Help me with caliber choice for Dangerous Game

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

if it all personal preferences then here is mine
I know you didn't mention it and its often overlooked
416 rem mag, why??? much less recoil than 458 and 416 rigby, actually a pleasure to shoot
put a reflex (red dot sight) on and you have a real easy shooting excellent big game gun
quick shooting, easy to get ammo or reload, and it has all the power needed for ele, buff, or whatever you put in front of it

other option is stick with the .375 h+h it does it all, load a good solid and you are set for ele

kind regards

 

[matt85]

I like the idea of buying a double and not spending anymore on other rifles. But then I am restricting myself to distances somewhat and like mentioned it might prolong my time to hunting Africa.

im not sure why people keep saying the 450 NE will shorten your range... how far do you plan on shooting? if you decide a double isn't for you then that's fine but don't misunderstand double rifles! A 450 NE double will kill a buffalo at 150 yards without fail assuming you do your part, but you shouldn't be a shooting a buffalo at 150 yards. hunting dangerous game is not a long distance affair and is typically done under 100 yards. on my buffalo hunt i shot the animal at around 60 yards which is probably a fairly average shot distance given the terrain these animals spend their time in.

if your going to pass on a double then be sure your doing it for the right reasons. the downsides to the double are: cost of the gun, ammunition availability, cost of ammunition, and they tend to be difficult to hand load for. double rifles tend to be limited to using bullets similar to the bullets they are regulated for. this means you cant have the gun regulated for Hornady ammunition and expect it to easily shoot Barnes bullets. shooting a double rifle is both a challenging and rewarding experience which is unique and cannot be compared to bolt action or single shot rifles.

-matt

 

[Shootist43]

375 Ruger Fan, are the Winchester Mod. 70 300 RUM CRFs or Pushers?

 

[Red Leg]

I have shot double shotguns for nearly fifty years and double rifles for about twenty - other than double trigger familiarity, less transfers over than you might imagine - particularly when making that all important first shot. I'll be the contrarian here, but I strongly believe our primary responsibility on a dangerous game hunt is to put the all important first shot exactly where it needs to be. Do that, and no bad things follow. Screw that up and someone has a chance of getting hurt or worse. And because the tracker and PH will be doing everything in their power to make sure that person isn't the client, it will likely be one of them. Most hunters can't do that really well with a double rifle and open sights - particularly on their first buffalo - some obviously can and have - but most can't. I expect that .375 of yours is a MOA rifle - it is after all a Sako. I suspect you are fairly comfortable using it. I strongly suggest you put quality scope on it, go shoot a buffalo where it really matters, and then decide what sort of future rifle investment is correct based on your experience with DG. And I should note that I own a .404 and .500/.416 to go along with my .375's.

A final note. With open sights you inevitably are also limiting your opportunity window. Of the three bulls I have taken, only one shot would I have attempted with open sights - and I grew up using open sights. And this was not because of range, but because of intervening brush through which I needed to precisely thread a bullet. In all cases we were "properly close" whatever that is supposed to imply.

Tune up that Sako, put that 4k toward your hunt, and go cleanly kill a buffalo.

 

[flat8]

@Shootist43 It's a "Classic" - so it's CRF. You can also see the black claw extractor in the pics below.

 

[Opposite Pole]

I suggest a double with big holes in the barrels, paired up with 375 you’ll have two great guns. There’s not that much of a difference between 375 and the smaller large bores in terms of on game performance so while you’re not duplicating your 375 with 404 you’re not exactly getting whole new experience either - you’ll have two somewhat similar rifles. Having a double and a bolt action on a safari gives you the option of trying to stalk close in for the shot with a double but should that prove not possible you can grab scoped bolt action and extend your range a bit which opens more opportunities. Most guides warn you that open sighted double can limit your opportunities a bit, but in my (limited) experience it’s much more memorable and certainly worth it.

 

[Opposite Pole]

the downsides to the double are: cost of the gun, ammunition availability, cost of ammunition, and they tend to be difficult to hand load for.

They are also somewhat addictive so be careful there

 

[Shootist43]

Flat 8, thanks for clearing that up. Almost all of my Mod 70s were built in the 70s or maybe early 80s. They are all Pushers. I have two pre 64s that are CRF. In the future whenever I see a reference to a Winchester Mod. 70 Classic I will know that it is CRF. You learn something new every day. Thanks

 

[CTDolan]

I have shot double shotguns for nearly fifty years and double rifles for about twenty - other than double trigger familiarity, less transfers over than you might imagine - particularly when making that all important first shot. I'll be the contrarian here, but I strongly believe our primary responsibility on a dangerous game hunt is to put the all important first shot exactly where it needs to be. Do that, and no bad things follow. Screw that up and someone has a chance of getting hurt or worse. And because the tracker and PH will be doing everything in their power to make sure that person isn't the client, it will likely be one of them. Most hunters can't do that really well with a double rifle and open sights - particularly on their first buffalo - some obviously can and have - but most can't. I expect that .375 of yours is a MOA rifle - it is after all a Sako. I suspect you are fairly comfortable using it. I strongly suggest you put quality scope on it, go shoot a buffalo where it really matters, and then decide what sort of future rifle investment is correct based on your experience with DG. And I should note that I own a .404 and .500/.416 to go along with my .375's.

A final note. With open sights you inevitably are also limiting your opportunity window. Of the three bulls I have taken, only one shot would I have attempted with open sights - and I grew up using open sights. And this was not because of range, but because of intervening brush through which I needed to precisely thread a bullet. In all cases we were "properly close" whatever that is supposed to imply.

Tune up that Sako, put that 4k toward your hunt, and go cleanly kill a buffalo.

The best advice is to be found right here. No need to read any further.

 

[Rob404]

The 375 can be loaded down to 250 or lower, I got at touch over 2800fps with my old Zastava so plains game is covered, A 404Jeff will Knock down a B-52 which is why it would be my choice for Buff

 

[cagkt3]

Let me settle this whole debate about which rifle. The answer is yes.

(For future reference guys, the correct answer is always yes any time the question involves purchasing a new rifle)

 

[Pheroze]

Let me settle this whole debate about which rifle. The answer is yes.

(For future reference guys, the correct answer is always yes any time the question involves purchasing a new rifle)

+1

I will try not to sound harsh, but it causes me considerable grief when I read threads like this. All this man wanted was enough support so he could justify a new firearm despite the house expense! And, yet so many abandon a brother in his time of need..."just stick with the one you have"...seriously? If he wanted to hear that he would have asked his spouse or accountant, and stayed away from this forum. Smarten up people, yeesh!

 

[Adam Stevens]

I like where the direction of this thread headed hahahah

Must of subconsciously been looking for approval to buy a new gun and didn't even know it!! LoL

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

375 Ruger Fan, are the Winchester Mod. 70 300 RUM CRFs or Pushers?

Yes, they are CRF.

+1

I will try not to sound harsh, but it causes me considerable grief when I read threads like this. All this man wanted was enough support so he could justify a new firearm despite the house expense! And, yet so many abandon a brother in his time of need..."just stick with the one you have"...seriously? If he wanted to hear that he would have asked his spouse or accountant, and stayed away from this forum. Smarten up people, yeesh!

I think I am sensing you would like have a 4th choice in the poll, "All of the above".

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have shot double shotguns for nearly fifty years and double rifles for about twenty - other than double trigger familiarity, less transfers over than you might imagine - particularly when making that all important first shot. I'll be the contrarian here, but I strongly believe our primary responsibility on a dangerous game hunt is to put the all important first shot exactly where it needs to be. Do that, and no bad things follow. Screw that up and someone has a chance of getting hurt or worse. And because the tracker and PH will be doing everything in their power to make sure that person isn't the client, it will likely be one of them. Most hunters can't do that really well with a double rifle and open sights - particularly on their first buffalo - some obviously can and have - but most can't. I expect that .375 of yours is a MOA rifle - it is after all a Sako. I suspect you are fairly comfortable using it. I strongly suggest you put quality scope on it, go shoot a buffalo where it really matters, and then decide what sort of future rifle investment is correct based on your experience with DG. And I should note that I own a .404 and .500/.416 to go along with my .375's.

A final note. With open sights you inevitably are also limiting your opportunity window. Of the three bulls I have taken, only one shot would I have attempted with open sights - and I grew up using open sights. And this was not because of range, but because of intervening brush through which I needed to precisely thread a bullet. In all cases we were "properly close" whatever that is supposed to imply.

Tune up that Sako, put that 4k toward your hunt, and go cleanly kill a buffalo.

Red Leg..........well said and I agree totally. About a year ago, I was considering a DR in 450/400. I talked with a PH I had hunted with, John Sharp (who carries a Rigby double in 470 NE), and he advised staying with a good bolt action rifle for the same reasons you stated. Best chance at a good first shot and familiarity with bolt actions. John advised that if a client does go with a double, make sure it is properly fitted to them and then practice, practice, practice.

 

[TOBY458]

Here's what I suggest.
Keep the 375.
Buy a 404 bolt rifle.
Buy a 450 Double.
Buy a 416 Ruger.
Buy a 416 Rigby.
Buy a 416 Rem mag.
Buy another 375. Ruger or H&H
Buy a 458 Lott
Buy a 500 Double
Buy a 500 Jeff Bolt Rifle.

Then stare at the safe and wonder which gun to take when you can finally afford to go to Africa.

 

[Philip Glass]

I think it depends on how much you have dreamed of a double and how much time you are going to put into getting really good with it. I think the PH's on here are concerned about clients coming in with a double and not being proficient with it. Your .375 will do everything but elephant really so if you want the double you must get it now and start using it.
Best of luck and thanks for sharing your dream hunt ideas with us!
Philip

 

[Red Leg]

I think it depends on how much you have dreamed of a double and how much time you are going to put into getting really good with it. I think the PH's on here are concerned about clients coming in with a double and not being proficient with it. Your .375 will do everything but elephant really so if you want the double you must get it now and start using it.
Best of luck and thanks for sharing your dream hunt ideas with us!
Philip

There have been a whole lot of elephant cleanly taken with .375 solids. A whole lot more will be cleanly taken in the future. Jamy Traut's and Grant Taylor's camp rifles, which are regularly used on elephant by clients, are .375's. I have other options, but were I leaving tomorrow for a tusker, I probably would be taking my R8 with 300gr .375 Woodleigh Hydros. The .400's are obviously great elephant rounds. But 300 grs in the brain is just as lethal as 400 grs - and the .375 drives very, very deep.

And I certainly agree if the OP is committed to a double, then that commitment needs be accompanied by a total commitment to learning to use it effectively.

 

[cpr0312]

(For future reference guys, the correct answer is always yes any time the question involves purchasing a new rifle)

 

[Opposite Pole]

I'm veering off topic a bit but I’m just curious, it is frequently emphasised to practise a lot with a double to be proficient with it, and while I agree one should practise (and a lot) I fail to see how a double differs from any other type of a gun in that department. I don’t think shooting a double is harder that shooting a bolt action of similar power. Is the apparent difficulty in shooting the gun open sighted? Because if it is causing one grief it’s possible to scope a double or put a red dot type device on it. I’ve seen one on Ivan Carter’s double so no shame in it and anyhow that’s no different from shooting bolt action with irons. If recoil is an issue it will be so on any other action with similarly powered cartridge too. One difference is two triggers versus one though there are single triggered doubles too but while it takes practise to get used to the second trigger so it becomes instinctive it’s not really that dramatic. I suppose living in Europe I see a lot of people hunting with doubles and combination guns, scoped and iron sighted both SxS and O/U in small and medium bores and can’t see that these guns are any harder to shoot than other action types. And while doubles are no 1000m guns any decent one is plenty accurate for hunting at normal ranges.