I cronoed Hornady DGS .470 ammunition..

[Pondoro]

..in my Krieghoff double...I get an average of 2170fps from 23,5" barrels..that is well over 5000 foot-pounds.. The ammo regulates very well at 50 yards..

Federal give me barely 2100fps..

Have anyone of you cronoed different .470 factory..?

As a curiosity I also cronoed 1970 vintage Kynoch .450/400 3 1/4 softs in my Joseph Lang (28" barrels..) and got barely 2050fps.. Okay the ammo is 50 years plus..but its 100 fps less than what Kynoch promised back in the day..

BUT I got 30mm groups at 50 yards...the rifle is extremely accurate with this ammo..this rifle was regulated with cordite back in 1906..perhaps re-regulated later..? Kynoch changed the propellant at some point..

 

[Just a dude in BC]

I do not have experience with a 470, however I have very recent experience with Hornady DGS in a 500ne I was working up loads for.

It was a Ruger no.1 that I re stocked and re barreled with a 26" barrel match grade stainless. What I noticed was that the DGS came out NOTICEABLY hotter than they should have. The box listed 2120 as the velocity it should have, however all the shots I chronied came out between 2230 and 2250! Needless to say the recoil was "interesting".

While working up loads I tried a number of different recipes from barns and hogdon, and they all produced loads within 20~ish fps of what was advertised.

To me this says that the rifle was doing exactly what it was supposed to, but that some lots of hornady DGS seem to run hot.

 

[PCC600]

..in my Krieghoff double...I get an average of 2170fps from 23,5" barrels..that is well over 5000 foot-pounds.. The ammo regulates very well at 50 yards..

Federal give me barely 2100fps..

Have anyone of you cronoed different .470 factory..?

As a curiosity I also cronoed 1970 vintage Kynoch .450/400 3 1/4 softs in my Joseph Lang (28" barrels..) and got barely 2050fps.. Okay the ammo is 50 years plus..but its 100 fps less than what Kynoch promised back in the day..

BUT I got 30mm groups at 50 yards...the rifle is extremely accurate with this ammo..this rifle was regulated with cordite back in 1906..perhaps re-regulated later..? Kynoch changed the propellant at some point..

I think the Kynoch ammo was always slower than advertised . I have a 450/400 WR with 26 inch barrels made in 1920. I get good regulation at 2050 fps so I suspect that is how they were originally set up .

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi, Pondoro.

Actually, I too have found Federal factory loaded ammunition in different calibers to chronograph noticeably slower that their advertised velocity:
-Their Power Shok 175Gr 7x57mm Mauser soft point chronographs at 2317 FPS (as opposed to the advertised 2390 FPS)
- Their Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 500Gr .458 Winchester Magnum soft point chronographs at 2044 FPS (as opposed to the advertised 2090 FPS)
- Their Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 500Gr .470 Nitro Express solid chronographs at 2102 FPS (as opposed to the advertised 2150 FPS)
- Their Premium copper plated 12 gauge 3" Magnum 000 Buck chronographs at 1100 FPS (as opposed to the advertised 1225 FPS)

Regarding Kynoch ammunition, I have also observed that the chronographed velocity in most calibers is noticeably slower than the advertised velocity on the box. In Rhodesia, we once chronographed a batch of 1962 made .416 Rigby ICI Kynoch round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solid factory loads (the last batch made by Kynoch before the company completely ceased manufacture of all centre fire rifle ammunition in 1969). The box said 2371 FPS, but every single one of those 15 rounds chronographed at around 2150 FPS consistently. Regardless of the actual velocity, it was still dropping bull elephants just fine (few elephants will still be left standing after taking a properly placed 410Gr caliber steel jacketed FMJ solid to the vitals at 2150 FPS, you see).

Kynoch ceased using cordite in their new batches of ammunition after 1962 when manufacture of loading components at the Witton factory in Birmingham ceased. After that (and until cessation of operations in 1970), they were using flake propellant imported from Norma in Sweden.

@PCC600 is correct in his assessment that Kynoch ammunition was always meant to regulate well in double rifles at velocities lower than those advertised. The advertised velocities were listed after the ammunition was fired through proof barrels that were always 28" long (according to Birmingham proof house master Sam Perry).

 

[AimSmall]

When new, the DGX ran 2,125fps in my 470. Since the barrels have broken-in, 2,160. Accuracy and regulation are very good.

I send reloads @ ~2,150.

 

[Puddle]

I recall Kevin Robertson discussed the stated vs. actual MVs of the Kynoch ammunition for the .450/.400 NE 3" in his book "Africa's Most Dangerous". He made the point that the cartridge' reputation was built on the actual MV, whatever that turned out to be.

 

[PCC600]

I think all the double rifles regulated at speeds lower than advertised . A lot has to do with barrel lengths when the ammo was originally tested and still applies today. Graeme Wright’s excellent book on double rifles and the Woodleigh guide ( based on major hunting research ) tell a similar story. I had a new 500NE built 6 years ago . 24 inch barrels and regulates at 2050 fps , not the advertised Norma and Federal speeds . Here are some pages from the books.

 

[RichieG]

Perhaps a pattern with Hornady and DG ammo? Their DGS chronoed at around 2400fps in my CZ 404 which confirmed to me that increase in felt recoil is geometric, not arithmetic! It was hot and, in my experience unnecessary. Have taken a few buff at 2280 fps (impact vel 2050-2150) and as we all know, that velocity has always worked well enough. I suspect those Hornady loads were developed to “sell” speed. Personally I shoot better in all calibres I have if the recoil isn’t massively over spec.

 

[RichieG]

I think all the double rifles regulated at speeds lower than advertised . A lot has to do with barrel lengths when the ammo was originally tested and still applies today. Graeme Wright’s excellent book on double rifles and the Woodleigh guide ( based on major hunting research ) tell a similar story. I had a new 500NE built 6 years ago . 24 inch barrels and regulates at 2050 fps , not the advertised Norma and Federal speeds . Here are some pages from the books.

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PCC

Thanks for posting these, those of us who haven't tracked down a copy yet, are very grateful.
A word of caution on the loads. I have a Heym 88B in 470NE.
106gr of H1000 behind a 500gr DGX in a Bertram case gave MV of 2175fps and reasonably stout recoil. it was below almost all published startingloads. No unusual volume measurements. Perhaps a tight chamber? No substantive issue just a reminder to start low!!

 

[PCC600]

PCC

Thanks for posting these, those of us who haven't tracked down a copy yet, are very grateful.
A word of caution on the loads. I have a Heym 88B in 470NE.
106gr of H1000 behind a 500gr DGX in a Bertram case gave MV of 2175fps and reasonably stout recoil. it was below almost all published startingloads. No unusual volume measurements. Perhaps a tight chamber? No substantive issue just a reminder to start low!!

Absolutely agree on starting low .