I don't bring this up lightly...

[rookhawk]

I think the issue was language and speaking past one another. I can't take a position on he said, he said on terms and conditions, so I'll ignore that.

From a shooting perspective, a gun that goes bang was delivered to those specifications. It's a Paso Robles gun that goes bang.

From a collector's perspective, a Paso Robles Rigby is judged by its originality and upgraded condition over the Merkel it is based upon. A lightly used Merkel is $6800 to $8000, a lightly used Paso Robles is $14,000-$20,000. As a collector gun, the weapon has extensive, irreparable damage to the comb that cannot be sanded out and refinished without ruining the shadow line cheekpiece. Thus, a $1500 refurbishment and refinishing reduces the collector appeal by $5000.

So who is wrong to throw rotten tomatoes at? The English Language.

It is not a collector gun and it is a gun that goes bang. It appears the seller was offering X and the buyer was expecting it to be Y.

Disclosure: I am not a Merkel owner and I'm not a collector of Paso Robles guns, I know a fair amount about both from the armchair position.

Recommendation: Bury the hatchet. The pictures do not match what was received leading to miscommunication and different expectations. Best for the buyer to get trued up and for the seller to offer the gun to someone that wants a working non-collector double rifle that goes bang.

More disclosure: I've had a cocktail and I'm probably spouting a bit of nonsense, abuse my opinion accordingly.

 

[uplander01]

Wow , kind of a mess. A long read as well, and I've probably already forgotten half of what I read. My perspective, probably would have had the gun polished up and brought back to original condition before selling it, with proof of doing so, then it would have had a better chance of making the buyer happy, and factor that cost into your price. Might make sense also to not ship around a bunch of brass and bullets until the rifle has been accepted as is when it shows up to the buyer. Split shipping cost for returns seems reasonable, but I would not have gotten knotted up either way.

I hope everything gets straightened out, the classifieds here are a great marketplace, and the gentlemanly foundation this whole site is developed on must be preserved.

 

[Rare Breed]

For your post I thank you sir and my apologies your time was taken up with this. Without question in the future I will make sure all blemishes are shared even if they are not important to me knowing how easy and fast it was to fix them…that is just my experience and knowledge …I should never take for granted the buyer knows how to do that and the main thing is since it is so easy I should have done them before shipping and I take full responsibility for that mis step

 

[rookhawk]

For your post I thank you sir and my apologies your time was taken up with this. Without question in the future I will make sure all blemishes are shared even if they are not important to me knowing how easy and fast it was to fix them…that is just my experience and knowledge …I should never take for granted the buyer knows how to do that and the main thing is since it is so easy I should have done them before shipping and I take full responsibility for that mis step

Easy solution moving forward @Rare Breed . Shoot vintage English Doubles and honest wear will be expected. Nobody judges a vintage piece to a standard of perfection, but a modern gun gets docked by missing its instruction manual and tissue paper.

See? I just saved you tons of troubles and all it costs you is $100k for a nice stable of 4-5 British vintage doubles. Tell your spouse I expect her gratitude for you taking my advice.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Easy solution moving forward @Rare Breed . Shoot vintage English Doubles and honest wear will be expected. Nobody judges a vintage piece to a standard of perfection, but a modern gun gets docked by missing its instruction manual and tissue paper.

See? I just saved you tons of troubles and all it costs you is $100k for a nice stable of 4-5 British vintage doubles. Tell your spouse I expect her gratitude for you taking my advice.

I bet she don’t bake you a pie

 

[rookhawk]

I bet she don’t bake you a pie

Or she does and I'm expected to eat it. (didn't they kill Soctrates that way?)

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Or she does and I'm expected to eat it. (didn't they kill Soctrates that way?)

Or she makes you a Ms. Minny pie.......

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Or she makes you a Ms. Minny pie.......

I went looking for that clip you beat me too it

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I'm not going to get into who was wrong and who was right here, but all of this hullabaloo in the end seems to be over a couple hundred bucks in shipping for a rifle sold at around $20K.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were buying a rifle for that much money, I'd use some frequent flyer miles to fly to the sellers place and visually inspect the rifle with my cash in hand. If I like it and buy the rifle, it then gets on the plane with me and be damned the UPS/Fed Ex guys possibly damaging the rifle. If I don't like the rifle, meh, I'm out some time and FF miles or worst case a few hundred bucks for a flight. But at least I avoid all of this hassle.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I went looking for that clip you beat me too it

Ya gotta love the reaction Hilly's mother! Sissy Spacek nailed it.

 

[Rare Breed]

Easy solution moving forward @Rare Breed . Shoot vintage English Doubles and honest wear will be expected. Nobody judges a vintage piece to a standard of perfection, but a modern gun gets docked by missing its instruction manual and tissue paper.

See? I just saved you tons of troubles and all it costs you is $100k for a nice stable of 4-5 British vintage doubles. Tell your spouse I expect her gratitude for you taking my advice.

@rookhawk you are too funny my friend!!!!! You are definitely ahead of me on cocktails which I am going to quickly rectify!!!!!

 

[Rafiki]

Wow , kind of a mess. A long read as well, and I've probably already forgotten half of what I read. My perspective, probably would have had the gun polished up and brought back to original condition before selling it, with proof of doing so, then it would have had a better chance of making the buyer happy, and factor that cost into your price. Might make sense also to not ship around a bunch of brass and bullets until the rifle has been accepted as is when it shows up to the buyer. Split shipping cost for returns seems reasonable, but I would not have gotten knotted up either way.

I was thinking the same thing; if it was so easy to polish the gun up and make it presentable then it should have been done before it was even listed. It looked pretty darn beat up on arrival and I can only imagine the buyers reaction after dropping $20k on it. That said the buff & shine looks very nice.

There's some good lessons to be had in this story.

 

[Bandera]

I have had eat shipping on returning firearms. Didn’t like it but it is part of it.
I did find the pictures concerning as well as the condition of the rifle.
But it was not represented as NIB.
Some folks hunt hard with their guns.

 

[JimP]

For my nickles worth, it sounds like the purchaser had buyers remorse.

I know that if it was a firearm that I truly wanted I would of contacted Rare Breed and tried to work out a settlement instead of just canceling the sale.

As for the shipping, try getting the shipping back from a retailer after you purchase something and then decided that you don't want it and send it back for a refund, it isn't going to happen.

 

[CBeck]

More disclosure: I've had a cocktail and I'm probably spouting a bit of nonsense, abuse my opinion accordingly.

you are too funny my friend!!!!! You are definitely ahead of me on cocktails which I am going to quickly rectify!!!!!

And since the conversation seems to have turned to more important matters, and certainly more interesting…. i’m enjoying a lovely old-fashioned while reading through this shit show.

 

[Huvius]

Having bought and sold many rifles over the years, this is a good example of, on the seller’s part, making an accurate, current and non subjective description of the gun.
On the buyers end, requesting as many new photos as it takes to be confident in your purchase.
In this case, the rifle was described as “perfect”.
To me, “perfect” is not a subjective term and, frankly, should not be used to describe anything but a new in box unused gun with zero imperfections - you know, perfect…
I don’t think I’ve ever owned a perfect condition rifle.
All that said, there should be agreed upon conditions of the sale prior to exchanging money or shipping so with that and the accurate condition report nobody is surprised or disappointed.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yep. Time to hit the sauce.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Frantz please review my responses and respond…am I correct the only issue we had was the first shipping costs and your return supplies only? Did I not do everything else I said in my response guaranteeing the rifle and supplies?

Craig, I described all of the facts as clearly as possible in my post, including the proof that I tried to speak with you about this privately multiple times and that you were the one who cut off communication about this. Regarding the shipping costs, you promised to refund ALL of the costs of the gun and reloading supplies to us, and all of the costs back to you. In several of your responses to this post, you have repeatedly avoided acknowledging this fact, but it the proof is in the original post and I attach it here again for reference:

 

[Doug3006]

I think @Rare Breed was more than reasonable in his handling of the exchange. He refunded the purchase price and part of the shipping. I would expect nothing more or less from a seller on AH.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I think it is very prudent and imperative to inspect a 5 figure firearm in person before dropping that kind of cash.

Hell I drove halfway across the country to
Inspect my DR before putting down money.