Has anyone from the UK taken a rifle to Zimbabwe for a hunt?

[Lancaster]

Hi

Has anyone taken rifles from the UK to hunt with in Zimbabwe?

If so did you apply for an export licence? If so was it a straightforward process?

Evidently there has been an arms embargo in place between the UK and Zimbabwe for a number of years.

Thanks in advance

 

[Major Bonkers]

Can't (legally) be done because of the export embargo, which includes importation of both weapons and ammunition.

In practice, you might be able to cross the Beit Bridge with a rifle, subject to bureaucracy and - no doubt - bribes. You would have to get permission for a temporary import into South Africa first, which includes a letter from the outfitter (whom you would effectively be asking to lie on your behalf). You would run all sorts of risks of confiscation. A chap that I was at school with was thrown into jail for two weeks in Zimbabwe during his gap year because he had been (wrongly) suspected of being a British spy (and that was in the late '80s).

More relevantly, you are potentially f-ing it up for the rest of us: it is no secret that that African hunting is in the spotlight at the moment and the last thing needed is some illegality becoming public. Please don't do it.

 

[Lancaster]

Can't (legally) be done because of the export embargo, which includes importation of both weapons and ammunition.

In practice, you might be able to cross the Beit Bridge with a rifle, subject to bureaucracy and - no doubt - bribes. You would have to get permission for a temporary import into South Africa first, which includes a letter from the outfitter (whom you would effectively be asking to lie on your behalf). You would run all sorts of risks of confiscation. A chap that I was at school with was thrown into jail for two weeks in Zimbabwe during his gap year because he had been (wrongly) suspected of being a British spy (and that was in the late '80s).

More relevantly, you are potentially f-ing it up for the rest of us: it is no secret that that African hunting is in the spotlight at the moment and the last thing needed is some illegality becoming public. Please don't do it.

Thanks, I never for one moment intimated that I would do anything illegal

 

[SRvet]

Can't (legally) be done because of the export embargo, which includes importation of both weapons and ammunition.

In practice, you might be able to cross the Beit Bridge with a rifle, subject to bureaucracy and - no doubt - bribes. You would have to get permission for a temporary import into South Africa first, which includes a letter from the outfitter (whom you would effectively be asking to lie on your behalf). You would run all sorts of risks of confiscation. A chap that I was at school with was thrown into jail for two weeks in Zimbabwe during his gap year because he had been (wrongly) suspected of being a British spy (and that was in the late '80s).

More relevantly, you are potentially f-ing it up for the rest of us: it is no secret that that African hunting is in the spotlight at the moment and the last thing needed is some illegality becoming public. Please don't do it.

Can I ask in which jurisdiction you think the crime would be committed? Would it be in the UK (if an export permit had been issued by his majesty’s government for the trip), in South Africa or in Zimbabwe? I’m assuming a permit from SAPS can be obtained to allow transit through RSA l, as I saw it on the Rifle permits website and it seems like import permits are issued routinely on arrival at the airport in Harare for a small fee. It’s a lot of paperwork I’m sure but I can’t see who else could be involved! Just trying to understand the ramifications……

 

[Mekaniks]

@norfolk shooter might have a suggestion?

 

[Major Bonkers]

The UK and EU both prohibit the export of arms and ammunition to Zimbabwe. This includes temporary importation for safari. Anyone breaching that prohibition will be in breach of UK or EU law.

To search up all the references will take me more time than I want to spend on this issue, but a couple of hours of to-and-fro on Google will, I am sure, confirm this.

In the UK, where an over-powered air rifle is treated in law as the same as an unregistered machine-gun, and Mr. Plod treats any larking about with an air rifle by sending along the armed response unit, you would be looking at the loss of your Firearms Certificate, a fine, and, I would imagine, some time in chokey.

As an aside, I have tried to export (permanently) a rifle from the UK to South Africa. It is theoretically possible, but effectively impossible, because an importer is required to use third party shipping agents, which obviously hugely increase the costs. The story goes that apparently some a-hole imported a rifle on his own account and, while the rifle was still in bureaucratic no-man's land - not officially registered in SA - used it to poach a rhinoceros. The result has been a clamp-down on the private importation of rifles.

I don't know if Bwana Carruthers (Kevin Peacocke) has anything to add. Even if you could find a legal way of importing a rifle to Zimbabwe, I am convinced that the aggro and cost of doing so would be disproportionate.

 

[SRvet]

I really appreciate your reply. I guess I’m finding mixed messages between web forums and my other research and I’m keen to find out if I’m missing something.
The UK government information suggests that an offence would be committed by travelling with firearms without an export license, but that temporary export is permitted under the terms of a properly issued export license which evaluates the risks of the export. There are also exemptions to requiring export licenses for certain items where they remain personal property of the traveller. The example given of this was of a personal Kevlar vest that would normally be subject to controls under the embargo but can be carried as personal PPE. The export permit process seems a bit long winded but the people assessing the application seem switched on and sensible.
A question to all the residents of Zim and @Kevin Peacocke do you know of any issues from the Zimbabwe side?

 

[wesheltonj]

Here’s how you do it. You get a plane ticket to JNB and a separate ticket from JNB to where you are going In Zimbabwe. And the same in reverse. The tickets cannot be tied to the same reservation. You will have to collect your gun in JNB and recheck it to Zimbabwe. Extra time and expense.

You can’t take a gun from the UK or the EU or even change planes in the UK or EU to Zimbabwe because of the embargo.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I really appreciate your reply. I guess I’m finding mixed messages between web forums and my other research and I’m keen to find out if I’m missing something.
The UK government information suggests that an offence would be committed by travelling with firearms without an export license, but that temporary export is permitted under the terms of a properly issued export license which evaluates the risks of the export. There are also exemptions to requiring export licenses for certain items where they remain personal property of the traveller. The example given of this was of a personal Kevlar vest that would normally be subject to controls under the embargo but can be carried as personal PPE. The export permit process seems a bit long winded but the people assessing the application seem switched on and sensible.
A question to all the residents of Zim and @Kevin Peacocke do you know of any issues from the Zimbabwe side?

Let me ask for the facts and get back to you.

 

[SRvet]

Let me ask for the facts and get back to you.

You are a gentleman Thanks very much

 

[spike.t]

Here’s how you do it. You get a plane ticket to JNB and a separate ticket from JNB to where you are going In Zimbabwe. And the same in reverse. The tickets cannot be tied to the same reservation. You will have to collect your gun in JNB and recheck it to Zimbabwe. Extra time and expense.

You can’t take a gun from the UK or the EU or even change planes in the UK or EU to Zimbabwe because of the embargo.

As said here....if you want to do it this is the only way....your end destination on the booking cannot show Zimbabwe as final destination due to the prementioned embargo....so ticket to joburg and separate one from joburg to zim....and same on way back...the embargo has been in place for quite a while...so 2 return tickets...UK to SA return..then SA to zim return....know its been done but bit of a pain in the ass ..

 

[mark-hunter]

There was a case (mentioned on forum) when German hunters were arrested for trying to board the plane for Zim, due to this embargo.
On the other hand, Americans frequently go to Zim (under same embargo), they collect baggage in Johannesburg, clear the guns there, check in again, and fly to Zim.

Our sponsor @TRAVEL EXPRESS agency specializes in arranging international travel for hunters, and with guns. You may ask them for advice and use their services.

 

[Major Bonkers]

There remain two problems.

(1) Even going via SA to Zimbabwe, you are still knowingly importing a rifle.

Or mens rea as it's known to lawyers. A work-around does not make it any less illegal.

(2) To obtain a SA temporary import permit, you need to supply a letter from your outfitter (see: https://phasa.co.za/pre-issued-permits/). Will they accept a letter from a Zimbabwean outfitter to allow you to import a rifle to SA? I dunno. Maybe, but it's going to be aggro and will leave behind a documentary trail.

Finally, unlike most departments of the UK government, I found the firearms export/ import department surprisingly helpful. I suggest that you write them an e-mail at: enquiries.ilb@trade.gov.uk

 

[Aaron N]

As said here....if you want to do it this is the only way....your end destination on the booking cannot show Zimbabwe as final destination due to the prementioned embargo....so ticket to joburg and separate one from joburg to zim....and same on way back...the embargo has been in place for quite a while...so 2 return tickets...UK to SA return..then SA to zim return....know its been done but bit of a pain in the ass ..

And what paperwork is there to do from jnb to Zim?

 

[Dinsdale]

There remain two problems.

(1) Even going via SA to Zimbabwe, you are still knowingly importing a rifle.

Or mens rea as it's known to lawyers. A work-around does not make it any less illegal.

(2) To obtain a SA temporary import permit, you need to supply a letter from your outfitter (see: https://phasa.co.za/pre-issued-permits/). Will they accept a letter from a Zimbabwean outfitter to allow you to import a rifle to SA? I dunno. Maybe, but it's going to be aggro and will leave behind a documentary trail.

Finally, unlike most departments of the UK government, I found the firearms export/ import department surprisingly helpful. I suggest that you write them an e-mail at: enquiries.ilb@trade.gov.uk

When you claim bags in J’berg you get a transit permit (same form as any visiting hunter) and you use a Zim outfitter letter, and need to have airline ticketing details for your flights. I’ve stayed a few days in J’berg with an in transit permit no problem.

I know someone (UK citizen) who does this regular. They book separate ticketing to J’berg and separate ticket to Harare.

 

[BRICKBURN]

And what paperwork is there to do from jnb to Zim?

IMPORTING FIREARMS INTO ZIMBABWE Documentation for temporary importation of firearms into Zimbabwe is simple; a temporary firearms import permit will be issued to you by Zimbabwe customs on arrival at Harare International Airport. Please ensure it is completed in four copies.
DOCUMENTS NEEDED FOR THE TEMPORARY IMPORTATION OF FIREARMS INTO ZIMBABWE

• A letter of invitation from your outfitter confirming his outfitter licence number, the hunt dates, location of the hunt, species you will be hunting, and the firearms he
suggests you bring for the hunt (appropriate calibres for the species).
• Proof of Ownership:
o For US citizens, a Notarised copy US Customs Form 4457 OR a letter from your local sheriff in the form of an affidavit confirming ownership OR an invoice from the gun shop where you purchased the firearms.
o Other Nationality Hunters. A copy of your firearms licence. In addition to this a Notarised copy of the documentary proof of export of the firearms in the form of a letter from your local Police or Customs office confirming there is no objection to taking your firearms out of the country. Letter must be on a Police Department/Customs letterhead.
Please note, a Notarised copy of a document must be stamped and signed by a Notary Public, stating that the document is a true copy of the original.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Not possible. Upon arrival into SA you are given a temporary jmport permit into SA which is also your export permit back to where you came from, not somewhere else. When you go to check in to the Zim flight you need to show your export permit from SA to Zim. When you arrive in Zim you need to show the same export permit from SA, which of course you don’t have. So firstly you will not be allowed to check your rifle into the Zim flight, but even if a switched off SAP officer were to miss that you would definitely not also get past the Zim side. Now you will be in Zim with a ‘illegal’ weapon, which won’t end well. Don’t do it.

 

[Major Bonkers]

Perhaps also ask the Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa (PHASA).

e-mail Teresa du Plooy at: phasa@phasa.co.za

 

[mark-hunter]

Not possible.

So, how are they doing it?
This basically means, if I want to hunt in Zim, it must be with rented rifle. (A turn off, for many hunters)
In my particular case, it means - South Africa is only option to hunt buffalo, on reasonable price.

A second question is:
Why is this embargo established? There is no ongoing war, nor anarchy ongoing in Zim? Why there is this embargo in a first place? Any chance of removing embargo?

 

[spike.t]

A second question is:
Why is this embargo established? There is no ongoing war, nor anarchy ongoing in Zim? Why there is this embargo in a first place? Any chance of removing embargo?

Still in place due to do with the general state of play of even the present zim president and government......and was put in place in first place due to mugabes how shall we say behaviour and doings..