How big an animal would you take with this caliber?

[Divernhunter]

That combo will do fine for what you stated and more. Shot placement and break a shoulder is what my PH told us. My daughter used a 257Roberts and 120gr Swift A-Frames for her animals, zebra, red hartebeest, impala, warthogs, kudu. All one shot kills from 135-410 yards. You really do not need a 338mag like I used.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

zebra , kudu , sable , blue wb,
the projectile is a wee bit light , but going that fast , id go after most of the bigger antelope, especially doing 1/2 inch groups,
as long as the P.H and or the outfitter approved .......

I agree with Bluey.
Witold

 

[enysse]

I used my 7mm Rem Mag last year and Mr. Sable was not too impressed with my 160 gr. Swift A. I didn't lose it, but I didn't knock it down either. My bullets were very, very, very excellent on bushbuck, klipspringer, honey badger, porcupine...DRT. The sable is tough, don't underestimate them, even with good shots. Yes, the Barnes is better but I would go with more bullet weight.

 

[lcq]

and that is the only issue I have with the load presented. Bush.

I don't shoot through bush ever, clear shot or they walk

 

[lcq]

I used my 7mm Rem Mag last year and Mr. Sable was not too impressed with my 160 gr. Swift A. I didn't lose it, but I didn't knock it down either. My bullets were very, very, very excellent on bushbuck, klipspringer, honey badger, porcupine...DRT. The sable is tough, don't underestimate them, even with good shots. Yes, the Barnes is better but I would go with more bullet weight.

I used that load in May and it is deadly at short range, I'll be shooting a lot further if I do the Reedbuck hunt

 

[lcq]

That combo will do fine for what you stated and more. Shot placement and break a shoulder is what my PH told us. My daughter used a 257Roberts and 120gr Swift A-Frames for her animals, zebra, red hartebeest, impala, warthogs, kudu. All one shot kills from 135-410 yards. You really do not need a 338mag like I used.

So it looks like a 120gr @2800 in capable hands did the largest animals I would shoot at and I likely won't be shooting past 350. I would like to go for Kudu, Gemsbuck, hartebeest, mountain reedbuck and springbuck

Nice to know thanks

 

[matt85]

i agree with the others on using a 140gr+ grain bullet. 110gr is very light for a 7mm bullet especially for African game.

-matt

 

[lcq]

i agree with the others on using a 140gr+ grain bullet. 110gr is very light for a 7mm bullet especially for African game.

-matt

If it were a lead bullet I would agree 100% but it is a monometal bullet. Some believe they behave like a lead bullet 30% heavier that would mean 143gr

 

[matt85]

i sorta agree, however there is still the matter of momentum. a lighter bullet will slow down much faster on impact then a heavy bullet will. i believe on heavy tough PG like Zebra and Eland a heavier bullet would be a better choice for those quartering away shots or shots that hit the shoulder bone.

-matt

 

[lcq]

i sorta agree, however there is still the matter of momentum. a lighter bullet will slow down much faster on impact then a heavy bullet will. i believe on heavy tough PG like Zebra and Eland a heavier bullet would be a better choice for those quartering away shots or shots that hit the shoulder bone.

-matt

I absolutely agree. I just wanted to know if others had used something similar because I don't want to bring two rifles and two different loads. DivernHunter gave me concrete examples with a 257 Roberts. I want to hunt reedbuck and the ideal rifle is my very light 243 but it would be a terrible choice for Kudu and gemsbuck. I'm a very ethical hunter (except for vermin) and only take clean shots. If I bring this gun and load and shoot anything larger it will be <150M straight sideways.

 

[matt85]

as long as your willing to pass on an animal here and there then i dont see an issue. but it can be very difficult to pass on a exceptional trophy when you sumble upon it. i would rather be over gunned for all my animals then under gunned for a great animal i find by chance. using a 140gr TSX on a reedbuck would be fine, heck ive used a .416" 300gr TSX on a impala.

what if you stumble upon a perfect eland bull or zebra that wont give you anything but a quartering shot? could you pass on the perfect animal because your rifle is loaded too light or would you risk the shot?

-matt

 

[lcq]

as long as your willing to pass on an animal here and there then i dont see an issue. but it can be very difficult to pass on a exceptional trophy when you sumble upon it. i would rather be over gunned for all my animals then under gunned for a great animal i find by chance. using a 140gr TSX on a reedbuck would be fine, heck ive used a .416" 300gr TSX on a impala.

what if you stumble upon a perfect eland bull or zebra that wont give you anything but a quartering shot? could you pass on the perfect animal because your rifle is loaded too light or would you risk the shot?

-matt

Zebra is in the tannery, not going for eland. I'm looking for Kudu, hartebeest, reedbuck and gemsbuck

 

[huntingbigun]

I absolutely agree. I just wanted to know if others had used something similar because I don't want to bring two rifles and two different loads. DivernHunter gave me concrete examples with a 257 Roberts. I want to hunt reedbuck and the ideal rifle is my very light 243 but it would be a terrible choice for Kudu and gemsbuck. I'm a very ethical hunter (except for vermin) and only take clean shots. If I bring this gun and load and shoot anything larger it will be <150M straight sideways.

You seem to be locked in to 110 grains even though you had some great advice to use heavier bullet, the 257 Roberts is 25 caliber as you know and the normal weights for that ranges from 75 to 110 grains were the 7mm range of 140 to 168 bullet weight. The only thing you are gaining is small amount of speed but if you compare it to 150TTSX by Coefficent .319 for 110 compared to .450 for the 150/145 Lr is .486, in short you using a short stubby light weight flat based bullet most are suggesting you use a longer heavier bullet boat tail such as 150/140/145TTSX.

Then were ranges up to 300 yards in a hunting application the advantages of speed versus stability/weight/co efficient/sectional density coupled with African game are tough little critters just do not add up in my book. coupled that I took everything from Capes greybuck to Kudu with 7mm 150TTSX including Reedbuck over 400 yards. I sure you will have great hunt and be happy with your load just leaving lot on the table by such a lite bullet in 7mm Mag. I have loaded the 110 and most use it for higher speed into the 3500 range so your only pushing it to 3300 much closer to heavier bullet speed . Not trying to argue but I just do not see the advantage in load data or practical use for Africa of this load in a 7MM Mag ,

 

[lcq]

You seem to be locked in to 110 grains even though you had some great advice to use heavier bullet, the 257 Roberts is 25 caliber as you know and the normal weights for that ranges from 75 to 110 grains were the 7mm range of 140 to 168 bullet weight. The only thing you are gaining is small amount of speed but if you compare it to 150TTSX by Coefficent .319 for 110 compared to .450 for the 150/145 Lr is .486, in short you using a short stubby light weight flat based bullet most are suggesting you use a longer heavier bullet boat tail such as 150/140/145TTSX.

Then were ranges up to 300 yards in a hunting application the advantages of speed versus stability/weight/co efficient/sectional density coupled with African game are tough little critters just do not add up in my book. coupled that I took everything from Capes greybuck to Kudu with 7mm 150TTSX including Reedbuck over 400 yards. I sure you will have great hunt and be happy with your load just leaving lot on the table by such a lite bullet in 7mm Mag. I have loaded the 110 and most use it for higher speed into the 3500 range so your only pushing it to 3300 much closer to heavier bullet speed . Not trying to argue but I just do not see the advantage in load data or practical use for Africa of this load in a 7MM Mag ,

I fail to understand the 257 issue you raised. The 257 is shooting a smaller .25 vs .284 bullet at 2800 vs 3300, very large advantage in energy for the 110gr. I want accurate ammo and the 110 shoots and shoots very well. I'm very practical and from a field position will not shoot more than 300yds (unless prone and bipod, which almost never happens). I get the rational for heavy bullets but that is based on lead not copper. A very professional PH and experienced on this board has had complete pass throughs on an eland from a 308 130gr

 

[matt85]

if you are already so sure of the load then why did you bother posting this thread? so far you have shot down any one who has suggested that your load might not be the best choice.

i am done here, i wish you the best of luck on your hunt.

-matt

 

[huntingbigun]

I fail to understand the 257 issue you raised. The 257 is shooting a smaller .25 vs .284 bullet at 2800 vs 3300, very large advantage in energy for the 110gr. I want accurate ammo and the 110 shoots and shoots very well. I'm very practical and from a field position will not shoot more than 300yds (unless prone and bipod, which almost never happens). I get the rational for heavy bullets but that is based on lead not copper. A very professional PH and experienced on this board has had complete pass throughs on an eland from a 308 130gr

You just want to be right so you can be, the reason I brought up 257 because you quoted that validated your reason for 110, I been loading 7mm bullets for bench and hunting a long time in 7mm mag, 280AI and others and you choose to ignore facts, misquote so now I am done as well.

just for a little more fun I have taken many animals over 300 yards without being prone and bipod, and rational I used quoted bullet specs like co efficient sectional density etc 110 flat based not known as accurate long range bullet those factors why I would shoot different bullet never said spit about copper or 257 Read up on bullet co efficient you may understand what I am trying to tell you, the 110 sucks to be blunt in all of those mathematical calculations.

You have yet to quote someone that used 110 grain 7mm bullet in Africa so again 130 grain 308 got nothing to do with 110 grain 7mm bullet as well as the lead versus copper thing ?? you shooting lead bullets in your 7mag??? me I use copper jacketed when I not using Barnes

Sure you be happy with 110 as that what you want to hear feel better now

 

[IronCowboy]

In my experience, there is nothing to gain by running light-for-caliber bullets at super-velocity speeds. It's flatter shooting at short ranges, but will have more drop at longer range, less penetration, and less impact.

Running the numbers on your 110grn TTSX at 3300fps vs. a 140grn TTSX at 3100fps, there's less than 1.5" difference in trajectory out to 600yrds, and the 110grn has MORE drop past 600yrds than the 140. The 140grn, on the other hand, has 12-40% more energy, increasing from 0 up to 500yrds (up to almost 80% more energy at 1000yrds), and 20% up to 35% more momentum, again, increasing from 0 to 500yrds (~50% more at 1000yrds).

Velocity can't outrun aerodynamics, and heavier bullets hit harder than light ones.

 

[IronCowboy]

I missed the tail end of this thread before I posted yesterday, otherwise I would have saved my breath. lcq - you seem to be set on light bullets, so I wish you the best. I would say that you've been duly warned - you're crippling your 7mm Mag in doing so.

If it were a lead bullet I would agree 100% but it is a monometal bullet. Some believe they behave like a lead bullet 30% heavier that would mean 143gr

This is misguided. I've been hunting and experimenting with monometals for the last 15yrs, and I will say that this is not correct. If "some believe" what you've proposed, then I'd say that those "some" are very misguided. The monometals tend to penetrate as deeply as a heavier bullet, but that doesn't mean that they do the job of a heavier pill. For equivalent bullet weights, the all copper pills will be longer than a copper jacketed lead bullet due to its lower average density, so it'll end up being a bit 'sharper' passing into the wound. Similarly, the gilding metal or copper monometals are less malleable than lead, so the expansion isn't as good - sure, you'll see the "petals" open up and the overall diameter might be large, but you don't see the same degree of physical deformation. Peeling a banana takes less energy than squashing one; a flower-petaled bullet didn't transfer as much killing power as a mushroomed bullet.

If you want penetration, then you want a non-lead monometal. If you want killing power, you don't. If you want rapid expansion on varmints, you want high velocity, lightweight, fragile constructed bullets. If you want killing power on larger game, you don't.

 

[Pheroze]

...If "some believe" what you've proposed, then I'd say that those "some" are very misguided. The monometals tend to penetrate as deeply as a heavier bullet, but that doesn't mean that they do the job of a heavier pill. For equivalent bullet weights, the all copper pills will be longer than a copper jacketed lead bullet due to its lower average density, so it'll end up being a bit 'sharper' passing into the wound. Similarly, the gilding metal or copper monometals are less malleable than lead, so the expansion isn't as good - sure, you'll see the "petals" open up and the overall diameter might be large, but you don't see the same degree of physical deformation. Peeling a banana takes less energy than squashing one; a flower-petaled bullet didn't transfer as much killing power as a mushroomed bullet.

If you want penetration, then you want a non-lead monometal. If you want killing power, you don't. If you want rapid expansion on varmints, you want high velocity, lightweight, fragile constructed bullets. If you want killing power on larger game, you don't.

I find myself completely perplexed by the debate. Granted my knowledge is 99% academic. For example, in 375 H&H we have 200gr GS Customs being used successfully on Cape Buffalo and on the other hand we have 350gr Woodleigh's being touted as a great idea for the same beast.

Icq's load seems to be in line with the GS Custom theory of a monometal bullet that is light and fast.

Is it possible that both theories are correct and there are two different routes to the same result? The animal does not die until it bleeds enough. Heavy/slow and light/fast will destroy tissue in different ways but they will do it. What makes me hesitate on the monometals is an idea @velodog wrote about (and I hope I am paraphrasing him correctly): that is the idea of deflection. Icq's load would not have the same straight line integrity if it does not hit a bone straight on to break it. A high speed monometal 110gr will deflect more dramatically than a slower and softer 140gr lead bullet.

If I am getting this then the issue for Icq is not whether one bullet type and load will fail or not in a general sense. But, are the weaknesses inherent to the bullet and load exacerbated by the choice of target? That is a question of balancing risk and benefits for the particular hunt, which may be a personal decision.

I dunno. Still not sure but it sounds good to me.

 

[IronCowboy]

We're not contrasting heavy/slow against light/fast - 140grns at 3100fps is far from heavy, and far from slow. So the contrasting differential between killing via hydrostatic shock and/or temporary cavity hemorrhagic damage vs. killing via crushing tissue trauma (as in the comparison of the .30-06 and the .45-70, both with similar energy) just doesn't apply here.

If there were an advantage for lightweight pills running a touch faster over standard weight or even semi-heavy for caliber bullets at standard, or even semi-slow for cartridge pills, I would have found it sometime in the last 15yrs of experimenting on different game. It just doesn't pan out. Everybody wants to go after that "super flat trajectory," but in reality, it's not really advantageous - see my first post for trajectory comparison - velocity can't outrun aerodynamics. Under 500yrds, there's almost no difference in trajectory anyway, so "flat" versus "super-flat" is moot, and beyond that, the better aerodynamics win out.

Is a 110grn pill at 3400fps enough to kill the targeted game? Sure. Does it have an advantage over a 140grn pill at 3200-3300fps? Nope.