Hornady’s Online Reloading Manual

[CoElkHunter]

So, I pulled up Hornady’s online reloading manual a couple of days ago. I was looking at the .458WM vs. .458 Lott. With 24” barrels and 500gr. bullets, the manual showed the muzzle velocity at the low end using H4895 in the WM and RL15 in the Lott at 1950fps in the WM and 1900fps in the Lott. The maximum for BOTH was 2150fps. Really? I think the guy(s) at Hornady who created this manual must have been sampling some adult gummy bears or something? LOL

 

[JimP]

I'm finding that in today's world that load data either in the online or paper copies is on the light side. It may be due to liability issues and they just want to keep everything safe for everyone.

I know that most of my old paper copies are way hotter than the new stuff. For my .340 Weatherby the Barnes manual doesn't even come close to what I am shooting and the load that I have wasn't even the max load out of a old book. Now they are stretching things to get the 225 grain bullet to around 2900 fps where I have them clocking at 3,000 fps.

It's the society that we now live in.

 

[Rule 303]

With todays suggested loads, max velocities and a Chronograph I am finding the loads from 40 years ago are closer to the mark and some of them are clearly on the safe side.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I was just commenting on Hornady showing their minimum velocity for the WM 50fps FASTER than their minimum for the Lott and BOTH at 2150 for their maximum. That means Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen when using Hornady’s load data can get his .35 Whelen faster than a .358 Norma Magnum. I love revisionary ballistics! LOL

 

[JimP]

For the most part a home loader will have a hard time duplicating the velocities that the factories are showing because the factories usually use test barrels and not actual firearms. They'll get what pressure and velocity out of the same shot.

But the home loader can come close.

 

[Rule 303]

I was just commenting on Hornady showing their minimum velocity for the WM 50fps FASTER than their minimum for the Lott and BOTH at 2150 for their maximum. That means Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen when using Hornady’s load data can get his .35 Whelen faster than a .358 Norma Magnum. I love revisionary ballistics! LOL

I have noticed this phenomenon with several calibres. With some it is they are using data from 50 or more years ago and the other is using current powders and data. Poor proof checking can lead to a lot of head scratching.

 

[Hunter4752001]

In fairness to the manufacturers, I was told by a friend in the industry that many years ago load data was often extrapolated from known standards and the use of mathematical modelling. These often didn't correspond very well to real outcomes. More modern practices call for actual measuring which is facilitated by sensors for measuring actual pressure (psi) as distinct from older copper crusher techniques (CUP).

Also bear in mind that the powder you buy today may not be the same powder you bought previously. Much of the powder used in the US is not made by the companies distributing it. They source it from various overseas companies and simply apply a US name to it.

That being said, I'm sure people are correct in suggesting that risk aversion /liability issues ae also a significant factor in published loads.

 

[CoElkHunter]

For the most part a home loader will have a hard time duplicating the velocities that the factories are showing because the factories usually use test barrels and not actual firearms. They'll get what pressure and velocity out of the same shot.

But the home loader can come close.

True, but in my example, Hornady shows their WM and Lott loads tested with 24" barrels and the same 500gr. bullets. Different powders but usually the load manuals pump up at least the maximum load velocities and/or best accuracy loads. My physical Hornady manual from 2016 shows H335 with hotter loads for both and it's not even mentioned on their online reloading manual? Oh well, I was bored at work last night, so I pulled up the Hornady online manual. I need to stop doing that. LOL

 

[CZDiesel]

So, I pulled up Hornady’s online reloading manual a couple of days ago. I was looking at the .458WM vs. .458 Lott. With 24” barrels and 500gr. bullets, the manual showed the muzzle velocity at the low end using H4895 in the WM and RL15 in the Lott at 1950fps in the WM and 1900fps in the Lott. The maximum for BOTH was 2150fps. Really? I think the guy(s) at Hornady who created this manual must have been sampling some adult gummy bears or something? LOL

View attachment 634633

Blasphemy! You obviously have not learned that since I have a 458 WinMag and not a Lott that the WinMag are obviously a superior cartridge! Hornady knows this lol

 

[CoElkHunter]

Blasphemy! You obviously have not learned that since I have a 458 WinMag and not a Lott that the WinMag are obviously a superior cartridge! Hornady knows this lol

Ha! Ha! I think Hornady came up with the same velocities for both in case someone wants to shoot the Lott in their WM? A little tight in the chamber but that's what a rubber mallet is for. LOL

 

[CZDiesel]

@CoElkHunter
I wish you could have gone out to Dragonmans with us this last weekend! My 22” Winchester shot the 500gr Hornadys at 2170fps for 5228ftlbs! Thumper!!!

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
I wish you could have gone out to Dragonmans with us this last weekend! My 22” Winchester shot the 500gr Hornadys at 2170fps! Thumper!!!

I'll make it out eventually, but right now the damn bastards I work for are not accommodating. Come next April, I'll be out of the lithium mines and free to pursue retinal detachments shooting big bores on a much more regular basis. LOL

 

[WAB]

Hornady’s online manual is terrible. It must have been written by a bunch of lawyers. I keep half a dozen older manuals on hand and do a lot of cross referencing in load development.

 

[mdwest]

Hornady’s online manual is terrible. It must have been written by a bunch of lawyers. I keep half a dozen older manuals on hand and do a lot of cross referencing in load development.

^^ this ^^

I’ve got barnes, Lyman, sierra, and hornady manuals that are all early editions as well as Waters Pet Loads… for my more traditional cartridges like 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, etc I don’t even bother opening a newer manual..

Doesn’t help me much for the 300 PRC or other newer generation stuff… I just use the new manuals to obtain starting points for those cartridges and build up slowly, chrono’ing every shot, and watching closely for pressure signs in the rifle and the brass..

 

[CoElkHunter]

^^ this ^^

I’ve got barnes, Lyman, sierra, and hornady manuals that are all early editions as well as Waters Pet Loads… for my more traditional cartridges like 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, etc I don’t even bother opening a newer manual..

Doesn’t help me much for the 300 PRC or other newer generation stuff… I just use the new manuals to obtain starting points for those cartridges and build up slowly, chrono’ing every shot, and watching closely for pressure signs in the rifle and the brass..

I'm looking at my Sierra 1971 edition right now. Only goes up to 8mm Mauser. No .338, .375, .45-70. .458WM, etc., because Sierra didn't make bullets for those back then I'm assuming? Does have the "new" 6.5x300 Weatherby though. LOL

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hornady’s online manual is terrible. It must have been written by a bunch of lawyers. I keep half a dozen older manuals on hand and do a lot of cross referencing in load development.

+1

I have and use 4 reloading data manuals and use 3 other online reloading data manuals to determine a starting load.

It's mind bogling the differences in what each of the manuals considers minimal and maximum powder charge loads and the velocities expected. Which listed velocities are for the most part all above actual chronographed velocities. Thus the disclaimer: 'Actual results may vary'.

 

[gbflyer]

I think the pressure testing equipment is much more accurate and sophisticated today. That and yeah…liability. I’m surprised we can buy a single kernel of powder in today’s litigious society.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was just commenting on Hornady showing their minimum velocity for the WM 50fps FASTER than their minimum for the Lott and BOTH at 2150 for their maximum. That means Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen when using Hornady’s load data can get his .35 Whelen faster than a .358 Norma Magnum. I love revisionary ballistics! LOL

@CoElkHunter
If I used Hornady data for the Whelen I would be lucky if the bullet reached the 100 yards target the loads are piss poor compared to Speer, Sierra, Nosler and even Barnes .
That why I use different sources plus load from a disc to check.
Some of the Hornady loads are lucky to get 48,000 cup for the Whelen. I suppose because there's a lot of old rifles out there. They have to cover their arse from dickheads.
Bob