How far is too far?

[Brent in Az]

.300 WM, is a great caliber. Here in the big canyon country of Arizona, I have taken many deer in the 400-450 yard range. It's just a matter of having a good rest, and knowing the ballistics, and bullet drop.

 

[JimP]

Don't know the exact velocities he uses Jim, but it's still enough time for the animal to move enough to be wounded.

I used 3300 fps which is a mild load for the 7mm Weatherby and a 140 grain bullet.

As far as movement, that can happen at any range. Granted the closer you are the less the problem as far as where you hit a animal. But if you are trying to take a 700 yard shot at a moving animal you are not much of a hunter. Most animals that are shot at that range are relaxed and feeding or just standing there looking at something and the chance of them moving is very slight. Also they never hear the report of the rifle, that is until they are hit. With the speed of sound around 767mph it will take around 2 seconds before the animal hears the report of the rifle.

 

[Timbo]

I used 3300 fps which is a mild load for the 7mm Weatherby and a 140 grain bullet.

As far as movement, that can happen at any range. Granted the closer you are the less the problem as far as where you hit a animal. But if you are trying to take a 700 yard shot at a moving animal you are not much of a hunter. Most animals that are shot at that range are relaxed and feeding or just standing there looking at something and the chance of them moving is very slight. Also they never hear the report of the rifle, that is until they are hit. With the speed of sound around 767mph it will take around 2 seconds before the animal hears the report of the rifle.

My point inferred was that animals can and do move at that critical, inopportune, moment of firing which ends up with them being wounded. What an animal will do - even when standing still - in the next moment, (or during the bullet's time of flight) is both unpredictable to pre-empt, and has nothing to do with the hunter or his morals. Just that it does happen in the field - and which is another reason why I like to stalk in closer to reduce that risk. I appreciate your point, but even with all the data and calculations you provide, they still don't provide an absolute, or garuantee, against any animal moving at the point of firing.

 

[CBH Australia]

My first shot on game in Africa was 230 with some tips from the PH an Impala went down.
I think 300 is long enough.
350 is getting acceptance in the thread and yes it depends on calibre, weather, accuracy, terrain , shooter, species.
I’m just getting used to my new .300wm Tikka . Most of my shooting is under 200 but I do want to make use of it where I can but I still want game or pest animals to go down dead. Most of my “Hunting” is shooting feral pigs on foot.

 

[thriller]

How far is too far is only properly answered as further than you are comfortable shooting with equipment that is capable of the task to me.

 

[bruce moulds]

yesterday i shot fclass with a 284 win and 180 bergers.
i knew the range was 500 meters.
i had wind flags every 100 meters between me and the target.
the target did not move.
testing my loads prior to the match at 100 mt was producing groups of 0.3" and some a little less.
the rifle weighs nearly 10 kg. and is shot off a benchrest pedestal using a rear bag also.
15 - 20 mph fishtail from behind was showing 1 1/2 moa vert, and 2 1/2 moa horiz with me reading the wind as best i could.
2 1/2 moa at 500 mt is approx 13 -14" wide group.
1 1/2 moa is 8 1/4" deep.
so let's go out in the field with even a sendero type rifle, a bipod at best, no flags,, and an odd range like 532 meters.
and the target might move as the pin falls, and some other wind might come from an unseen side gulley.
and you don't have sighters like on a range.
and you have just climbed a hill and are puffing.
the group is too wide to shoot with the target vld bullets, and would be wider with hunting bullets..
the group height is just useable for some game but not all.
then we watch tv and see all the successful long range hunters that never fail at distances further than 500 mt.
only the other day i heard of someone that saw a deer at 4 or 500, AND BACKED OFF TO 800.
the marketing machine has a lot to answer for in animal suffering ethics, and the idiots that do it have a lot to answer for for not doing the basic learning required to know that the odds are just not there.
if i had to get shot, i would be getting as close to the shooter as i could for my own sake.
bruce.

 

[One Day...]

I am daydreaming...

A PH is hunting with a friend/client, and a nice Kudu comes into sight at well over 400 yards...

The friend/client starts looking for a rest for his rifle to take a shot...

His .300 (insert favorite brand here) mag is a proven 1 MOA rifle, he is shooting the best (insert favorite brand here) bullet, his laser range finder and his wind & atmospheric pressure meter both have a fresh battery, and he has the ballistics app on his phone...

Because the client is a good friend, tongue in cheek the PH asks him if he is willing to prepay the $1,500 trophy fee prior to taking the shot. If he kills the Kudu with one shot, he will of course own it. If he misses it, he will pay the $1,500 trophy fee and end the hunt. If he gut shoots it or otherwise shoots it poorly, he will of course pay the $1,500 trophy fee but he will also forfeit the trophy...

...

They stalk the Kudu to less than 200 yards. They have a great intense hunt and the friend/client kills the Kudu cleanly with one shot...

How long is too long? Is it when - all due considerations given to animal size, distance, rifle, load, conditions, etc. - you do not feel certain enough of your shot to be willing to commit the trophy fee on a one-shot kill?

 

[flatwater bill]

It seems quite common for some to post, "we just couldn't get any closer"...(quite possible). Also, some post, "we had to take the shot".....unless you have wounded the animal previously, or it has rabies or anthrax, or is in fact an enemy combatant.........unless these apply, there is no reason you have to take the shot.
Too far, can't get closer?; walk away. ......I believe it takes practice to routinely shoot well at even 200 yard. I get very few new hunters that can ring the plates at 500 plus yards.......consistently..............FWB

 

[Hogpatrol]

On one of my trips, two guys from Europe arrived towards the end of my hunt. One had a Blaser R8 in 300 WM topped with a Swarovski scope, and for him, 150 yards on a kudu was too far. As many have advised, he got closer, 100 yards, still too far. Again, following that sage advice, he got closer, 75 yards. That was still too far. He wasn't able to get any closer. Having said that, getting closer isn't a one size fits all strategy or method for killing various game animals.

 

[JimP]

Ones skill level needs to be figured in on any shot. I practice out to 600 yards and in over 55 years of hunting I have only taken one shot further than that at a animal. He was dead on the first shot but I shot him the second time because he was still standing.

As for a animal moving, it doesn't matter how close you get there is always a chance of them moving. They hear a twig snap, a noisy safety on a rifle being clicked off, their 6th sense that something is wrong, or even that blade of grass 10 feet past their nose smells better than the blade right under their mouth.

How many of you archery hunt? Have you ever seen a animal jump the string either by crouching down or going straight up into the air? I have, and at times it is a miss at other times it is a bad shot with a long blood trail to follow.

While I have never seen them do it but any of the hunting shows that I have watched where they are taking very long shots the shooter is not huffing and puffing, they haven't just hiked 20 miles with a 10,000' elevation gain, or shot at the animal off hand. They have solid rest, they checked the wind from the location that they are shooting from (which doesn't tell them what it is doing further out), they also have a spotter to watch the bullet as it travels (yes you can watch a bullet travel through the air). They have practiced at that range and they know their equipment better than most of us know our homes. And if they were not confident of making the shot I doubt that they would pull the trigger.

So it comes down to the fact that you shoot to the distance that you are comfortable shooting. If it is 10 yards then don't try to make a 20 yard shot. Some may call taking a 400 yard shot sniping, but what is a 100 yard shot or even a 50 yard shot if the animals doesn't know that you are there and are about to end its life? In my book it is the same thing, it is called hunting.

 

[IvW]

All depends what you are hunting and what you are using...

As soon as you are not comfortable with taking the shot then it is too far....be it 50 yards or be it 300 yards...

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I am daydreaming...

A PH is hunting with a friend/client, and a nice Kudu comes into sight at well over 400 yards...

The friend/client starts looking for a rest for his rifle to take a shot...

His .300 (insert favorite brand here) mag is a proven 1 MOA rifle, he is shooting the best (insert favorite brand here) bullet, his laser range finder and his wind & atmospheric pressure meter both have a fresh battery, and he has the ballistics app on his phone...

Because the client is a good friend, tongue in cheek the PH asks him if he is willing to prepay the $1,500 trophy fee prior to taking the shot. If he kills the Kudu with one shot, he will of course own it. If he misses it, he will pay the $1,500 trophy fee and end the hunt. If he gut shoots it or otherwise shoots it poorly, he will of course pay the $1,500 trophy fee but he will also forfeit the trophy...

...

They stalk the Kudu to less than 200 yards. They have a great intense hunt and the friend/client kills the Kudu cleanly with one shot...

How long is too long? Is it when - all due considerations given to animal size, distance, rifle, load, conditions, etc. - you do not feel certain enough of your shot to be willing to commit the trophy fee on a one-shot kill?

Good argument. But to some, money is no object. How about the PH just says "no, get closer."

 

[One Day...]

This was a parable, Kevin, a simple tale to illustrate a philosophical point

I wholeheartedly agree that money is not the gauge here, but I would hope that most get the point: don't shot if you are not reasonably certain of the outcome.

And yes, whatever distance that is, varies from people to people, hardware to hardware, circumstances to circumstances, even day to day, etc. As I think many of us agree, there is no set distance engraved in stone, every shot is unique... Some shots may be perfectly legitimate at 400 yards and some shots may be a hopeless gamble at 50 yards, and vice versa, etc. etc.

The test is simple: will you hit squarely what you shoot at (and nothing else) ? If you are not reasonably certain - i.e. the example of being willing to 'put your money where your mouth is', which is itself another similar allegory - then do not shoot...

The reason could be "too far", but this also applies to "too windy", "too tired", "too unstable", "too dense", "too risky", "too unsafe", too etc. etc.

I will hasten to add that I have several times over the last 40+ years taken "Hail Mary shots" in my excitement, or ego, or greed, and I have always regretted them. To this day, I occasionally struggle to lower the gun and live by the principles that I know to be right, and I still occasionally make the wrong decision. This, by the way, includes one shot clean kills that were the result of luck rather than skill...

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

This was a parable, Kevin, a simple tale to illustrate a philosophical point

I wholeheartedly agree that money is not the gauge here, but I would hope that most get the point: don't shot if you are not reasonably certain of the outcome.

And yes, whatever distance that is, varies from people to people, hardware to hardware, circumstances to circumstances, even day to day, etc. As I think many of us agree, there is no set distance engraved in stone, every shot is unique... Some shots may be perfectly legitimate at 400 yards and some shots may be a hopeless gamble at 50 yards, and vice versa, etc. etc.

The test is simple: will you hit squarely what you shoot at (and nothing else) ? If you are not reasonably certain - i.e. the example of being willing to 'put your money where your mouth is', which is itself another similar allegory - then do not shoot...

The reason could be "too far", but this also applies to "too windy", "too tired", "too unstable", "too dense", "too risky", "too unsafe", too etc. etc.

I will hasten to add that I have several times over the last 40+ years taken "Hail Mary shots" in my excitement, or ego, or greed, and I have always regretted them. To this day, I occasionally struggle to lower the gun and live by the principles that I know to be right, and I still occasionally make the wrong decision. This, by the way, includes one shot clean kills that were the result of luck rather than skill...

Great answer. You write well, One Day.

 

[Pat McP]

Some real interesting responses, and a lot of people who aren't a fan. I'll arguably say being able to stalk nice and close to an animal can be as complicated as taking a long distance shot on an animal. I had a situation where we spotted a beautiful Bull elk standing on the side of a hill across a valley from us. When we spotted it we were at about 1,000 yds away. We stalked it for about 600 yds till we came up to a shear cliff on our side and we were at about the same elevation as the elk, across the valley from us. The elk was at about 400 yds at this point. I took one shot the elk folded up rolled down the hill and then decided to jump up and run. At that time I took a second shot as it was running aiming at the front of the brisket and he folded up right there.

In short shoot where you're comfortable and practice shooting in uncomfortable positions like off tripods, shooting sticks or trees and when you get comfortable at a distance move back and get comfortable at a further distance. I also learned that day, the further you shoot, the further you have to carry it out.

 

[JLF]

One of our hunting group has bought a 300 WM to take long shots. He is an excellent shot, but is it 'right' to take a long shot at an animal when you could have got closer? Is there a sensible upper limit that hunters should adhere to? Do, or even should powerful optics excuse fieldcraft?

In my particular case ... I don't fire hunting shots at more than 80 yards, but I always try to shorten that distance ... I'd rather lose my prey than take a long shot.

 

[Newboomer]

Hunting or sniping? Granted, today most hunting rifles are capable of extended range, but, and a big but, is the hunter capable? I have equipment that will punch a 10 inch steel at 1000 yards consistantly. Would I try that in the field? No way, under any conditions. A field shot for me is under 300 yards, more like 200.

I'm a hunter and like to get as close as possible. I've passed up relatively close shots because I didn't feel comfortable or conditions weren't right. The fun is in the stalk, not blasting away at some ungodly range. Too many variables for a clean kill. There is always another day and another chance. Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[JLF]

Hunting or sniping? Granted, today most hunting rifles are capable of extended range, but, and a big but, is the hunter capable? I have equipment that will punch a 10 inch steel at 1000 yards consistantly. Would I try that in the field? No way, under any conditions. A field shot for me is under 300 yards, more like 200.

I'm a hunter and like to get as close as possible. I've passed up relatively close shots because I didn't feel comfortable or conditions weren't right. The fun is in the stalk, not blasting away at some ungodly range. Too many variables for a clean kill. There is always another day and another chance. Discretion is the better part of valor.

There is a saying that says:
"If you hit half of what you aim you are good, but if you shoot only what you can shoot down you are the best"

 

[Hogpatrol]

The "stalker" days are over. It's all about long range. Just look at what the young people are buying and shooting, at the range and while hunting. It's sort of like this:

 

[Randy F]

I don't like to shoot that far...it's too hard on my old gun.