Heym or Dakota?

[The Engineer]

In my original reply I neglected to mention that my Heym 416 Rigby has a MUCH larger diameter bolt and wider magazine than my Dakota rifles. There is also less diametrical clearance on the Heym bolt vs. the Dakota. This helps explain why the Heym action cycles so smoothly with this large cartridge.

I had a CZ 416 Rigby for a while. I would put the fit and finish in the class of a current model 70 or 700. Nothing wrong with that but as you try to "slick up" a mass production action you almost always remove some metal which make the action slicker but looser than it was. I have even seen bolt faces chrome plated to tighten up the headspace. Some fine custom rifles are made from these actions but my experience is they will never be a slick operating as an action that was originally manufacture to tighter tolerance.

 

[The_red_Boe]

All of these are good points to consider, I think I am swayed to the Heym side. Considering that after I get proficient with the rifle, I plan on Alaskan brown bear to be the first hunt with it. And again probably not even until 2024.

I know there have been a lot of good comments on going the Rigby route, and for .275 Rigby gladly. For the big game route, why go a 416 Rigby big game when you get the same action for a little less in M98? The Heym to me was more appealing them the Rigby because I have had inconsistent quotes on Rigby's ranging from $14k to $20k. When I inquired of Heym, Chris Sells gave me one no nonsense quote. No "dealership mark ups". I appreciate that. I have no doubts about the quality or history of Rigby. Or for Heym. The history matters a little less to me, James Patterson killed the man-eaters of Tsavo with a .303 Enfield and a Henry-martini. Jim Corbbit had a Westley Richard's as well as a Rigby when he killed the man-eaters of Kumoan. So long as the rifle doesn't fail, it's all about the meddle of the hunter. So one quality rifle, and enough practice not to get myself or my PH killed or maimed when things go side ways is the goal.

That's my 2 pence, and I expect I'll get change back for it.

 

[Dirtdart]

In case anyone is interested there is a used Heym Martini in .416 Rigby listed on Gunbroker with a stating bid of $6700. I have no dog in the fight but it would be worth a look for someone in the market.

 

[TOBY458]

Two objective criteria

Unless I am dreadfully wrong, the Dakota uses a Win 70 clone action. What this means is that it is a .375 H&H length action with the feeding ramp shortened and steepened to accept the .416 Rigby longer cartridge. This is less than optimum.

Also, the magazine width of the Dakota 76 is designed for the .375 H&H family of cartridges. Fitting the much wider .416 Rigby shell in it is possible, and modifying the feeding rails geometry for it is possible, with good results, but this too is less than optimum.

Therefore, as a first objective criterion, I would suggest selecting a .416 Rigby-sized action & magazine well for a .416 Rigby. This essentially takes out the Dakota.

Further, although it is well mannered in a decent weight rifle (e.g. 10 lbs.), the .416 Rigby already has significant recoil. Even more, if loaded hot toward .416 Wby performance. Screwed-on scope bases are an objective weak link.

Therefore, as a second objective criterion, I would suggest an action with integral scope bases built into a double square bridge. This too essentially takes out the Dakota.

PS: it is worth noting that Dakota offer their factory rifle in .416 Rem (necked up .375 H&H shell loaded to higher pressure to match the Rigby ballistics), but NOT in .416 Rigby. I suspect that the two above points have some bearing on this corporate decision...

Subjective criteria

Aside from the CZ action, which is in a different lower world as a raw product, the two most commonly available .416 Rigby-sized actions are the post-2015 Mauser M98 Magnum and the Heym Express actions. Other custom options exist: Granite Mountain, Mayfair, Prechtl, etc.

Both Mauser and Rigby rifles are based on Mauser barreled actions, so I would say that the pick between a Mauser branded rifle and a Rigby branded rifle is a matter of personal preferences as regard brand, style, finish, etc.

As to which of the Mauser/Rigby or Heym barreled action to prefer, by all reports they are both outstanding...

So, it truly becomes a matter of personal choice. Mauser has its following; so does of course Rigby; and the Heym Martini is built to replicate them.

I too would likely go Rigby, with Mauser in second place, and Heym in third, all for totally subjective romantic reasons...

I would not even consider a Dakota owing to the two objective criteria discussed above.

I imagine this is why Dakota was pushing the 400 H&H awhile back. 416 Rigby ballistics in the smaller case, without having to put 416 Rem Mag on the barrel.

 

[BeeMaa]

I imagine this is why Dakota was pushing the 400 H&H awhile back. 416 Rigby ballistics in the smaller case, without having to put 416 Rem Mag on the barrel.

So as a dig at their current ownership they were trying to avoid having Remington on the barrel?
I guess you get your punches in where you can.

 

[Fastrig]

Two objective criteria

Unless I am dreadfully wrong, the Dakota uses a Win 70 clone action. What this means is that it is a .375 H&H length action with the feeding ramp shortened and steepened to accept the .416 Rigby longer cartridge. This is less than optimum.

Also, the magazine width of the Dakota 76 is designed for the .375 H&H family of cartridges. Fitting the much wider .416 Rigby shell in it is possible, and modifying the feeding rails geometry for it is possible, with good results, but this too is less than optimum.

Therefore, as a first objective criterion, I would suggest selecting a .416 Rigby-sized action & magazine well for a .416 Rigby. This essentially takes out the Dakota.

Further, although it is well mannered in a decent weight rifle (e.g. 10 lbs.), the .416 Rigby already has significant recoil. Even more, if loaded hot toward .416 Wby performance. Screwed-on scope bases are an objective weak link.

Therefore, as a second objective criterion, I would suggest an action with integral scope bases built into a double square bridge. This too essentially takes out the Dakota.

PS: it is worth noting that Dakota offer their factory rifle in .416 Rem (necked up .375 H&H shell loaded to higher pressure to match the Rigby ballistics), but NOT in .416 Rigby. I suspect that the two above points have some bearing on this corporate decision...

Subjective criteria

Aside from the CZ action, which is in a different lower world as a raw product, the two most commonly available .416 Rigby-sized actions are the post-2015 Mauser M98 Magnum and the Heym Express actions. Other custom options exist: Granite Mountain, Mayfair, Prechtl, etc.

Both Mauser and Rigby rifles are based on Mauser barreled actions, so I would say that the pick between a Mauser branded rifle and a Rigby branded rifle is a matter of personal preferences as regard brand, style, finish, etc.

As to which of the Mauser/Rigby or Heym barreled action to prefer, by all reports they are both outstanding...

So, it truly becomes a matter of personal choice. Mauser has its following; so does of course Rigby; and the Heym Martini is built to replicate them.

I too would likely go Rigby, with Mauser in second place, and Heym in third, all for totally subjective romantic reasons...

I would not even consider a Dakota owing to the two objective criteria discussed above.

I believe the Dakota’s were originally focussed more the 404 Jeffery cartridge than the 375 H&H. That may have changed over the years, but remember reading that somewhere along the way in researching the 404 Jeff.

 

[Fastrig]

So as a dig at their current ownership they were trying to avoid having Remington on the barrel?
I guess you get your punches in where you can.

Isn’t a 416 Rem Mag basically a necked up 375 H&H case to accept a 416 bullet?

 

[TOBY458]

So as a dig at their current ownership they were trying to avoid having Remington on the barrel?
I guess you get your punches in where you can.

Not sure Remington owned them when they were pushing the 400 H&H? As a proponent of the 416 Rem Mag myself, I see no reason for the 400 H&H. With less case capacity, and the less popular .410 bullets, I see no advantages at all.

 

[BeeMaa]

Isn’t a 416 Rem Mag basically a necked up 375 H&H case to accept a 416 bullet?

Technically the 416RM is based on the 8mmRM.
Which is based on the 375H&H, so it's in the family so to speak.

 

[Fastrig]

Not sure Remington owned them when they were pushing the 400 H&H? As a proponent of the 416 Rem Mag myself, I see no reason for the 400 H&H. With less case capacity, and the less popular .410 bullets, I see no advantages at all.

Looked at a 400 H&H and couldn’t see any advantage in it either, outside of matching it with a 300 H&H in the Dakota Traveler. Did find a really good deal on a Dakota Traveler in 7mm Dakota and 375 Dakota but the cost and limited availability of ammo made me walk. Also don’t see the advantage of the 416 Rigby over the 416 RM. Outside of nostalgic factor, the Rigby doesn’t really do anything the 416 RM can’t do or exceed and it costs more to feed. My new 416 RM is my first big bore, did a lot of reading about the various options in this class, and can’t really see where any of the other options offer any more than 416 RM provides, plus it’s inexpensive to shoot compared to most of the others. Probably wouldn’t have bought it though as I don’t really “need” a big bore, but got such a good deal by including it in a four gun package I recently posted about that I couldn’t pass It up.

 

[Art Lambart II]

If your willing to pay the price for a Heym why not consider a R8?