High Fenced Debate?

[Pheroze]

My father and I hunted a large property once. He wounded his animal and we found about 10 or 15 yards from the high fence. It turned and bolted and dad finished it but the animal collided with the fence after the shot. At that point there was something about the fence that bothered me. Maybe Code4 summed it up. Maybe it is my own thought that somehow we had cheated and real hunters don't do it this way. BTW I shot mine in an area where I could not see the fence so I had no qualms until that moment by the fence. The reality is that every property I hunt is farm land with some form of barrier. Its hard to describe but I would prefer to not see the fence as it turns out.

 

[BnC 04]

"The trophy is in the eye of the Beholder" I think this holds true with the highfence debate.

 

[joester]

I hunted on a high fenced property on my first trip to Africa, a Namibian ranch of about 16,000 acres. There were quite a few cheetahs on the property and they had adapted over time to use the fence as a means to chase and intercept their prey. IMO high fences are neccesary for game ranchers to keep their investment$ ( ie: trophy fee animals) inside and unwanted predators ( 2 or 4-legged) outside. They are, undeniably, an unnatural barrier. All of my subsequent hunts have been in unfenced or vastly high fenced ( eg Bubye & Save Valley conservancies). I fully support all hunters who hunt on high fenced ranches, its just not my plate of backstrap. It is an " emotional" ( psychological) issue for me, but I'm a psychologist, so that makes me a bit weird anyway! Happy hunting!

 

[enysse]

Most hunting properties, game can get through. If it's a breeding property...most likely no, but then again they are not using the property for hunting. The land that has rhinos on it usually has two fences....to keep them from being seen at the road.

 

[billc]

I think high fence is what you make of it.All the talk of the fence stops animals for going were they want is only half true.I have not hunted many animals that just run straight ahead when being hunted or even when tracked after being shot.
Must animals back track head off in a way to trick anything chasing them.I have taken animals were I could see the fence and no once did it stop the animal from trying to get away.
Animals that are born and raised on a fence place learn the land and know how to get away when needed.The fenced places have a place in the new hunting world and the less we talk bad about them the better as it just give the anti hunters something more to use to stop hunting.I think if it is not for you just dont go to a fenced place just pay the extra cash to hunt unfenced land and enjoy yourself. Just dont try and tell me I am less a hunter because I have hunted a fenced place.

 

[ActionBob]

I have not hunted a high fence property, yet. But I think billc hit the nail on the head.

 

[gordon little]

hunted 10 days on a fenced ranch in NE Namibia last month. Former cattle ranch, surrounded by existing cattle ranches. fence necessary to contain game brought on to the ranch when the cattle were removed. Makalaan Ranch is approximately 8 miles by 5 miles with no interior fences, very brushy and the fence did not "aid" our hunting nor limit the animals' abilities to elude us. absolutely fair chase track/spot/stalk hunting. the ranch has several types of plains game which would not/could not be there without the perimeter fence. there are several types of transitory animals (we saw their tracks) which the PH reported cross the ranch by going thru the fences.

 

[NitroX]

I've hunted on unfenced and also fenced properties. The best hunting has always easily been on free range unfenced properties. The fenced properties have included tame animals, animals being fed off the back of bakkies, animal bred in intensive pens and released at the beginning of the hunting season. Pretty easy to work out the difference. Really not interested in these non fair chase hunts at all.

On the other hand on one fenced property the few trophy animals left at the end of the hunting season were so wild they would run in a second and not stop running. So actually wilder. The difference was trying to get onto the only two trophy animals left on the high fenced property. Where there is free range there can be natural movement. I find it quite unattractive when the PH knows there is exactly one animal on the property to hunt of that particular species.

Secondly the ability of game to get over a normal cattle fence or a high fence one is also very dependent on pressure. Most game will try to go under and do so quite successfully. But most can if pushed jumped or bounce off even an eight foot fence. Maybe some guys will get upset by the comparison? But if African antelopes can't jump a cattle fence they are pussies compared to most deer species. I have fallow deer and a wild buck jumped the seven to eight foot fences to get in with the girls. If put under pressure, he just jumped in and out as he felt like it. I had a captive bred buck that could do the same from a squat. Most animals do not realise what they are capable of. I have also seen red deer and chital easily clear high fences. Wapiti could probably step over ...

Now I have seen a gemsbok that was too dumb to jump a cattle fence his mate had easily cleared a minute before. But I have seen a whole bunch of eland easily sail over very high fences.

Really it is a matter of the animal and what it thinks it can do, what it is familiar with and how much pressure it is under.

 

[billc]

That is the difference between high fence places nitroX and you made a great point.High fence places that are stocked for the season is not the same as animals breeding and living there for years.The places I have hunted had more females there for breeding and self stocking of the ranch for years ahead then males.The animals grew up and traveled all over the ranch for years.Now there could be animals added ever few years to add to the gene pool but most animals were born from the females living there.
I think maybe what some must learn and ask about is if it is a stocked put and take place or one that the animals breeding replace the animals hunted each year.
With the prices I see some animals are going for at the game auctions the put and take will get very expense and you will tell just by the prices those places must charge.I would not want to hunt a put and take place but will not bad mouth someone who does.Again the only thing it does is hurt all hunting if you do.
The money in that part of the hunting business is so big it will not go away.We must learn to deal with it or just hurt ourselves in the long term.

 

[Velo Dog]

That is the difference between high fence places nitroX and you made a great point.High fence places that are stocked for the season is not the same as animals breeding and living there for years.The places I have hunted had more females there for breeding and self stocking of the ranch for years ahead then males.The animals grew up and traveled all over the ranch for years.Now there could be animals added ever few years to add to the gene pool but most animals were born from the females living there.
I think maybe what some must learn and ask about is if it is a stocked put and take place or one that the animals breeding replace the animals hunted each year.
With the prices I see some animals are going for at the game auctions the put and take will get very expense and you will tell just by the prices those places must charge.I would not want to hunt a put and take place but will not bad mouth someone who does.Again the only thing it does is hurt all hunting if you do.
The money in that part of the hunting business is so big it will not go away.We must learn to deal with it or just hurt ourselves in the long term.

1. I am +1 with billc on this subject, in that if someone is happy hunting the "put and take" type farms on small fenced concessions, far be it from me to say that is bad for some reason.

Definitely not my thing but, for those who like it, I say go for what you like / life is short, may as well enjoy the things that make you happy, as long as it does not trample the innocent.

At least hunting inside a small area with a high fence surely beats buying meat in the store, IMO.

Here in Alaska, we often hunt blacktail deer on various coastal islands, some islands are large and some small.

The deer can swim off an island but usually avoid the cold sea water here as much as possible.

I see no difference in that and fenced hunting concessions that are self sustaining of animals.

2. Although it is very difficult for me personally to understand NitroX's position on any subject, while he is aiming a .450 No2 at my face, I can in spite of that distraction, see his point to a certain degree on following;

IE: Small put and take farms do not appeal to me either.

Parting Shot:
Having hunted on fenced and unfenced concessions both, I personally do not care which one of those two it is for my future adventures, as long as they are on the same huge and self sustaining properties I have hunted in the past or new ones that are also large enough to be self sustaining of the game populations.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[woods1126]

I have accompanied a couple friends on thier " high fence" whitetail deer hunts in PA. and NY. These were on properties of 150 acres and 300 acres. The deer were not tame acting but they were not wild acting by any means. I realize these are very, small operations. I have hunted whitetails all my adult life in Upstate NY. When it comes to hunting behind the fence anywhere in North America, I truly believe this is in no comparison to hunting high fence in Africa. I hunted in the Eastern Cape last year, and it was hunting Period! The areas were much, much greater in size and the properties were not "put and take". I was told there weren't any animals introduced to the areas for over ten years. The only hunting in North America that is conducted behind high fence that is close to Africa, are the very large ranches in Texas in my opinon.

Either way, I will never convict anyone's desires to hunt behind high ,low or no fence. This is EXACTLY what the antis want, to divide us hunters. Kevin

 

[spike.t]

we havent put any animals on since we stocked Takeri 8/9 years ago and let them get on with it. we however will bring in new animals for different genetics with the species we didnt put many on in the 1st place when needed, and there are certain other indigenous species that we are looking to establish small breeding herds of in the future. we have animals go through the fence if they are inclined to, but try and get them back in if possible so they dont get nailed by poachers, and have had kudu appear on a couple of occasions which we never put on. we are starting to see smaller species reappearing as i presume they are finding it safer and less disturbance on our side of the fence .............

 

[ActionBob]

Mike, what size is your fenced proprty?

 

[spike.t]

Mike, what size is your fenced proprty?

AB its approx 8000.00 acres or 3300.00 hectares. click on the website if you havent before and it gives you the info and zoom in map location to play with

 

[NitroX]

2. Although it is very difficult for me personally to understand NitroX's position on any subject, while he is aiming a .450 No2 at my face, I can in spite of that distraction, see his point to a certain degree on following;

Most people thankfully understand they are looking at a computer monitor ....

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen, but as far as I understand, the "high" fence in places like Texas is 10ft, where the "high" fence in Africa is 7ft. Apples need to be compared with apples.

....and Springbuck, Bushbuck, Gemsbuck crawl under the fence. They don't jump it.

 

[NitroX]

Marius. most species of deer will go under a fence as well. 7 feet is fine for keeping most critters in.

I do have some trouble believing a cyclone or wire fence will keep poachers out ...

 

[Sable123]

Whether your property is large or small, high fenced or free range then it is your responsibility to manage it accordingly and correctly.
Our farm is fairly large, for our area, but under the circumstances we have had to high fence it which means we must therefore take the responsibility of managing our game species ethically. We do not pressure hunt animals, drive them with beaters or chase them with dogs, we do not hunt over waterholes or bait them with food and it is strictly bow hunting walk and stalk. Its not that I am against those forms of hunting its simply a case of it not being functional for our farm. We manage our ecosystem accordingly and will only supplement feed in drier seasons or cull/sell excess animals. We have trail cameras along our fence lines to monitor for poachers, dogs, game movements etc...and are noticing that more "free range" (i.e. animals we have not introduced onto the farm) animals are entering our property than leaving and we put this down to good management. Yes we could easily pile the farm full of expensive game and use the put and take system but that is not in our nature and we do what we do because we have a love and appreciation of nature not the greed to make a fortune from it.
It should also be added that since erecting our high fence the bushbuck population has increased 10 fold, they have free access to cross our fence lines as they please.

 

[spike.t]

Marius. most species of deer will go under a fence as well. 7 feet is fine for keeping most critters in.

I do have some trouble believing a cyclone or wire fence will keep poachers out ...

fences dont keep poachers out. we do have guard dogs in the river part of our boundary and have heard of at least one "fisherman" !!!! who was a suspected poacher who got taken in the river in the middle of the night by one of the guard flatdogs...............zambian game ranches/reserves especially near populated areas have a big meat poaching problem way worse i am led to believe than similar places in namibia, botswana or SA.

 

[BRICKBURN]

That fence guarantee's that they (and you) know they are trespassing and poaching.
Not much doubt when they climb a 7 foot fence.