Heavy recoiling rifles and optic durability?

[TennesseeHunter]

Howdy,

Sorry if this becomes a rant. I’m long winded.

Recently I’ve problems with scope mounts not holding up. I wanted to ask if anyone else has had problems of their own like this.

I’ve only had these problems on my 460 weatherby. One with the porting and not with the muzzle brakes they put on them now. Which I do shoot this more than every other medium or big bore rifle I have combined, to be frank.

Scope is a Swarovski z5i 2.4-12x50 and the first mounts I had were the standard leupold mounts which the windage screw thing on the back. I noticed this rear ring had started sliding forward and the ring was like trying to go through the screw that holds it on. I should have a picture but I haven’t tried posting pictures here yet.
To be fair I think their dual dovetail rings would hold up but I’m not a fan of those.

Replaced those with a Murphy Precision rail and badger ordnance rings. Toughest combo I could think of. One dozen rounds later and all 4 rail screws shear and the scope still attached to the rail flys off I think breaking some air speed record and really did a number to my forehead
New screws with clean and dry threads installed using a torque wrench.

One guy I know said he’s seen it happen with some bolt action 600 nitro single shot.

I went and drilled the screw holes out for 8-40, fit four 1/8” 4140 pins in the rail to action, and loctited everything.

If anyone has any experience with optics having problems or not staying put then please share.

 

[Beck]

There is a member on here that has a ridiculous amount of experience in this realm. I am not sure about bases, but I do remember him saying that the Nikon Monarch (of all scopes) seemed to hold up the best against heavy recoiling rifles. I'm sure he'll have some advice on the rings/bases as well - hopefully he chimes in, can't remember his name.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I could tell you how to fix that problem, but you’d probably think I’m being a smart ass.

Seriously, some one will have a solution. Good luck.

 

[TennesseeHunter]

I don’t have any issues, so far, with the bigger screws and pins, just sharing experiences that I haven’t seen much of online.

That particular Swarovski has been perfect. Actually I’ve never had a problem with any actual scopes themselves. Even with stuff on the largest of handguns.

I appreciate the responses

 

[Goat416]

Pictures would be helpful.

While it is not quite the 460 Wby, my 416 Weatherby Mark V came with a Buehler 1-piece base with split rings and they have held up very well over time. The original owner mounted the scope and shot it extensively in Africa in the 90's. I have taken it to Africa twice and shot several hundred rounds over the years.

 

[DWB]

Too big and heavy of a scope for such a caliber.

Lighter straight tube scope should hold up better.

 

[TennesseeHunter]

The one of the broken screws is from a video so might be blurry.

And yes I assumed it was from the significant weight increase from the new mount set up. The scope is light relatively speaking. 17 ounces I think. I originally got it for a 375 h&h that I was wanting to keep light.

Then of course the picture of it fixed. Should be more than enough.
I’ll have to get a picture of those leupold mounts tomorrow.

 

[Goat416]

It’s difficult to pinpoint exactly what happened with your rifle based on the couple pictures you posted, and I’m not suggesting that this is the cause of your issue.

However, I’ve seen a similar situation in person at a range. The shooter was using a large-caliber magnum, though not quite as powerful as a .460 Wby. After examining the scope and rings, it was evident that there was a small amount of play in the rings when mounted to the rail. The scope had been positioned as far back as possible in the rail slots, and based on marks on the rail, it seemed that the recoil pushed the scope forward upon firing. Additionally, the shooter hadn’t torqued the scope rings properly, allowing the scope to shift within the rings. Our best guess was that the combined movement was enough to shear the bolts, much like what you’ve experienced.

It probably goes without saying, but when mounting a scope on a high-recoil rifle, it’s essential to position both rings as far forward in the rail slots as possible and torque all bolts to specs to minimize scope movement from recoil. While this may not always cause something as severe as sheared bolts, even slight movement can lead to shifts in your POI.

 

[TennesseeHunter]

Goat416, I believe what you describe would definitely cause problems.

If we’re looking for an exact cause I feel like it’s mostly the extra weight. Although it could very easily have been something like oil under the rail, perhaps I got sloppy with my torque wrench settings, if it’s even calibrated properly. 6-48 screws don’t have the widest range between target torque and yield point.

It’s worth noting I was shooting from a bench off a sandbag. A kinda short bench at that causing me to be pretty laid down. Not a lot of movement like when shooting offhand. I was trying to sight it in and was experiencing poi shifts / >4 moa groups. I had just changed powders and thought my loads were that bad. Shoots great now though.

 

[Philip Glass]

Too big and heavy of a scope for such a caliber.

Lighter straight tube scope should hold up better.

It's not the scope that is the problem he said it's the mounts.

 

[DWB]

It's not the scope that is the problem he said it's the mounts.

Well the mounts have to carry that heavy scope and as the recoil happens the scope wants to move with it.

Any way, that's what I learned about big bores, they are not kind to heavy scopes or their mounts.

 

[Luvthunt]

Well the mounts have to carry that heavy scope and as the recoil happens the scope wants to move with it.

Any way, that's what I learned about big bores, they are not kind to heavy scopes or their mounts.

Would agree I have had three 458 Lotts and the second one had dual dovetail mounts and a Leupold 1x4 shotgun scope with a hvy duplex. Put more than 700 rounds thru that rifle and never a problem.

 

[pilar]

It's not the scope that is the problem he said it's the mounts.

On the scope testing forum on rockslide , All the bases are epoxied on to the action
To eliminate that common failure(. (bed the bases to the action with devcon 10110) but these are highly accurate utility weapons, not
Expensive show piece or collector rifles like people here use

 

[deewayne2003]

I think you are already halfway to solving the problem by opening up the stock holes to 8-40.

Next thing I would do is try a set of Talley integral rings/bases.

Weatherby Mark-V Scope Mounts (9 Lug-Magnum)

Made in America, these Weatherby Mark-V Scope Mounts made by Talley Manufacturing offer a unique and simplified one-piece scope ring and base

www.talleymanufacturing.com

Combining the 8-40 mounting screws with Talley one piece rings and bases will reduce the connection points as well as lower the total weight of the optic(scope+mounts) that are applying force to the mounting screws.

FYI - I was having the same issue with Leupold standard bases and rings coming apart with my .300Wby and switched to the Talley rings and problem solved.

 

[Papa72]