How Old Are These Kynoch Cartridges?

[Troubleshooter]

If you have an old fine British double...do not risk the rifle with possibly erratic ammo, these are also collectable BTW...my 2 cents..

Pondoro: Thank you. I understand that they are collectible (albeit to a very limited number of collectors), but I actually ended up with several boxes of these, and thus wasn't too concerned with disassembling one for study. I intend to keep perhaps two boxes for my own collection. The remainder may become trading material at some point, minus the one that I disassembled.

 

[Troubleshooter]

what is the barrel groove diameter?
bruce.

I'm far from an expert, but I recall reading that the bores on early rifles could be as small as .408" or as large as .412" in size. However, the standard seemed to be .411" until Ruger started chambering their No. 1 rifle in .450/400 3" at which time Ruger and Hornady seem to have standardized their products at .410". I know that Woodleighs are available in both .410 and .411 sizes.

 

[Troubleshooter]

A few other things that I noticed about these old cartridges may be of interest. First, note the "crimp" on the base of the cartridge neck; there are three of these placed equidistantly around the cartridge neck.

This corresponded to the cannelure which was located near the base of the bullet. In the attached photo, you can see the cannalure near the base of the 1953-vintage bullet (left side of photo). Compare that to 2019-vintage Woodleigh (center) and Hornady DGX (right) bullets, both of which have the cannalure close to the mid-section of the bullet as we are more used to seeing in recent times.

Another interesting thing noted was the cartridge overall length (COL). The Hornady reloading manual lists a maximum COL of 3.735" Graeme Wright's excellent book lists 3.75" as does my copy of the late Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World.

In measuring actual factory ammunition however, Hornady's DGX load was 3.682" while the old Kynoch came in at 3.745"
Not sure that means much to any of you, but I certainly found it interesting!

 

[JG458]

I know this post is a year old but I have the same question. I found these kynoch cartridges while helping clean out my father in law’s reloading room and have the same question about their age/manufacturer date. I believe they came with the 600 NE double rifle he bought in Kenya in 1962, while on safari. He told me the rifle came with about 50 rounds of ammo.

Unfortunately, he sold the rifle a long time ago because he did not like the recoil. Like I mentioned, but found 8-10 pieces of brass and 15 loaded cartridges.

Based on the info I read above, sounds like they shouldn’t be fired. I plan to keep most of them but my second question about them is what would they be worth? Or would someone want to buy the brass to reload them?
Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 53080]

I wonder if anyone could tell me what the manufacture date would be for the code of: 2 Q and either R or S? There is a partial R and S on my box although the S is more complete

 

[Sarg]

Well @JG458 I just wish I was in the same country as you so I could buy a packet & rounds off you !

I sort of collect big Nitro rounds & Kynoch packets, if you have a empty pack to sell I would be very keen on that to ?

I think it would be fine to shoot, I have shot a lot of old ammo, the worst that has happened was the necks cracked on firing, no problem until I see them split, in fact the only rounds that regulate in my .400/360NE are old Kynoch 314gr Solids darn it !

 

[JG458]

Sarg, I don’t have an empty packs to sell at this time. I’ll keep you in mind if I do.

 

[Longwalker]

I had this 9mm Mauser rifle and a bunch of original Kynoch ammunition for it. I fired some of the original ammo to develop a matching handload. I experienced no problems of any sort with the ammunition, but it was very old, and like the Kynoch .450-400 cartridges that are the original topic of this thread they were also loaded with Berdan primers and Cordite. The primers did not appear to be corrosive. I would have liked to know how to read the date codes on that ammo before I sold it with the rifle. Oh well, it will remain one of life's little mysteries.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I had this 9mm Mauser rifle and a bunch of original Kynoch ammunition for it. I fired some of the original ammo to develop a matching handload. I experienced no problems of any sort with the ammunition, but it was very old, and like the Kynoch .450-400 cartridges that are the original topic of this thread they were also loaded with Berdan primers and Cordite. The primers did not appear to be corrosive. I would have liked to know how to read the date codes on that ammo before I sold it with the rifle. Oh well, it will remain one of life's little mysteries.

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@Longwalker
Apparently 3031 is close to cordite in burn rate without all the nasties.
Bob.

 

[Longwalker]

I have read that also about 3031, but I used Varget. I was easily able to match the Kynoch loads for velocity. Pressure looked mild. Both loads were at original factory specifications for velocity, and shot to point of aim with the fixed sights on my rifle.