Hunting Elephant

[enysse]

Remember Santa Rosa Island (I think that's the name) off the coast of California, it world class mule deer and elk hunts, hunters booked for an eternity, USFWD came in a few years ago slaughtered everything in the name of preservation (lol). Never trust government!!!!

 

[ActionBob]

Yup. I remember reading about that atrocity.

 

[robertq]

For clarification and to set the record straight, there is no official written ban on the import of elephants from Mozambique. This has been confirmed by USFWL in VA. Elephants continue to be a protected species by the ESA and are a CITES I and II. There have been no import permits issued by USFWL because for whatever reason, they did accept the findings that other countries have accepted, hence no import permits have ever been issued so the lawsuits continue. We deal with many countries like Mozambique and can attest to the challenges with getting proper information.
Lastly Mike 70560, what gave you the idea that we were bringing in ivory/elephants from Mozambique? We simply stated there is no ban by USFWL for such import as described. They only can issue import permits when the criteria is met.

 

[Wheels]

Mike 70560,
No elephants Parts can be imported to the US from Tanzania & Zimbabwe.
The Elephant can be imported from Mozambique it's the Hippo that can not be imported.

Mike probably got the idea from the statement you made above.

It would be interesting to know, have you helped a hunter import an elephant from Moz to the US? Like Mike said, the US doesn't allow elephants to be imported from Moz.

All the best.

 

[robertq]

Yes, the US doesn't allow elephants in because they have yet to issue an import permit but they are not banned like the elephant from TZ and Zimb that they flatly banned in April of this year. When I spoke to USFWL last week they will not put anything in writing about the elephant because there is simply nothing to say....Our Chief Compliance Office on staff is the former Supervisor from the USFWL port of NY who retired last year after 30 years service. Together with him, we are the conduit to make things happen between country DMA's when it comes to opening new country tropy imports OR working on clearing up areas of ambiguity that preclude imports. We are not attorneys who simply file lawsuits and waits for something to happen...

 

[siml]

Non USA countries must love USFW, as they get cream of the elephant hunting. USFW policy on not allowing elephant imports isn't saving a single elephant, we still hunt our CITIES quota every year. I still battle to understand a word of French around the camp fire.....

 

[siml]

 

[siml]

The last elephant we shot will feed 41 families for a few months.

 

[Mike70560]

Yes, the US doesn't allow elephants in because they have yet to issue an import permit but they are not banned like the elephant from TZ and Zimb that they flatly banned in April of this year. When I spoke to USFWL last week they will not put anything in writing about the elephant because there is simply nothing to say....Our Chief Compliance Office on staff is the former Supervisor from the USFWL port of NY who retired last year after 30 years service. Together with him, we are the conduit to make things happen between country DMA's when it comes to opening new country tropy imports OR working on clearing up areas of ambiguity that preclude imports. We are not attorneys who simply file lawsuits and waits for something to happen.,..Please visit our website to see a bit about who we are....stay tuned for an important update that will be published shortly.....thanks for your comments...

Since you wrote "The Elephant can be imported from Mozambique it's the Hippo that can not be imported." it appeared you may have known something nobody else in the hunting industry knew (Heavy sarcasm intended). You seemed confused that no elephants have been imported in to the US from Mozambique for many, many years I thought you could use some advice. Call it what you want, import an elephant in the US from Mozambique you will find out just how illegal it is really quick. I would have thought somebody who owns an import business would know better than make the statement you made.

I had not intended to comment on this thread any further (including what I wrote above) until I read the bs you posted obviously directed at John Jackson. "We are not attorneys who simply file lawsuits and waits for something to happen.,..". John along with his organization, Conservation Force, has done more to protect our hunting rights than just about anybody around and a backhanded attempt to belittle his efforts is just plain wrong. He also posts on Africa Hunting from time to time. Hopefully he will give us an update soon on the elephant import issues from Zimbabwe, Tanzania, and Mozambique.

I will watch for the update on your website and truly hope you are successful, but considering that two weeks ago you did not know there was an issue......

 

[siml]

John Jackson has truly done a world of good for hunting and conservation. I know John has for years being trying to help Mozambique with the exports to USA.

 

[Mike70560]

Simon,

I remember reading once that the USF&W is not satisfied with the Mozambique government's conservation plan. The Mozambique government has taken the stance they will not bow down to the USF&W. Not sure if that is true or not.

What is sad is that Mozambique has quota issued by CITES (just like Zim and Tanzania) and we as American's cannot import ivory because of USF&W's arrogance.

John's wife and I met with several LA congressmen and Senator David Vitter earlier this year concerning the elephant issues. She is very charming. At the time, John was in Tanzania working the problem from that end.

 

[siml]

Mike, crazy that CITIES allocates 80 elephant permits a year but USF&W won't accept it(Mozambique). I fly back to camp this week to hunt my third elephant tag for the year. If I don't hunt my 3 elephant a year, I wouldn't be able to survive.

 

[Mike70560]

Please visit our website to see a bit about who we are....stay tuned for an important update that will be published shortly.....thanks for your comments...

There is no "I" in specialty, at least after the "T".

Maybe Jerome or Brickburn would fix the spelling in the link in post number 45 so we can stay tuned.

 

[robertq]

Hi Mike70560....This forum is for helping, not hurting so let's start from that premise because the tone of your response is not warranted. We know John and Chrissy well and work with them and yes, their work is commendable. You totally misinterpreted what I said and the comments are not to be taken out of context. The reason I wrote what I did is because there is nothing in writing from USFWL. Period. The comment about attorneys was not directed at John so be mindful when you write such a thing. Thank you.

 

[ActionBob]

I would like to throw out a big Thanks! to all you guys with information... I'm trying to learn as I go and find most of this helpfull. I have observed that SSI info tends to be very specific and exactly to tbe point, to a level it can be misinterpreted if not read and percieved exactly... But very helpful to me least. And Mike's is helpful to me also.

I do think we all agree USF&W and the US government all around is extremely frustrating and nonsensical when it comes to these things... Frustrating as hell when they write unclear rules then interpret and enforce them anyway they damned well please at the time...... it is certainly cause for exasperation, but lets at least try to stick together ourselves.

 

[Velo Dog]

Remember Santa Rosa Island (I think that's the name) off the coast of California, it world class mule deer and elk hunts, hunters booked for an eternity, USFWD came in a few years ago slaughtered everything in the name of preservation (lol). Never trust government!!!!

+1.

 

[daved]

CITES ( Convention of the International Trade in Endangered Soecies ) a world body represented by many countries has issued permits for many species that USFW don't accept in all their wisdom.

So Polar Bears, Elephant, Brown Hyaena , cheetah to mention a few can be legally hunted in most of their countries of origin and can be legally exported with a valid internationally accredited CITES permit~ JUST NOT TO THE US .
USFW knows better.

 

[Mike70560]

CITES ( Convention of the International Trade in Endangered Soecies ) a world body represented by many countries has issued permits for many species that USFW don't accept in all their wisdom.

So Polar Bears, Elephant, Brown Hyaena , cheetah to mention a few can be legally hunted in most of their countries of origin and can be legally exported with a valid internationally accredited CITES permit~ JUST NOT TO THE US .
USFW knows better.

I am sure the anti-hunting bias at USF&W has nothing to do with banning the imports of the animals you mentioned. If you want to see how screwed up our US government is, one only needs to look at the NMFS handling of the Red Snapper fishery in the Gulf of Mexico. It is an absolute disaster, especially for the recreational fisherman.

I never planned to hunt Namibia or South Africa, not that there is anything wrong with these countries, I just love Zimbabwe and Mozambique. A trip for trophy elephant may be in the cards in the next year or two in one of these countries.

Out of Botswana, Mozambique, Tanzania, or Zimbabwe I do believe it will be Zimbabwe that we will be able to import from first. There has been a good effort from several fronts to rescind the ruling and I am hoping next year will be the year to allow imports from Zim again. I will be suprised to see Botswana open again for elephant, will be shocked to see USFW issue permits for Mozambique (I do remain hopeful), and have serious doubts about Tanzania.

 

[Dragan N.]

I am sure the anti-hunting bias at USF&W has nothing to do with banning the imports of the animals you mentioned. If you want to see how screwed up our US government is, one only needs to look at the NMFS handling of the Red Snapper fishery in the Gulf of Mexico. It is an absolute disaster, especially for the recreational fisherman.

I never planned to hunt Namibia or South Africa, not that there is anything wrong with these countries, I just love Zimbabwe and Mozambique. A trip for trophy elephant may be in the cards in the next year or two in one of these countries.

Out of Botswana, Mozambique, Tanzania, or Zimbabwe I do believe it will be Zimbabwe that we will be able to import from first. There has been a good effort from several fronts to rescind the ruling and I am hoping next year will be the year to allow imports from Zim again. I will be suprised to see Botswana open again for elephant, will be shocked to see USFW issue permits for Mozambique (I do remain hopeful), and have serious doubts about Tanzania.

Going slightly off-topic but since you mentioned Botswana, I was surprised to learn that they also banned bushman from hunting: http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/10112 this is completely insane could you imagine banning people, or better yet these animal rights nuts, in the west from going to the supermarket?

 

[tigris115]

I am sure the anti-hunting bias at USF&W has nothing to do with banning the imports of the animals you mentioned. If you want to see how screwed up our US government is, one only needs to look at the NMFS handling of the Red Snapper fishery in the Gulf of Mexico. It is an absolute disaster, especially for the recreational fisherman.

I never planned to hunt Namibia or South Africa, not that there is anything wrong with these countries, I just love Zimbabwe and Mozambique. A trip for trophy elephant may be in the cards in the next year or two in one of these countries.

Out of Botswana, Mozambique, Tanzania, or Zimbabwe I do believe it will be Zimbabwe that we will be able to import from first. There has been a good effort from several fronts to rescind the ruling and I am hoping next year will be the year to allow imports from Zim again. I will be suprised to see Botswana open again for elephant, will be shocked to see USFW issue permits for Mozambique (I do remain hopeful), and have serious doubts about Tanzania.

If I may, the suspension upon Zimbabwe & Tanzania will end on Jan 1, 2015. I have no idea about Mozambique. I tried to contact them but their contacts page was on the fritz.