Help me figure out a rifle

[akrifleman]

Last year an African property owner took us to his ultra fancy range. He let me shoot his ultra fancy 300 PRC. The TV monitor showed I hit the target about 3" left of the bull ... at 1,000 meters. Interesting. But one shot was enough. Never in my life would I shoot at a big game animal that far away. Not even if I could find a duplicate rifle and scope. Hunting skill is getting close, not lobbing bullets long distance.

I understand the sentiment, but that is a gross oversimplification. Shooting at distance is a skill that requires just as much invested time as having bush skills. Most hunters I know could easily stand to practice distance shooting far more. Perhaps a good balancing of shooting ability, hunting ability, and understanding Time Of Flight would go much further. I believe it was Erik Cortina on a podcast that mentioned the more he shoots at very long range as a champ, the more he realizes what can go wrong the further out you go. While he is a 1000 yd champ, he knows that even at 600 yds, sometimes the wind just throws you off, and you are left searching for an answer.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Gross oversimplification. Shooting at distance is a skill that requires just as much invested time as having bush skills. Most hunters I know could easily stand to practice distance shooting far more. Perhaps a good balancing of shooting ability, hunting ability, and understanding Time Of Flight would go much further. I believe it was Erik Cortina on a podcast that mentioned the more he shoots at very long range as a champ, the more he realizes what can go wrong the further out you go. While he is a 1000 yd champ, he knows that even at 600 yds, sometimes the wind just throws you off, and you are left searching for an answer.

I think you're confusing hunting with killing. There is a difference. What element of "chase" is involved in killing something obliviously chewing on a bush 800 yards away?

 

[akrifleman]

I think you're confusing hunting with killing. There is a difference.

No, just seen many a miss at close range, because the guy only shot a box once a year.

 

[akrifleman]

I think you're confusing hunting with killing. There is a difference. What element of "chase" is involved in killing something obliviously chewing on a bush 800 yards away?

I consider "fair chase" open and in the wild. I think we all prefer to take shots at game that is oblivous and unalerted, no matter the distance. Be that a stalk to 70 yds or 700 yds.

Why be threatened by someones shooting ability? They are not threatened by your stalking ability. I don't get the resentments. They both take a ton of time to achieve.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

No, just seen many a miss at close range, because the guy only shot a box once a year.

I never shoot a box a year and never have. Not out of my rifle anyway. But I can shoot running animals dead at less than a hundred yards. Do it all the time, almost yearly now. Killed this coyote last year standing offhand at about that range ... in a stiff headwind. One shot. The difference is I have been in the field for sixty years ... with the same gun. Range time is no substitute for field experience.

And this nyala two months earlier shot through the heart running at 100 yards.

 

[ve7poi]

Just back from Namibia used an original 1948 270win model 70 with 140 gr Barnes tsx hand loads at 2950fps, 17 trophies ranging from Steenbuck to eland shot placement is a bit more demanding. light recoil let me see where I hit

 

[BeeMaa]

I owned only a 7x57 for big game for 20+ years. It never let me down. I shot a number of elk with it but I did not stretch the range on elk.

If I were buying one rifle today for NA and Africa PG, and recoil were a concern, I would seriously consider a little more long range punch with a .325 WSM or 8x68.

OP has a bum shoulder, so the 8mm's might be off the table.

If it were me, I'd go with a 30-06 for the sake of ammo availability both in the US and Africa. Not to mention that you can buy reduced recoil loads for it. If you hand load, obviously you can do this as well.

Find a rifle you like and you can pick from bullet weight ranging from 125 grains up to 220, all in factory offerings. Certainly should find a sub-MOA load with those kind of options.

Second choice would be a 270WIN, as mentioned by others. Same reasons...ammo availability and bullet weight options.

 

[hseII]

I suspect there's quite a few on here who don't understand sweat spots. I spent six years working in an aluminum plant and many seasons fighting wildfire. I know something about sweat spots.

I tried to change it but no luck.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I tried to change it but no luck.

Yeah, you gotta be quick!

 

[hseII]

I think you're confusing hunting with killing. There is a difference. What element of "chase" is involved in killing something obliviously chewing on a bush 800 yards away?

The preparation time & due diligence required to consistently hit a target at 600-1000 yards is exceedingly more time than a repeatable impact on a 200 yard target.

Most long range hunters are also Reloaders because consistency is a must.

a 2” grouping at 100 yards is 4” at 200 yards & 8” at 400 yards.

Long distance hunting may not be your idea of hunting, but make no mistake, there’s a lot of time & skill involved with successfully harvesting game beyond what you obviously consider your limit.

 

[tward1604]

Soooo that 7x57 is pretty versatile especially for someone inclined to reload. Another thing in the wind here is the extra weight of the longer action for the 7 mag vs the 7x57 but we're splitting hairs here.

 

[7mmFan]

7mm mag for the win!

 

[shootist~]

280 or 280 AI over the 7Mag for lower recoil (weight of the powder charge makes a noticable difference).

But you do realize that everyone needs at least one good 30-06, don't you?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The preparation time & due diligence required to consistently hit a target at 600-1000 yards is exceedingly more time than a repeatable impact on a 200 yard target.

Most long range hunters are also Reloaders because consistency is a must.

a 2” grouping at 100 yards is 4” at 200 yards & 8” at 400 yards.

Long distance hunting may not be your idea of hunting, but make no mistake, there’s a lot of time & skill involved with successfully harvesting game beyond what you obviously consider your limit.

Shooting skill is not necessarily hunting skill ... unless you conclude a dead animal is the only object to hunting. Not for me. So ... how much "chasing" is involved in "fair chase" shooting an elk or kudu 800 yards away? I once tracked a bull moose to its bed in tag alders so thick I couldn't see the cow standing ahead of him. Shot him through the heart at less than twenty yards. I have been so close to a herd of elk I could see eyelashes! Tracked a moose to a chokechery grove and waited till it walked by so close I could almost read the blue lettering on the Minnesota game dept tag hanging on her right ear. She never knew I was there. That is hunting skill. My skill. Not my equipment's skill. Doesn't get any fairer chase than that. Does it make me a more accomplished "hunter" than the guy who takes pot shots at animals 700 yards away? I guess you know my thoughts on that.

 

[Rob404]

300Win Mag.

 

[ve7poi]

Another round I like is the 7x57 Ackley it handles 175 gr bullets a little faster but need to be a reloader for that one brass is easy enough to get and in a pinch can just use factory ammo but for shear versatility 30-06 is hard to beat

 

[Buck0317]

280 or 280 AI over the 7Mag for lower recoil (weight of the powder charge makes a noticable difference).

But you do realize that everyone needs at least one good 30-06, don't you?

Shootist,

I'm standing right beside you on this one. I discovered the 280 remington when I was 15 (33 years ago) and hunted with it with factory ammo for years. Now that I reload it made it even better! I have hunting buddies that shoot various 7mm and 300 magnums and my trophies are just as big as their trophies but with a lot less recoil and muzzle blast. When loaded properly, there isn't much one could not do with a 280 or 280AI when it comes to plains game.

 

[Tanks]

Shooting skill is not necessarily hunting skill ... unless you conclude a dead animal is the only object to hunting. Not for me. So ... how much "chasing" is involved in "fair chase" shooting an elk or kudu 800 yards away? ...

I'll give you the elk in the States. How much "fair chase" is involved at a fenced game farm at RSA where one is guided by a PH and tracker(s)?

Also, the shot depends on the terrain. Below is a picture of my free range red stag at Argentina where we stalked 800 meters crouched down and another 50 meters of crawling. The shot was still over 400 meters. As you can see from the background it was really flat (also got wet after as the guide forgot where he had parked the truck as we had walked so much). It was a "fair chase" hunt as it was not a high fence area and took a fair amount of physical effort. That being said it was still a guided hunt not like an elk hunt where the hunter himself is the one that is bugling, tracking etc.. BTW, this was not a shot I could have made or even taken with a loaner rifle. Taking my R8 in .300RUM with a Swarovski Z6i 2.5-15 BT scope was the right decision, I dialed in the distance on the ballistic turret and took the shot.

As far as the OP is concerned, I'd recommend whichever cartridge is best for his shoulder. Also, one other thing is that he could add a mercury recoil dampener on the buttstock of whichever firearm he chooses.

 

[Swampbilly1231]

I suspect there is a silent majority on this forum that really thinks you should buy both. ;-)

Hahahah I would love to but I’m not sure my funds will allow that right now maybe I’ll start with one and collect the others in years to come

 

[Berettaco]

As recoil is one of your main considerations, here’s some data I pulled a while back comparing rifle cartridges. There are multiple opinions on energy requirements for bullet expansion and penetration - I used 1,300 ft lbs for this. For most hunting scenarios of shots under 400 yards all of these will get it done - find the rifle that fits you the best and is in the budget - that’s an entirely different argument with plenty of opinions

7x57. 12 lbs of recoil with 139 grain bullet. 1774 ft lbs at 200 yards.
Max effective range 400 yards - 1314 ft/lbs energy.

7mm-08. 13lbs recoil with 139 grain bullet. 2042 ft lbs at 200 yards.
Max effective range 500 yards with 1311 Ft/lbs energy

6.5CM. 13 lbs recoil with 140 grain bullet. 1773 ft lbs at 200 yards. Max effective range 400 yards - 1379 ft/lbs energy

308 Win. 16 lbs recoil with 150 grain bullet. 2176 ft/lbs at 200.
Max effective range >400 (1543 ft/lbs at 400 drops to 1287 at 500).

.270 win. 17 lbs recoil with 140 grain bullet. 2042 Ft/lbs energy at 200 yards.
Max effective range 500 yards - 1310 ft/lbs energy

280 Rem. 17 lbs recoil with 139 grain bullet. 2250 ft lbs at 200 yards. Max effective range >500 - (1459 ft/lbs @500)