Hunting in America vs Africa

[375Fox]

No comparison convenience is lost to politics asshole outfitters and greed. The africa guys treat you like a king and love there job. Not to mention at least 10x more game there than here.

and your wide ranging experience to write this kind of generalization is what?

 

[Ridge Runner]

Being from South Africa, hunting is a pretty straightforward thing, almost like going out and getting the groceries.

However when i watch YouTube hunting videos, of which the majority is in the USA, they always talk about tags and being drawn for a moose etc.

This got me wondering how does hunting in the USA work?

A very complex question with monumental amount of variables.

As others have posted, it depends on where you want to hunt, what state you want to hunt, and most of all what animal(s) you want to hunt.

Then comes the details:

Hunting private or public lands hunt.

If public land, then you must decide on which government agency land: county, state, federal (which federal land: US Forestry, or other US Federal Agency land).

What weapon you want to use: bow and arrow (archery), muzzle loader, shotgun, rifle.

Month/time frame you want to hunt.

Do It Yourself or Guided hunt

Then comes costs:

License fees and permits: resident, non resident: combination small game hunting and fishing + big game permits; all inclusive aka sportsman; lifetime sportsman; depending on the state: 7 day, 10 day, 21 day license.

Trip/travel costs

Quota hunt, Draw hunt, and application time frames and cost: these vary by state, game to be hunted, whether the hunt is conducted on state or federal land and type of hunting license.

Kentucky and (effective 2020 hunting season) Tennessee allow the taking of incidental elk during deer season without a seperate elk draw permit.

What this means is: should a hunter encounter an elk outside the designated elk zone(s) while Legally hunting deer the hunter can legally kill and claim the elk.

Wild boar (hunting in Tennessee) may be taken incidental during any legal game hunt, during the hunting season, as long as the weapon is legal for that hunt.

Examples:

While small game hunting it is legal to SHOOT wild boar using any legal: archery equipment, shotgun, muzzle loader, rifle, handgun while hunting small game

While hunting deer, bear, turkey a hunter may SHOOT wild boar using legal equipment for that given hunting season: deer archery only, only legal archery equipment may be used to SHOOT wild boar; during the designated deer muzzle loading/archery season either method may be used; during the designated deer gun season wild boar it is legal to SHOOT wild boar using either method. During the designated fall turkey season, legal shotgun and ammo may be used to SHOOT wild boar.

At no other time, except as defined in the regulations, can wild boar be SHOT on public lands.

As stupid as this sounds hunters can not hunt wild boar except on private property. However, hunters can shoot wild boar incidental while legally hunting other game.

Special Notes:

1. Depending on your birth year, some states do not require a hunters safety certificate
2. Military personnel on permanent duty assignment are afforded dual residency status.
3. Migratory bird hunting (ie. dove, ducks, geese, swan) requires the purchase of a federal waterfowl stamp, aka duck stamp, in conjunction with any required state migratory bird stamp/permit.

For more information on hunting in Tennessee check out, Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, at: www.tn.gov/twra

Including all the full pages of ads, cover to cover, Tennessee hunting and trapping guide consist of 77 pages.

 

[Zambezi]

This thread has inadvertently answered a few questions I had rattling around in my head. Namely:

Why the (perceived) American love of rifles that are far reachers out to +- 500 yards and why people practice those shot distances.

Why hunters in the US have so little success (as in they haven't managed to take a deer etc for years) and are willing to lump it in the bush and snow self camping etc merely for one type of deer or another.

It seems to me that if you have to jump through so many hoops and at such a high price then you had better be able to put your quarry down at +-500 yards and better be able to put in 24/7 for the very narrow hunting season you have.

As for pricing, I now know why American clients feel they are getting such a great bargain when hunting in Africa. If I had to pay the same price for a deer/bear/sheep as it costs to fly out to Africa and take several antelope.... not a tough decision at all!

 

[Elton]

This thread has inadvertently answered a few questions I had rattling around in my head. Namely:

Why the (perceived) American love of rifles that are far reachers out to +- 500 yards and why people practice those shot distances.

Why hunters in the US have so little success (as in they haven't managed to take a deer etc for years) and are willing to lump it in the bush and snow self camping etc merely for one type of deer or another.

It seems to me that if you have to jump through so many hoops and at such a high price then you had better be able to put your quarry down at +-500 yards and better be able to put in 24/7 for the very narrow hunting season you have.

As for pricing, I now know why American clients feel they are getting such a great bargain when hunting in Africa. If I had to pay the same price for a deer/bear/sheep as it costs to fly out to Africa and take several antelope.... not a tough decision at all!

This has indeed been very informative for me. I thank you all for your input. @Zambezi those were also questions i had that i wasn't expecting to be answered in this thread, being from RSA we almost never take an animal at over 300m as its not necessary. Depending on where in RSA you hunt, a far shot is considered 300+m, most bush hunting is trying to get within 80m of the animal. As for the camping and weathering for hunting it is also unusual for us as we just head back to the lodge after the days hunting. It all makes a lot more sense watching the American hunting channels.

 

[Zambezi]

It would seem like hunting in the states is the preserve of the lucky (to get a tag in many states) or the rich who can afford to hunt on private land where the cost is the same as an African adventure.

Sooooooo easy to get a rifle and a license in the USA but soooooo hard to hunt something with it!

But I could be mistaken...

 

[Mort Hill]

It would seem like hunting in the states is the preserve of the lucky (to get a tag in many states) or the rich who can afford to hunt on private land where the cost is the same as an African adventure.

Sooooooo easy to get a rifle and a license in the USA but soooooo hard to hunt something with it!

But I could be mistaken...

I think you are on the right track, but sort of derail on your last statement. For the larger and more iconic game(elk, bighorn, grizzly, desert mule deer, etc), you are correct in that these are animals that require a financial commitment, or some luck of the draw.

However, for whitetail deer, turkey, black bear, hogs, dove, waterfowl, etc, I do not think there is a person in the USA that with a gun, an instate license, and a little time, and skill, that can not find the opportunity to hunt public or private(with permission) land and be successful. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Zambezi]

I think you are on the right track, but sort of derail on your last statement. For the larger and more iconic game(elk, bighorn, grizzly, desert mule deer, etc), you are correct in that these are animals that require a financial commitment, or some luck of the draw.

However, for whitetail deer, turkey, black bear, hogs, dove, waterfowl, etc, I do not think there is a person in the USA that with a gun, an instate license, and a little time, and skill, that can not find the opportunity to hunt public or private(with permission) land and be successful. Just my 2 cents.

Maybe just need to understand the intricacies of the system and what can and can't be hunted and where. Thanks Mort, maybe it's not as difficult as it sounds.

 

[Dirtdart]

Mort is spot on with that 2 cents.

 

[meigsbucks]

Mort Hill is has it pegged. I live in Ohio. You buy a basic hunting license that allows for small game and non-migratory birds. Non residents pay a higher fee. Deer tags are another purchase and are over the counter. That tag allows you an any sex deer although you can only take one buck. Depending on what county / zone you hunt in, can get extra doe tags. Turkey tags are OTC as well.
As far as places to hunt, the is a fair amount of public land but during deer gun season, these can be a war zone. Private land is your best bet if you can get written permission. However, something that is eating into private land access is people leasing private land either for their own use or to operate outfitting services.
Ohio as well as some other states limit what type of firearms you can use. For years Ohioans we’re limited to shotguns with slugs or muzzleloaders. Back in the late 1980’s they also allowed handguns chambered for listed straight walled cartridges. About three years ago they expanded that to allow rifles chambered for straight walled cartridges.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

In Illinois deer tags can be bought over the counter. A either sex tag is $25 and antlerless only tag is $15. There are two firearms seasons, (shotgun with slugs, muzzle loading rifle or handgun) and one muzzle loader season. The seasons are 3 or 4 days. Archery season starts October 1 and runs well into late winter (January?)
I normally spend about $130 on my hunting, fishing, and trapping licenses, the state and federal waterfowl stamps, and my 3 deer tags.
I think that is pretty reasonable.
The hard part, in my county, is finding a place to hunt. We have a few places to go. But you need to own or rent land to hunt on, as getting permission from a landowner is hard to do.
There is a staggering number of out of state/out of county hunters who are more wealthy than the locals that buy farms for the sole purpose of hunting, or rent from local landowners, at a higher price than the locals can afford.
All these things can make it hard for a local to find a place to hunt. So in short, the cost of a hunting location is far more expensive than the actual tags/licenses here in Pike County IL

 

[daawg1963]

and your wide ranging experience to write this kind of generalization is what?

hunting over 100 days a year for 20 years 2 big 5 minus the rhino 2 booners and an top 30 sci wild lion

 

[daawg1963]

and your wide ranging experience to write this kind of generalization is what?

anyone can disagree just my experiences , thats the point of a forum i recon

 

[375Fox]

hunting over 100 days a year for 20 years 2 big 5 minus the rhino 2 booners and an top 30 sci wild lion

If that is your experience I suppose you have a right to your opinion. However, I find it inaccurate and unfair to paint hunting in North America as “a-hole outfitters, politics, and greed” while everything in Africa is perfect. In 22 guided hunts between North America, Africa, and Europe I’ve had nothing but good experiences. There is a lot of good hunting and people on every continent. There is also bad hunting and dishonest people on both sides to be avoided.

 

[leslie hetrick]

what i like about the U.S A. is i can hunt-fish-trap(life time license 102.00 hunting-62.00 fishing over 65) as a common man with out needing blue blood and can buy all the ammo-reloading supplies, along with being able to buy any rifle-shotgun-pistol-revolver and walk out of the store with it in less than 1/2 half hour after passing a phoned in background check, plus a ccp permit good for 5 years for less that 25.00 dollars. i have hunted in africa six times and never had any problem and made many life long friends there, along with bringing several africans here get to know the USA.

 

[daawg1963]

Agreed

what i like about the U.S A. is i can hunt-fish-trap(life time license 102.00 hunting-62.00 fishing over 65) as a common man with out needing blue blood and can buy all the ammo-reloading supplies, along with being able to buy any rifle-shotgun-pistol-revolver and walk out of the store with it in less than 1/2 half hour after passing a phoned in background check, plus a ccp permit good for 5 years for less that 25.00 dollars. i have hunted in africa six times and never had any problem and made many life long friends there, along with bringing several africans here get to know the USA.

Agreed

 

[Ridge Runner]

It would seem like hunting in the states is the preserve of the lucky (to get a tag in many states) or the rich who can afford to hunt on private land where the cost is the same as an African adventure.

Sooooooo easy to get a rifle and a license in the USA but soooooo hard to hunt something with it!

But I could be mistaken...

It boils down to what and where you want to hunt. What kind of accommodations you want. And whether you are wanting bragging rights or meat in the freezer.

Yes. It is easy (relatively speaking and as compared to some other countries) to purchase a firearm and ammo.

Yes. Getting a license/permit is luck or resilience, and rather expensive, to hunt certain states, and/or specific areas in those states for certain species of big game.

Whitetail and mule deer are in a way comparative to hunting impala, blessbok, or springbok in Africa, as to their abundance but not in the way you would see in herds.

Black bear, hogs, turkey, antelope are also quite common in certain areas within certain states.

Cougar (aka mountain lion), American bison, elk (and the various sub species), javelin, sheep and goat are hunted in various states west of the Mississippi river, however over the last several decades western elk have/are being reintroduced and hunted into several eastern states where once eastern elk (long extinct) roamed.

For such expensive western hunts, or hunting with a tape measure for a record book animal, many hunters must save and plan much the same as if they were planning an African safari.

Myself as an example: I live in Tennessee. A resident sportsman hunting license cost $166.00 USD + $27.00 for Federal Warefowl Stamp= $193.00

I start the hunting season at dawn September 01 for geese and at noon for dove.

My hunting season ends at sunset on the last day of small game hunting February 28.

Big Game: Region 4 my location:

Deer: 4 only 2 bucks (not including quota hunts)

Black Bear: 1

Hogs: no limit, incidental while hunting or game, no state wide season, by special permit hunting on private property.

Turkey: Fall season limit 1 either sex. Spring season limit 3 bearded only.

Elk: 1 either sex, incidental while deer hunting, outside restricted areas.

There are various types and limits of small game and waterfowl that can be hunted.

Should I choose to travel 3 hours west, hunting in area L, the deer limit is 3 deer per day, however only 2 bucks statewide limit (except quota hunts that don't count toward statewide limits).

For a non resident, all game, not including elk quota hunt and federal waterfowl stamp, $306.00USD. If drawn for the quota elk hunt add $301.00USD and add $27.00USD to hunt waterfowl.

Here in East Tennessee there is the National Forest running the from Virginia state line down to Alabama state and Georgia state lines some 400+ miles long, depending on the boundary line several miles wide. Add to that the various acreages of Tennessee Valley Authority lands, also federal land with most of it huntable.

Then there are 100's of 1000's of state land, Recreational Areas and Wildlife Management Areas available to hunt, some of these lands may require a small fee in addition to a license. Adding up to abundance of public land to hunt, totally free range game.

Different state hunting license(s) can vary in cost and depending on animal one wishes to hunt and how one wants to hunt that animal, as others have already posted, costs go up exponentially.

Texas is the prominent exotic game state for hunting African and European game on game ranches.

The various game ranches may resemble Africa, but they are not Africa.

 

[Zambezi]

This also answers another question I had... why hunters have to wear those orange bibs etc and a hunter or two gets shot every year or so... with such short seasons and so many hunters in smallish areas.

According to the International Hunter Education Association, in an average year, fewer than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters, and of these, fewer than 75 are fatalities.

I am sure there are vast spaces as well.

 

[leslie hetrick]

and that includes nit wits who manage to shoot them selfs do to inproper firearm handeling.

 

[Longwalker]

Canada has a similar system of wildlife management and hunting opportunities as the USA. Except that about 80% of Canada is public land that is open to hunting, our population is 10% of the USA, and there are lower densities of game animals in the more barren parts of our North country. Canadian law requires a licence and training for firearms owners. And hunter education training too. We do have some wonderful hunting opportunities though. For example, Here in Saskatchewan I hunt elk and whitetail deer every year by simply buying the required tags on line, and we can hunt either sex. We can hunt during the rut for both species. I can do the same with bear ( limit 2 ) , and bull moose in the north half of the province. Less numerous species like mule deer and pronghorn antelope are issued license tags under a draw system, as are elk and moose in some populated/farming areas. Expect to draw a tag every four or five years usually. But those species are available only for provincial residents. Our seasons run from two weeks to two months, depending on species. Relatively few outfitters or foreign hunters are allowed, except for Whitetail deer, Moose, & Bear in the unpopulated north region and for birds province wide. I can hunt waterfowl and upland birds during our relatively short three month season, but bag limits and bird numbers are large. (currently limits are 28 geese, & 8 ducks per day, 10 grouse per day, etc ) I only spend about $150 per year on all my licence fees. Part of the reason that Africa is not as popular a destination with Canadian hunters as it is for hunters from the USA or parts of Europe is that hunting at home is good, and not very expensive.

 

[Deleted member 46122]

What you mentioned about moose is that there are a very limited number of them here in the US, so the state agency holds a drawing for them every spring. This is for the lower states but does not include Alaska where tags can be purchased over the counter.

It is the same for mule deer, and some elk tags in the lower states. The demand far outnumbers the deer population so the states hold a draw for them in the spring. There are some states that use one of two point systems. Either bonus points or preference points. With preference points you have to wait until you have the maximum number of points to draw that tag. With bonus points you always have a chance to draw, a slim one but a chance.

Mule deer unlike their eastern cousins the whitetails are few in numbers when you compare the two.

One state where you can purchase a number of tags over the counter is Alaska, but then Alaska is the largest state and is larger than a lot of countries.

Actually you should read the regulations here in Alaska. You can’t simply “purchase “ tags over the counter.
Resident hunters have an advantage for sure but it’s not that simple. We are broken down into over 20 zones, and then subzones.
Some areas are drawing permits, some harvest permits, and some registration permits.
the penalty for shooting the wrong game, in the wrong area, without the proper permit is severe to say the least