Hunter Loyalty

[LivingTheDream]

So this is a tough discussion and I have a bit of a dilemma. I am torn between two outfitters and I am planning to book my next safari for 2018 in a couple of months. I have got it down to the last two though I have talked to many great outfitters. But I am pretty torn, I have a feeling on who I should go with but wanted to give the scenario here and get some thoughts.

I know one of the big discussions or pain points that outfitters have is that a client will not always return even if they had a great hunt. I had a fantastic hunt in 2016 and the PH I hunted with started his out safari outfit. I definitely recommend him and had a great hunt. We have stayed in touch and I always talked about coming back to hunt with him. I met his family and they were all fantastic. I tried to help him get atarted, reaching out for auctions and potential clients. However, for some reason after my hunt in Zim, our communications slowed. In the planning phase for this hunt, questions would go unanswered and I had to ask him twice for a price list. He quoted me for a Sable trophy fee of 9k, which is pretty high given the market and was is being advertised. Given his original poor communication I started to search around.

The other outfitter that I am considering, I met in person here for a dinner and discussed his operation, is quick to answer my questions and has given me a better price (almost 4k difference on the Sable). He is very very well reviewed and a few of the members here have hunted with them and have recommended them. More importantly I enjoyed talking with him and feel like it is someone I would enjoy hunting with.

My heart is telling me to book with the new outfitter, I have a bunch of people going with me on this trip and I want them to have a good time and feel like this is best bet to provide them the best value. I know that my original PH will provide a hell of a hunt, but given the poor communication and price, I feel like my business is being taken for granted.

So I guess my question is how loyal should a hunter be? Do I have to approach this strictly as a business decision? Should I give the original PH a chance to counter or at this point is it better to move on?

 

[ack]

I'm actually thinkig the same way on past outfitter myself.

 

[siml]

@LivingTheDream , call a spade a spade and give your original outfitter the facts.

 

[BC.Pat]

A very very difficult decision for sure, I'm kinda of in the same boat over a plans game hunt. Mines not about money its about seeing some new ground vs spending time with a PH I know and respect. GRRRR ... it keeps me up at night.
Good Luck Pat

 

[siml]

@BC.Pat , interesting point you add to the decision. Seeing different parts of Africa is wonderful.

 

[BigJohnx13]

Its is always good to broaden your horizons. Different people will mean different method and hunting experience. Also the hunting grounds will be different and a new world to see. I like change and dont like to hunt in the same area year after year.

 

[Pondoro]

If people loose interest and/or come up with prices not justified.....then just move on..

Africa is big and there is much to see out there..

 

[mdwest]

You have to separate friendship and business transactions IMO.. when the lines get blurred friendships get ruined..

Thats not to say you cant do business with friends.. I do all the time..

But business is business and friendship is friendship.. they are separate things and get treated as such..

If someone is offering you a better deal, and you feel confident you will get a good product/service for the price.. thats just business..

I'd consider letting my friend know "I'd love to hunt with you man.. but we're talking a $4,000 / 80% higher cost.. I just cant do it.." and see what he says in return..

I wouldnt try to negotiate or drive a hard bargain with my friend.. that could be offensive and harm the friendship as well.. but.. I dont see how letting them know the truth is a bad thing.. Its possible he can drop his price easily.. or its possible he isnt really a friend at all and is trying to take advantage of your friendship by gouging the hell out of you... or its possible he really needs $9K for his sable for some reason, and will tell you that he wished he could do better, but he cant, and that he hopes you guys can share a campfire and do some hunting together in 2019..

 

[rookhawk]

So this is a tough discussion and I have a bit of a dilemma. I am torn between two outfitters and I am planning to book my next safari for 2018 in a couple of months. I have got it down to the last two though I have talked to many great outfitters. But I am pretty torn, I have a feeling on who I should go with but wanted to give the scenario here and get some thoughts.

I know one of the big discussions or pain points that outfitters have is that a client will not always return even if they had a great hunt. I had a fantastic hunt in 2016 and the PH I hunted with started his out safari outfit. I definitely recommend him and had a great hunt. We have stayed in touch and I always talked about coming back to hunt with him. I met his family and they were all fantastic. I tried to help him get atarted, reaching out for auctions and potential clients. However, for some reason after my hunt in Zim, our communications slowed. In the planning phase for this hunt, questions would go unanswered and I had to ask him twice for a price list. He quoted me for a Sable trophy fee of 9k, which is pretty high given the market and was is being advertised. Given his original poor communication I started to search around.

The other outfitter that I am considering, I met in person here for a dinner and discussed his operation, is quick to answer my questions and has given me a better price (almost 4k difference on the Sable). He is very very well reviewed and a few of the members here have hunted with them and have recommended them. More importantly I enjoyed talking with him and feel like it is someone I would enjoy hunting with.

My heart is telling me to book with the new outfitter, I have a bunch of people going with me on this trip and I want them to have a good time and feel like this is best bet to provide them the best value. I know that my original PH will provide a hell of a hunt, but given the poor communication and price, I feel like my business is being taken for granted.

So I guess my question is how loyal should a hunter be? Do I have to approach this strictly as a business decision? Should I give the original PH a chance to counter or at this point is it better to move on?

Tell him if not for the sable price, you'd book with him. See if he lowers the price.

You could have overworked him and he now thinks it's just "chit chat" and not an active sale? Who knows.

If fast email responses were the criterion I would have fired my PH a thousand times already! I'd dance with the on that brought you. You know you're going to have a fine time.

 

[CAustin]

Direct communication is how I would go! The guy needs to be told that communication is poor and price of sable is way too high!

 

[Shootist43]

For Outfitters, dealing with a Client is a business transaction. Clients need to approach future hunts with a similar frame of mind. Most of us would prefer doing business with someone we know, but after all "business is business." Speak with him frankly about your concerns, then if for some reason your former PH cannot be competitive, you need to move on.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Thanks for all the advice. Yeah I think I just need to have a direct conversation with him. I really need to look at this as business transaction and if it isn't the best value then I need to move on.

 

[outwestidaho]

My wife and I love the adventure of hunting . We like to see new people and different ground etc. But loved our Namibia hunt and will return again. We have hunted 2 places in Namibia and one in south africa. We are headed to the Cape in the AM. So than our next hunt in 2018 we are in a group of hunters that are going back to the same place in south Africa we went before but we really want to head back to Namibia that year. Were looking into going to both places and doing maybe a 7 day hunt each place. Is there some way you can work out a trip to both places ? just a thought best of both worlds maybe.

 

[CAustin]

Thanks for all the advice. Yeah I think I just need to have a direct conversation with him. I really need to look at this as business transaction and if it isn't the best value then I need to move on.

Exactly. My first outfitter was wonderful in many regards. I am still friends with the PH Hennie to this day. I hunted with them twice but found that their pricing was not very competitive at all when planning safari three.
Outfitters know full well that they earn hunter loyalty each and every time they take you hunting. While price is not the only consideration it is a big one. The cost of the sable alone is double what some outfitters offer the trophy for in the current environment. So talk to your guy and see if he can get to the ball park. Three or four hundred dollars will not kill you but several thousand dollars is not reasonable. Good luck and keep living the dream.

 

[gillettehunter]

Interesting problem, but perhaps more common than what we realize. I had to stop and think about it. 4 trips to africa and 6 different PH's. I would hunt with some again, but not others. As you well know $9K in Zim for a sable is way too much. 2 yrs ago it was closer to the norm. If he truly is a friend then you need to have a heart to heart chat. Probably by phone because of the sporadic nature of his communications. Explain your concerns and go from there.
Sounds like the new company could provide a excellent safari. Nothing lost to explain it to your buddy. Bruce

 

[BRICKBURN]

@LivingTheDream , call a spade a spade and give your original outfitter the facts.

I agree.
Any smart business welcomes feedback and responds to it. If not, they won't be around long.
Let him know his communication has sucked and it prompted you to look for options.

Next, share the offer details and let him decide how he'd like to proceed.
If you do not get a satisfactory reply, at least you gave them an honest chance and resolved your own issues.

Good luck..

 

[BRICKBURN]

@LivingTheDream , call a spade a spade and give your original outfitter the facts.

I agree.
Any smart business welcomes feedback and responds to it. If not, they won't be around long.
Let him know his communication has sucked and it prompted you to look for options.
Next, share the offer details and let him decide how he'd like to proceed.
If you do not get a satisfactory reply, at least you gave them an honest chance and resolved your own issues.

Good luck..

 

[Nyati]

Generally, I don´t see the point in hunting in the same place with the same outfitter. I prefer to have new experiences.

Yet you may find a really good outfitter and hunt with him again in a different area, or a different country.

 

[billc]

It is a tough choice for sure but if there true friends like you think they will be friends if you hunt with someone else also.

I ran into this problem this year with going to Namibia before going to Pieter and paw print again for my 3 time. Pieter understood I have always wanted to go there and knows there is some animals there that are just cheaper and bigger on avg. I don't mind going back to the same place as some ranches we hunt I just love hunting them and we have enough others I am always hunting new places. I am sure your guy would have more places to go to also to keep it fresh for you.

Now if someone just take advantage of you on pricing I think that tells you what he may think really. I am not in to over charging my friends and being 4000 more is just to much. It is a tough choice but do what your gut is telling you and I think you will be just fine.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello LivingTheDream,

Recently I experienced a similar scenario.
Had hunted 3 out of 4 trips with an A+ fellow in Limpopo District of South Africa (Hannes Swanepoel) that, I like very much (and hope to hunt with again one day.)
He leases a half million acres of hunting grounds total, all are just a few individually large parcels themselves.
Part of his leases border the Kruger Park, with only the shallow Olifants River between as a natural boundary marker.
However there is a game fence along one side of the property, that faces a public gravel road.
All manner of indigenous game wanders back and forth at will.
If left up to me alone, I would have just booked with Hannes again this time.

However, an old high school friend I've always hunted and fished with in 4 states here in the USA, finally decided he could afford Africa after all.
He did not want to hunt inside a tall fence.
When my favorite PH came to my city for his yearly visit / meet & greet clients new and old, I had to approach him with my hat in my hands and tell him the truth straight away that, I was booked with someone else, in a different country, and why.
It was an unpleasant task but I clenched my teeth and did it.
Good old Hannes did take this news well and said he looks forward to my report when we return.
He also said he looks forward to the day when I can return to his camp, whenever that may be (as do I).
Likewise, Hannes said he himself had hunted The Khomas Hochland area of Namibia, where I will be going this time.
And he volunteered information to me in regards to what I should expect for hunting conditions and such.
He is a true gentleman and friend.

For now, I have booked this soon to launch safari with our own AH member / sponsor here "Khomas Highland Hunting Safaris", Namibia (manager-Philip Hennings).
Most of their truly massive hunting area is not game fenced and their prices are very competitive.
Myself and my old hunting pal, plus one of my sons and a fellow I met through this forum will no doubt have a grand safari.
I do hope that Philip, his other PHs and Staff, with ourselves will all become great friends for life as well.

So, I'd suggest you just select what is best for you and yours but be respectful toward your favorite past PH and all will go well.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.