How dangerous are the ‘Big Five’?

[375Fox]

Crocs and Hippos are just about tied for most human deaths in Africa. Crocs slightly more.
But that said...Crocs barely crack the Top 5 for human deaths by an animal in Africa...they come in at #5

Most people here won't guess the #1 Killer Animal in Africa without Googling it usually...but when they think about it, it makes complete sense.

Animal Deaths in Africa

#10 - Rhino's kill a few people each year. Main reason it isn't more is because there are so few left.

#9 - Lions kill around 70 people a year. Interesting thing about this is most all of the "Killer Lions" are sick/old males who cannot effectively hunt prey animals anymore and turn to humans because they are easier to catch than an Impala or Kudu and who don't have claws/horns to fight back. The old/sick Lions start to prey on humans out of desperation.

#8 - Cape Buffalo kill about 200 people a year

#7 - Elephant kill about 500 people a year

#6 - Hippo kill about 3,000 people a year

#5 - Nile Crocs kill also kill around 3,000 people a year

#4 - Tsetse Flies kill about 10,000 humans a year via transmission of Sleeping Sickness

#3 - Black Mamba - Exact numbers for Black Mamba deaths are unknown, but snakes kill approximately 30,000 people a year in Africa and it is estimated that the Black Mamba is less than Animal #2. Black Mamba are the most aggressive snake that often don't back away but will even pursue humans. Nasty ass snake.

#2 - Puff Adder - As noted, the exact numbers are unknown but snakes kill 30,000 people a year and it is believed more come from Puff Adder than any other snake. Most happen because their camouflage is so good and unlike our rattlesnake, they don't warn you to back off. They just sit still and depend on the camouflage and end up getting stepped on and bite the victim.

#1 - The Mosquito kills more than a million people a year in Africa from Malaria, Dengue Fever and Yellow Fever....Malaria kills 3,000 African children a day.

So there is the list of what really should worry you in Africa. That said, almost all of those deaths are from native villagers not hunters with guns and PHs/Trackers in front of them and Malaria Prophylactic Medicine in their bag.

But it should show you how important it is to take the Malaria Prophylactic if hunting in an area where Malaria is common.

The list order makes logical sense to me. I would think the toll due to crocs would be vastly undercounted in Africa though. Crocs don’t leave bodies and people in very rural areas go fishing and just don’t return. I’m not sure how those numbers would ever be accurately counted.
Here’s a puff adder from my hunt in Cameroon last week. Tracker was guiding Land Cruiser back to the road in the dark, luckily he doesn’t miss anything.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

damn, I hate those things

 

[TERMINATOR]

The list order makes logical sense to me. I would think the toll due to crocs would be vastly undercounted in Africa though. Crocs don’t leave bodies and people in very rural areas go fishing and just don’t return. I’m not sure how those numbers would ever be accurately counted.
Here’s a puff adder from my hunt in Cameroon last week. Tracker was guiding Land Cruiser back to the road in the dark, luckily he doesn’t miss anything.
View attachment 514830

Amazing camouflage

Yea, all of the counts I found researching it are estimates within a reasonable deviation. I think the point you made is the reason that crocs are above hippos in the list. Because often a body is never found as it is dragged under the water and stashed in a log jam etc. by the croc. But knowing how good the people are there when it comes to tracking and such, I think it would be pretty obvious that if some person was down by the river, washing their clothes and never came back…you can kinda guess what happened.

The list is kind of obvious when you read it but very few people think of the mosquito when they’re talking about the most prolific “killer animal” in Africa. At least not the first thing that comes to their mind unless they really think about it.

Yea, I want nothing to do with rivers in Afrca

 

[TERMINATOR]

I think the allure and mystique of the "Big 5" lures people away from the real concerns like snakes, malarial infections, and insect bites. Ironically, I spent some time in Brazil right before (lucky us) "Zika" became a problem. I am fairly certain myself and all of our party was infected. It had no real effect as none of us were planning children nor pregnant at the time. The good news is my yellow fever vax is still valid.

Now snakes, that concerns me. I also spent some time in the frontier of Colombia near the Venezuela border 4 years ago. We did run across a few "tres narices" which is the 3 nose snake, aka: the fer de lance. It became abundantly clear to me that you needed to mind your step as they told us we would likely be dead 4-5x over before we made it to the nearest hospital that was 3 hours, via dirt road, away.

This is all really great info and as a novice to Africa and African hunting, it is much appreciated.

Please don’t let any of this deter you or anybody else from hunting Africa. As noted clients of professional hunters are very rarely seriously injured or killed. I mean almost never. It’s super rare. But obviously you don’t want to do stupid shit out there and tempt fate.

The trackers and the PH are more at risk than the hunter. And they take protecting the client hunter very seriously.

The numbers listed are almost entirely simple villagers who are at way more risk than a hunter with a PH

And keep in mind that we are usually hunting in the cooler months when snakes are more dormant, where as the villagers are around them all year...including the months when the snakes are MOST active.

 

[IvW]

Most dangerous for me...

Unwounded elephant in particular cows with calves or s bull in must. Easy to kill and also easy to stop or stop a charge or get them to turn. Unfortuanately despite their size unprovoked attacks do occur and where often not seen until it is too late.
However if wounded or unwounded and you fail to stop it, this is the highest chance that you will have not surviving the encounter.....

Buffalo unwounded not a big issue....wounded big issue....they are difficult to stop and 99% of the time a charge is real and only a properly placed brain or neck spine shot will stop it they generally do not turn once they start a charge. They have an amazing ability to absorb lead...if it gets hold of you 2nd highest chance that you will not survive the encounter...

Lion unwounded during day not an issue can be during the night....easy to kill over bait etc..
Wounded and charging very difficult to accurately hit the right spot as they are fast....if it gets hold of you(male)....same chance of not making it as buffalo....

Leopard not an issue if not wounded.....wounded is a different story....very difficult to hit while charging from extreme close quaters due to size and extreme explosive speed.....you will likely survive the ordeal but you could have a sex change and you will look like you lost a fight with a chainsaw and multiple victims are the norm....requiring extensive stitches.....

Rhino especially white generally not an issue....black may charge just because they have poor eye sight and are very bad tempered but easy avoided...

 

[Philip Glass]

This probably isn’t going to help any future nerves whenever I embark to go after my big five but figured I’d ask anyway.

To start with, I understand that all of the big five have a lot of potential to seriously hurt or kill you. My curiosity lies more in the details from the hunters who have gone after one of the big five as to what were your presumptions and how they compared to how the hunt actually played out?

To my understanding from reading on here, the biggest thing that can turn a DG hunt south is bad shot placement. Is it something that is common for a big five species to charge/attack just from the sight of human presence?

Partly why I am curious is because I am planning my first safari in SA for sometime next year or the year after. I want to go after plains game but wouldn’t mind going after a buffalo if the opportunity presents itself. I am not a ‘big game’ hunter, at least not in the states. Upland and waterfowl is my favorite hunting. Defiantly no DG experience…yet. Is it foolish to even consider going after a Cape buffalo on my first Africa trip?

I was always left speechless from the stories of a lion attack on a family friend. I’m sure someone on here knows Mark Metzger, perhaps he is on here himself? I know he is a big time hunter of Africa. To my understanding it was just a very bad situation to be in hunting a predatory lion that quickly emphasized dangerous in dangerous game. Apart from the crazy stories, is a “run of the mill” DG hunt always on the upper level of danger?

I hope my questions all make sense. Just trying to get an idea of what a DG hunt really is and the level of danger that is there.

First of all a Buffalo hunt must be planned out. It is not an animal of opportunity. I recommend getting your feet wet with a PG hunt and then plan your next adventure. I've hunted all of the Big 5. From my experience here is the rundown of most dangerous to least dangerous:
Leopard with hounds (see my hunt report)- you are close and things can go wrong quickly.
Tuskless elephant cow- unpredictable
Buffalo- most close calls are likely with Buffalo whether wounded or not
Lion- you rarely hear of problems with lions but if there is an encounter is can be tragic
Leopard- (blind hunt) if you make a good shot all is well, if not then there can be problems.
Rhino- (assuming white rhino hunt) not a hard hunt but you must be cautious.
Just my opinion from my safaris. THE most important thing is to be a quick and proficient shooter and have a game plan with your PH ahead of time.
Enjoy planning your safari!
Regards,
Philip

 

[HookMeUpII]

Please don’t let any of this deter you or anybody else from hunting Africa. As noted clients of professional hunters are very rarely seriously injured or killed. I mean almost never. It’s super rare. But obviously you don’t want to do stupid shit out there and tempt fate.

The trackers and the PH are more at risk than the hunter. And they take protecting the client hunter very seriously.

The numbers listed are almost entirely simple villagers who are at way more risk than a hunter with a PH

And keep in mind that we are usually hunting in the cooler months when snakes are more dormant, where as the villagers are around them all year...including the months when the snakes are MOST active.

Oh we are going for sure. Counting the days. I put a ton more faith into the PH's in Africa than any of our hosts from Brazil and Colombia. Colombia, equally concerning, was the two-legged threat. I was the only "gringo" in our group. There were concerns regarding the two-legged fauna being that we were fishing in FARC territory. We had all the normal nasties: stingrays, fer-de-lance, the occasional free roaming jaguar, malaria, yellow-fever, some other nasty mosquito parasite called "colorado" that they explained lays eggs in the bite (may be another insect, translation was loose at best), and other fun stuff. One group companion had to be rushed to a clinic and administered Cipro due to a stomach bacterial infection that left him expelling out both ends, and severely dehydrated. He shouldn't have drank the coffee offered by the farm workers in the middle of the frontier. I, of course, passed but graciously.

I imagine this might be more like a very fun hunting vacation than what I've experienced lol. Sleeping in a tent in the middle of the frontier on the border of Venezuela during the rainy season with jaguars roaming around was sketchy at best.

And furthermore, I should also state by no means should this post deter anyone from fishing in South America. We weren't with pro-guides but rather, family. My wife is Colombian They treated us with the utmost hospitality and kindness. It's just when it came to mitigating risks they went about their daily routines. It's just the realities of living in the frontier for them.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Oh we are going for sure. Counting the days. I put a ton more faith into the PH's in Africa than any of our hosts from Brazil and Colombia. Colombia, equally concerning, was the two-legged threat. I was the only "gringo" in our group. There were concerns regarding the two-legged fauna being that we were fishing in FARC territory. We had all the normal nasties: stingrays, fer-de-lance, the occasional free roaming jaguar, malaria, yellow-fever, some other nasty mosquito parasite called "colorado" that they explained lays eggs in the bite (may be another insect, translation was loose at best), and other fun stuff. One group companion had to be rushed to a clinic and administered Cipro due to a stomach bacterial infection that left him expelling out both ends, and severely dehydrated. He shouldn't have drank the coffee offered by the farm workers in the middle of the frontier. I, of course, passed but graciously.

I imagine this might be more like a very fun hunting vacation than what I've experienced lol. Sleeping in a tent in the middle of the frontier on the border of Venezuela during the rainy season with jaguars roaming around was sketchy at best.

And furthermore, I should also state by no means should this post deter anyone from fishing in South America. We weren't with pro-guides but rather, family. My wife is Colombian They treated us with the utmost hospitality and kindness. It's just when it came to mitigating risks they went about their daily routines. It's just the realities of living in the frontier for them.

Yea RSA will seem tame after that

 

[Scott CWO]

This probably isn’t going to help any future nerves whenever I embark to go after my big five but figured I’d ask anyway.

To start with, I understand that all of the big five have a lot of potential to seriously hurt or kill you. My curiosity lies more in the details from the hunters who have gone after one of the big five as to what were your presumptions and how they compared to how the hunt actually played out?

To my understanding from reading on here, the biggest thing that can turn a DG hunt south is bad shot placement. Is it something that is common for a big five species to charge/attack just from the sight of human presence?

Partly why I am curious is because I am planning my first safari in SA for sometime next year or the year after. I want to go after plains game but wouldn’t mind going after a buffalo if the opportunity presents itself. I am not a ‘big game’ hunter, at least not in the states. Upland and waterfowl is my favorite hunting. Defiantly no DG experience…yet. Is it foolish to even consider going after a Cape buffalo on my first Africa trip?

I was always left speechless from the stories of a lion attack on a family friend. I’m sure someone on here knows Mark Metzger, perhaps he is on here himself? I know he is a big time hunter of Africa. To my understanding it was just a very bad situation to be in hunting a predatory lion that quickly emphasized dangerous in dangerous game. Apart from the crazy stories, is a “run of the mill” DG hunt always on the upper level of danger?

I hope my questions all make sense. Just trying to get an idea of what a DG hunt really is and the level of danger that is there.

Speaking from personal experience of nine trips (on one of which I was almost killed), whether they are militants, poachers or impoverished inner-city people, the two-legged critters are the most dangerous issue in Africa.

In South Africa, don’t leave the airport unescorted thinking you’re just going to just take a walk around town and do some shopping on your own. Have situational awareness and stay with your PH, even if you stop for fuel or groceries. You’re PH will let you know what to do.

As for animals, assuming you’re on anti-malarial drugs and on a high-fenced ranch in SA hunting plains game, a random encounter with a black rhino, snake or a surprised buffalo would be about all that could happen. White rhinos are not as aggressive as the black rhino. However, any wounded animal, even plains game species, requires caution.

In open, wilderness concessions in other countries, the listing that @IvW provided seems spot on. In addition, a leopard hunt with hounds like @Philip Glass experienced can be a risky hunt and not to be taken lightly.

 

[Rubi_300]

It will tick off a few people, but it's my opinion, you asked for it, and it's probably worth what you are paying for it

So no not really. Not like in Tanzania or Mozambique, or Zimbabwe. Those four countries are the only ones in Africa I've hunted so far. I'm guessing Zambia has wild places and quite sure if you want the full on experience as shared by a fine old gentleman at the AH dinner recently where he quietly stated that he'd been shot at, shot back, held hostage. Pretty well been everywhere and done everything.... Go to West or Central Africa. Seems pretty wild where you can hunt Bongo, forest elephant, forest buffalo, Lord Derby Eland...

I digress, I get to dreaming of all these places while typing You can find some very large properties in RSA, but there are fences, some are a long ways apart, but they are there. I have hunted a lot in RSA where there was no high fence. It's farm country mostly. So some low fences, and especially on the night hunts with Bossie, a lot of vegetable farms, corn farms, and orchards. Got my Cape Greysbok in the EC in an alfalfa field. All good fun but a bit like hunting in the US.

BTW, I believe it is against the law to have DG without a high fence. Now leopard are roaming everywhere, but you cannot effectively get a tag in RSA. But Buffalo will be behind a fence or in an area connected to Kruger. Of course Kruger is fenced but bigger than Rhode Island...

If you want to drive several hours from the last human settlement, and hunt close to a million acres of pure wilderness, go to Tanzania. I can hook you up with a guy but do it right, full bag, 4 buffalo, leopard, lion, full slate of PG including Roan and Sable. Expect to spend all of 100k USD. It's worth it

I have been looking at crusader safaris to go with in South Africa. That's their main thing it seems they advertise about is that it free roaming animals and no high fence. Fences used for cattle but nothing that wont keep an African game animal from jumping. Any feedback about them?

I am not quite sure I am up for a hunt that extreme..yet. It sounds temping but I need the experience of plains game under my belt before I go that extreme. Maybe in a few years once I get my first trip wrapped up we will have to see about Tanzania.

 

[Rubi_300]

You probably have this figured out. The cost of flying over, especially for two people, is more than a 5 day discount hunt! And you have 3 or 4 days, possibly more invested in travel. And it can be miserable and frustrating. If you are a business man, you can understand how that is a big part of the Overhead Cost, as is your gear, practice, training. So it makes sense to "dilute" that Overhead cost over as many days as you reasonably can. I like 3 weeks. Or at least 16 to 17 days for those with a day job. Two weeks plus the extra weekend and perhaps fly out the Friday evening before.

That's why 3 full weeks sounds good for me. I would rather "dilute" the "overhead cost" on a longer trip than to have so much money eaten up my plane tickets for multiple shorter trips. With 15 days hunting it'll still leave some room for sightseeing and whatever else is out there that isn't hunting.

 

[Rubi_300]

Speaking from personal experience of nine trips (on one of which I was almost killed), whether they are militants, poachers or impoverished inner-city people, the two-legged critters are the most dangerous issue in Africa.

In South Africa, don’t leave the airport unescorted thinking you’re just going to just take a walk around town and do some shopping on your own. Have situational awareness and stay with your PH, even if you stop for fuel or groceries. You’re PH will let you know what to do.

As for animals, assuming you’re on anti-malarial drugs and on a high-fenced ranch in SA hunting plains game, a random encounter with a black rhino, snake or a surprised buffalo would be about all that could happen. White rhinos are not as aggressive as the black rhino. However, any wounded animal, even plains game species, requires caution.

In open, wilderness concessions in other countries, the listing that @IvW provided seems spot on. In addition, a leopard hunt with hounds like @Philip Glass experienced can be a risky hunt and not to be taken lightly.

Do you care to share your story on your near death experiences in Africa?

That has seemed to be the general consensus is that in SA we will be pretty safe especially with a good PH. Keep my senses alert and don't be dumb.

 

[Rubi_300]

First of all a Buffalo hunt must be planned out. It is not an animal of opportunity. I recommend getting your feet wet with a PG hunt and then plan your next adventure. I've hunted all of the Big 5. From my experience here is the rundown of most dangerous to least dangerous:
Leopard with hounds (see my hunt report)- you are close and things can go wrong quickly.
Tuskless elephant cow- unpredictable
Buffalo- most close calls are likely with Buffalo whether wounded or not
Lion- you rarely hear of problems with lions but if there is an encounter is can be tragic
Leopard- (blind hunt) if you make a good shot all is well, if not then there can be problems.
Rhino- (assuming white rhino hunt) not a hard hunt but you must be cautious.
Just my opinion from my safaris. THE most important thing is to be a quick and proficient shooter and have a game plan with your PH ahead of time.
Enjoy planning your safari!
Regards,
Philip

That's what I was mainly curious about finding out. I am going to hold out for any DG at least for this trip. It is going to be a family trip so not really the right time to have so many others in a foreign country when something could go wrong.

It is a lot to take in even online when you start trying to line up so many animals in one hunt. I think I should enjoy the plains game on its own and make my second trip DG oriented.

 

[rookhawk]

This probably isn’t going to help any future nerves whenever I embark to go after my big five but figured I’d ask anyway.

To start with, I understand that all of the big five have a lot of potential to seriously hurt or kill you. My curiosity lies more in the details from the hunters who have gone after one of the big five as to what were your presumptions and how they compared to how the hunt actually played out?

To my understanding from reading on here, the biggest thing that can turn a DG hunt south is bad shot placement. Is it something that is common for a big five species to charge/attack just from the sight of human presence?

Partly why I am curious is because I am planning my first safari in SA for sometime next year or the year after. I want to go after plains game but wouldn’t mind going after a buffalo if the opportunity presents itself. I am not a ‘big game’ hunter, at least not in the states. Upland and waterfowl is my favorite hunting. Defiantly no DG experience…yet. Is it foolish to even consider going after a Cape buffalo on my first Africa trip?

I was always left speechless from the stories of a lion attack on a family friend. I’m sure someone on here knows Mark Metzger, perhaps he is on here himself? I know he is a big time hunter of Africa. To my understanding it was just a very bad situation to be in hunting a predatory lion that quickly emphasized dangerous in dangerous game. Apart from the crazy stories, is a “run of the mill” DG hunt always on the upper level of danger?

I hope my questions all make sense. Just trying to get an idea of what a DG hunt really is and the level of danger that is there.

Big-5 aren't typically very dangerous at all until a bad shot is made. Then things get mighty dangerous.

Elephants can be dangerous in two situations though, even before the shot. 1.) thick jess and a herd of bulls gets your scent, panics, and runs away in all directions and one of those directions is on top of you. 2.) As @mark-hunter stated, cows can be very dangerous just because they want to be. Tuskless x10.

Previously wounded big-5 can be dangerous when not expected, that's why the hunter's ethic dictates you pursue your injured game until you cannot walk another step. even if it ruins your entire 21 day hunt. You hope to God the last guy that put a bad shot in had the same recovery ethics before that previously injured animal kills a kid, villager, or the next hunter in the bush.

 

[Scott CWO]

Do you care to share your story on your near death experiences in Africa?

That has seemed to be the general consensus is that in SA we will be pretty safe especially with a good PH. Keep my senses alert and don't be dumb.

I sent you the story via PM. Check your messages. Everyone else here has seen it before.

 

[Philip Glass]

I have been looking at crusader safaris to go with in South Africa. That's their main thing it seems they advertise about is that it free roaming animals and no high fence. Fences used for cattle but nothing that wont keep an African game animal from jumping. Any feedback about them?

I am not quite sure I am up for a hunt that extreme..yet. It sounds temping but I need the experience of plains game under my belt before I go that extreme. Maybe in a few years once I get my first trip wrapped up we will have to see about Tanzania.

Much of the African game can not jump a cattle fence. Be cautious on open range claims.

 

[0002S]

If I get charged or am in a random dangerous situation, I've either 'done it wrong' or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. One I have a lot of control over, the other is just dumb luck. As a close friend of mine says, "if at the end of a hunt, it seems very uneventful, then you've done your job correctly"

If I can make one suggestion to you. Don't get paralysis through analysis and set expectations on your hunt that could never be achieved without perfection. Nothing on an international hunting or fishing trip ever goes perfect. There are too many variables that are out of my control. Also, more is less when it comes to gear. I can't stress this enough.

Hunting and fishing are experiences, that are more than the actual game I shoot and fish I catch. It's the people, places and things I see and experience. I keep an open mind to the game I'll shoot and am more interested in taking a quality trophy than I am a specific trophy. There will always be another chance. The day that there isn't, I'll be dead and won't know what I've missed. My best hunts have been for opportunities that presented themselves rather than what I was looking for.

If you want to shoot a buffalo on your first trip, do it. The buffalo won't know it's your first trip, the PH will factor your skill level in and put you in a safe position do your part. Doing your part is all on you.

As far as fences, go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary. There are plenty of fenced places, that you can hunt on, that you and the animal you're hunting will never know there is a fence. I personally don't like hunting on small fenced in ranches or concessions, but I've hunted on large ones that I could not tell there was a fence. In the states, high fenced ranches have an advantage that they have controlled genetics and better trophy opportunities. I've never hunted on a ranch where I've hand fed and petted my trophy before I shot it. Contrary to some public land state hunter's opinions, high fenced hunting is not a petting zoo. Since both options are available, you're not limited to anything but your expectations.

Get your ticket, take a rifle, bow or a sharp pointed object, and go too somewhere in Africa and hunt. Enjoy yourself and do it again if you liked it.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

If I get charged or am in a random dangerous situation, I've either 'done it wrong' or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. One I have a lot of control over, the other is just dumb luck. As a close friend of mine says, "if at the end of a hunt, it seems very uneventful, then you've done your job correctly"

If I can make one suggestion to you. Don't get paralysis through analysis and set expectations on your hunt that could never be achieved without perfection. Nothing on an international hunting or fishing trip ever goes perfect. There are too many variables that are out of my control. Also, more is less when it comes to gear. I can't stress this enough.

Hunting and fishing are experiences, that are more than the actual game I shoot and fish I catch. It's the people, places and things I see and experience. I keep an open mind to the game I'll shoot and am more interested in taking a quality trophy than I am a specific trophy. There will always be another chance. The day that there isn't, I'll be dead and won't know what I've missed. My best hunts have been for opportunities that presented themselves rather than what I was looking for.

If you want to shoot a buffalo on your first trip, do it. The buffalo won't know it's your first trip, the PH will factor your skill level in and put you in a safe position do your part. Doing your part is all on you.

As far as fences, go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary. There are plenty of fenced places, that you can hunt on, that you and the animal you're hunting will never know there is a fence. I personally don't like hunting on small fenced in ranches or concessions, but I've hunted on large ones that I could not tell there was a fence. In the states, high fenced ranches have an advantage that they have controlled genetics and better trophy opportunities. I've never hunted on a ranch where I've hand fed and petted my trophy before I shot it. Contrary to some public land state hunter's opinions, high fenced hunting is not a petting zoo. Since both options are available, you're not limited to anything but your expectations.

Get your ticket, take a rifle, bow or a sharp pointed object, and go too somewhere in Africa and hunt. Enjoy yourself and do it again if you liked it.

The “go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary” pro-high fence argument is akin to a drinker using the “it’s five o’clock somewhere” argument (you can do it but should it be done or to what degree should it be done). I should know, I used to use the latter argument A LOT. Don’t get me wrong, MANY African high fence (and low fence) operations do it the right way and the situation is different there than it is here but to act like there’s no difference between a fenced and un-fenced area is ludicrous.

People so often say it “felt wild” or “the fence never played a factor” or “the animals acted more wild than animals I’ve seen in Uganda (or wherever)” but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. It sounds like the millennial feelings based arguments for literally everything.

What conservation value do the vast majority of North American high fences hold? I mean besides the ones that have played a direct role in rescuing SOME species from extinction. Absolutely zero IMO

 

[0002S]

The “go in any direction long enough and you will hit a natural or man made boundary” pro-high fence argument is akin to a drinker using the “it’s five o’clock somewhere” argument (you can do it but should it be done or to what degree should it be done). I should know, I used to use the latter argument A LOT. Don’t get me wrong, MANY African high fence (and low fence) operations do it the right way and the situation is different there than it is here but to act like there’s no difference between a fenced and un-fenced area is ludicrous.

People so often say it “felt wild” or “the fence never played a factor” or “the animals acted more wild than animals I’ve seen in Uganda (or wherever)” but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. It sounds like the millennial feelings based arguments for literally everything.

What conservation value do the vast majority of North American high fences hold? I mean besides the ones that have played a direct role in rescuing SOME species from extinction. Absolutely zero IMO

They promote hunting in places where you can't hunt because there isn't public land available to hunt on or the tag draw process has a very low success rate. If you don't own land or have access to it, you can't hunt. Because there is a value on game, there is a reason to manage the game and provide an experience for profit. Because there is great competition, the land owners and outfitters are in the business of providing a great experience or they don't get repeat clients. The effect is a well managed population of the animal.

I've never heard, "more wild" or "felt wild". An animal eats, sleeps, drinks and breeds. It has a natural range it lives in as long as it can eat, sleep, drink and breed.

The vast majority of people against high fence hunting have never tried it.

I have experiences all over the US, high, low, free range. I have 4 different concessions experiences in SA.

For me the experience is not boundary related but geography related. Hunting in vast plains or open mountains and valleys has a different experience that heavy woods or swap or low thick brush with sendaros and feeders. All provided a different type and method of hunting. Some were physically harder and others mentally boring. I can say that I have preferences and enjoyed some more over the others. I can also tell you that I've tried hunts where I though, this won't be fun or challenging only to find out my perception of the method was wrong because I didn't grow up in an area that allowed that method. None of these experience were or were not effected by boundaries.

I personally enjoy spot and stalk hunting over sitting in a blind, but some types of hunts require sitting in a blind so I roll with it and get the experience.

I do not like smallish (less that 2000 acres) ranches that are high/low/no fence. They are usually too close to civilization and you can hear civilization sometime. But that's me.

The biggest difference from high to low to free range hunting is genetics. High fence operations will manage their populations through genetics and over 5-10 years will have a population of animals that have a higher percent of large trophy opportunity, than you'd have the chance to see on low or public. This is why there are two sets of records in most states and organizations. I also believe the trophy size, paid to shoot, is what pisses people off who don't hunt high fence.

I am sure there are poorly managed or unscrupulous operations. I can't speak to these as I have no experience with them and don't know anyone who has.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

There is potential danger and imminent danger, call it orange and red. All DG hunting is potentially dangerous, but what instantly turns it from orange to red is the first shot being off. Now the game shifts to the PH and in my view what is now required is a competent and experienced PH but also WITH a double rifle of at least 450/400, preferably larger. Just me, but I will not hunt DG again with a PH who isn't so equipped. And I will have my double too.