections are to be expected" doesn't exactly cut it. I have bought several firearms that I was pleasantly surprised to see that they were in better condition than what the pictures and sellers' word and description had me expecting when I received them. Be honest and forthright.

 

[Rare Breed]

Thank you for your comprehensive response and answer when you owe me no explanation whatsoever.

Addressing point No.1 in regard to the photos that did not accurately depict the double rifle. I would set this aside as evidence since the rifle was returned and your brother in law was fully refunded to his satisfaction.

Let us now merge point No.2 and point No.3 together, all regarding payment of the shipping
costs of rifle and components. Since this is the crux of the issue and why it was made public on AH, let us set aside the condition of the rifle and photos as evidence, they no longer have bearing in regard to the specific disagreement of shipping cost payment.

Rare Breed clearly changed his mind regarding full payment/reimbursement of shipping and only he can speak to that. I do not know why he would agree to pay the full coming and going shipping costs and then have a change of heart? Why? Did something happen do change his mind? It is a bad look and had you been refunded the full shipping costs we wouldn’t be having this dialogue. Rare Breed seems to have washed his hands of this affair so we may never know.

As the aggrieved party, you have every right to be upset by having to spend $500 out of pocket in lieu of your brother in law having to pay. In fact I would think it would be very normal for you or anyone in your position to feel anger and some animosity towards Rare Breed. In that context it wouldn’t be hard to formulate conclusions of deceit, dishonesty and deception towards Rare Breed.

I don’t believe it possible for you to give Rare Breed the benefit of the doubt and were I in your shoes I’d most likely feel the same way. It’s easy for me to give him the benefit of the doubt as I have lost nothing.

You are factoring the totality of everything that transpired while I’m solely confining this to Rare Breed’s agreement to pay both coming and going shipping of the rifle and components on which he abruptly changed his mind. Based on that alone, I cannot conclude with certainty that he was dishonest and deceitful.

Respectfully,

Brendon J.

I have decided to weigh in here one more time. First thanks so very much for those who have experienced any type interactions with me! I have simply lost count of how many times I have either helped a member or greatly encouraged a member on AH! I have previously had 20+ great transactions on AH with zero problems.
While I still believe I should not pay the outgoing shipping costs or return cost for the ammo I have decided to zell Fran’s $550 to put this behind me with the following thoughts:
1. Besides Quest 1 who made me a low ball offer on one of my guns a while ago that I accepted only to have my beautiful wife jump all over me and say that money was going for her new kitchen table and yes I reached out immediately to tell him I could no longer take his low ball offer. He cursed me out…unlike Franz Quest 1 he is not on trial as I have been on our forum. Come on Quest 1 please speak up since you sent me your cowardly PM about you glad for my “down fall.”. You are a despicable person
2. You say shame on me Franz I say shame on you…you implied is am deceitful and you have “multiple people” who I have wronged on AH, your words. I am calling you out coward…who are these people besides Quest 1? Come on please let all of us know…you sir are a lier and have slandered my good name with that. Otherwise please anybody else I have wronged please come forward boldly without fear to tell all!!!
3. My fault which I freely admit is my without even giving it a thought was using previous pictures before my hunt…my bad and I sincerely apologize for that.
4. While yes Frantz has my messages I never intended no matter what they show to refund the $375 plus $129. I sincerely thought I cleared this up on our phone call with him…obviously I did not
5. Franz for you to imply I am a deceiver and fully intended to deceive you is slanderous to me and for that is simply unforgivable
You will shortly have your “30 pieces of silver” with the $550 I am sending to you
To everyone else you can waste your breath continuing with this thread but I am now done

 

[Rare Breed]

Bank of America has confirmed Frantz has been zelled $550

 

[franzfmdavis]

@Rare Breed I believe I have addressed all of the things you said in your comment above in my previous comments on this thread. As a result, I won’t re-iterate all of that information.

I can confirm receipt of the $550. Thank you.

 

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

Sometimes when you say you're done responding, it's best to stick to that, no matter how tempting to wade back in. This was one of those times. Yeesh.

 

[TMac]

Sometimes when you say you're done responding, it's best to stick to that, no matter how tempting to wade back in. This was one of those times. Yeesh.

Agreed. Good he belatedly honored his word about the full reimbursement on the earlier sale, but says he went back on his word on a different sale. Value of his word seems some place between nil and none.

 

[PARA45]

 

[pjaln]

I would of been much easier to have the stock refinished and send the bill to rare breed or rare breed just send him back 1k ,, as the "cat is out of the bag" now on a future sale

 

[MS 9x56]

I believe this horse died about page 4. Can someone put us all out of this misery?

 

[Rare Breed]

I would of been much easier to have the stock refinished and send the bill to rare breed or rare breed just send him back 1k ,, as the "cat is out of the bag" now on a future sale

gun is sold

 

[TMac]

I believe this horse died about page 4. Can someone put us all out of this misery?

Not picking on you, as I wish it was never an issue, but…my sense of right and wrong prevails. So no, I respectfully disagree, this whole debacle has lessons and should not be so easily buried. I do not know RB, never had any dealings, and after seeing this mess, never will.

The real horse died on page one. That horse would be RB. Sale pictures did not match the gun, so a refund of gun cost and all costs was offered. Good except for the picture issue, but that could have been a mistake. Later events call excusing the picture issue into serious question. That said, one happened, the other was retracted, until just now. That is two potential ethical issues, the likely pic problem and the documented reversal of a written reimbursement offer.

Then more pictures on a different place were posted that seem questionable, followed by another admission of giving one’s word on a gun sale. Followed by blaming his wife as he goes back on said word on gun sale. This horse is past dead, at least 24’ under, all the while still smelling badly.

I am not sure I’ve ever seen a more complete destruction of one’s reputation by their own words. Really sad. I applaud the OP for raising the issue so others will know what they could be dealing with. Kudos sir.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

gun is sold

For $21K? Wow!

Glad to see a full refund was finally forthcoming. Mission accomplished.

 

[mark-hunter]

I am not sure I’ve ever seen a more complete destruction of one’s reputation by their own words.

Accurately described!

This is one of the most bizarre stories I have ever read here.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

This should have never come to this. The full refund including shipping should have happened at the appropriate time and not dragged out this long. Hopefully lessons learned all around…Now let’s move on to Hunting Africa!

HH