Harald Wolf Gunsmith

[Hoss Delgado]

Taylor doesn't pull any punches commenting on the 11.2x72 or for his dislike of the .425 WR. I assume he was not a fan of rebated rim cartridges?

Oddly enough , he sings high praise of the .500 Jeffery . Though , in his book " Pondoro : Last Ivory Hunter " , he reports that Fletcher Jamieson ( prior to his death in 1947 ) went on a final Elephant hunt with his .500 Jeffery W J Jeffery Mauser and suffered 8 misfires.
Though , one must remember that the only .500 Jeffery Ammunition existing at the time was old stocks of German Ammunition which had ceased to be produced in 1939 . So Fletcher was using old Ammunition which was made at least 9 years prior to him using them.

 

[Red Leg]

Other than British chauvinism, I do think that the Germans had more trouble building bullets that would stand up to African game. The English seemed to have had a fairly sharp learning curve with the failure of so many BPE bullets to keep their owners out of trouble with lions and buffalo.

With respect to Jamieson, who knows. It could have been the ammunition if badly stored or a worn firing pin spring. Adopted by the British in 1920 and rebranded the .500, I would have assumed British ammunition would have been available. I would have thought old German stocks should have been pretty rare in East Africa that many years after the end of the First World War. It would be interesting to see how much Was produced after the war - I suspect very little. That said, he wouldn't have been the first ivory hunter trying to maximize profits by scrimping where he could.

Just wish he had lived long enough to have published his book and his photography. With his experiences and gifted eye for photography, it would have been a classic.

Bill Jones, who must have the most historically important Safari rifle collection on the planet, owns Jamieson’s 500. It is a classic single bridge Mauser ordered in the late thirties.

But my reason for dropping the 11.2 project and the rifle was that I couldn’t see putting all that effort into recreating what was essentially a .458. I will say with it’s 26 inch barrel and 3/4 stock it was an elegant thing.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Other than British chauvinism, I do think that the Germans had more trouble building bullets that would stand up to African game. The English seemed to have had a fairly sharp learning curve with the failure of so many BPE bullets to keep their owners out of trouble with lions and buffalo.

With respect to Jamieson, who knows. It could have been the ammunition if badly stored or a worn firing pin spring. Adopted by the British in 1920 and rebranded the .500, I would have assumed British ammunition would have been available. I would have thought old German stocks should have been pretty rare in East Africa that many years after the end of the First World War. It would be interesting to see how much Was produced after the war - I suspect very little. That said, he wouldn't have been the first ivory hunter trying to maximize profits by scrimping where he could.

Just wish he had lived long enough to have published his book and his photography. With his experiences and gifted eye for photography, it would have been a classic.

Bill Jones, who must have the most historically important Safari rifle collection on the planet, owns Jamieson’s 500. It is a classic single bridge Mauser ordered in the late thirties.

But my reason for dropping the 11.2 project and the rifle was that I couldn’t see putting all that effort into recreating what was essentially a .458. I will say with it’s 26 inch barrel and 3/4 stock it was an elegant thing.

I don't think it was a worn firing pin spring . The new owner of the gun reported that it fires with no problems .
If l knew you back then , l actually would have bought that 11.2 × 72 Schuler from you Now , l can't find any at all.
BTW , Red Leg , may l ask two questions :
1) Did yours have a single or a double trigger ?
2) If l cut / machine some monolithic solids myself from Brass Bar stock , do you think l could safely use them in the 11.2 × 72 Schuler Mauser safely ?

 

[Red Leg]

I don't think it was a worn firing pin spring . The new owner of the gun reported that it fires with no problems .
If l knew you back then , l actually would have bought that 11.2 × 72 Schuler from you Now , l can't find any at all.
BTW , Red Leg , may l ask two questions :
1) Did yours have a single or a double trigger ?
2) If l cut / machine some monolithic solids myself from Brass Bar stock , do you think l could safely use them in the 11.2 × 72 Schuler Mauser safely ?

Double trigger. Another problem with German designs of the day. Gunmakers were superb at building rifles for red stag, boar, etc. The early dangerous game rifles essentially duplicated those attributes around a larger bullet.

That is really up to you, your experience in that sort of work, and your machining skills. You would need to find a bullet you know that works, determine its alloy content, then exactly match its dimensions - time after time after time.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Double trigger. Another problem with German designs of the day. Gunmakers were superb at building rifles for red stag, boar, etc. The early dangerous game rifles essentially duplicated those attributes around a larger bullet.

That is really up to you, your experience in that sort of work, and your machining skills. You would need to find a bullet you know that works, determine its alloy content, then exactly match its dimensions - time after time after time.

Thanks , Red Leg . Appreciate it . If l find one in an auction , l will convert it to single trigger

 

[grand veneur]

I have a old rifle caliber 11,2x72 built 1923 from August Schüler. I even shot a buffalo with it once.

The cartridge can be compared to a 404 Jeffery , as far as their power is concerned , but no more. There are not hidden potentialities. It was a compromise to fit into a standard Mauser action and a stronger version of the cartridge 10,75x68 , more suitable for hunting big game than the latter.

I do not share the enthusiasm of Mr. Wolf for this obsolete cartridge.

 

[Pondoro]

Other than British chauvinism, I do think that the Germans had more trouble building bullets that would stand up to African game. The English seemed to have had a fairly sharp learning curve with the failure of so many BPE bullets to keep their owners out of trouble with lions and buffalo.

With respect to Jamieson, who knows. It could have been the ammunition if badly stored or a worn firing pin spring. Adopted by the British in 1920 and rebranded the .500, I would have assumed British ammunition would have been available. I would have thought old German stocks should have been pretty rare in East Africa that many years after the end of the First World War. It would be interesting to see how much Was produced after the war - I suspect very little. That said, he wouldn't have been the first ivory hunter trying to maximize profits by scrimping where he could.

Just wish he had lived long enough to have published his book and his photography. With his experiences and gifted eye for photography, it would have been a classic.

Bill Jones, who must have the most historically important Safari rifle collection on the planet, owns Jamieson’s 500. It is a classic single bridge Mauser ordered in the late thirties.

But my reason for dropping the 11.2 project and the rifle was that I couldn’t see putting all that effort into recreating what was essentially a .458. I will say with it’s 26 inch barrel and 3/4 stock it was an elegant thing.

Jamieson ordered the .500 Jeffery bespoke somewhere in the 1930´s....from Jeffery in London. He presumably ordered ammunition from Jeffery along with it..

This was german ammo from GECO (Gustav Genschow & Co) ammo that probably Taylor shot when he borrowed the rifle from Jamieson.

Pre WW2 german large bore ammo had lousy bullets, Kynoch´s where better (but failed frequently..) and Rigby´s bullets where the best, at least their solids..

As I understand it, no .500 Jeffery ammo was made in England prior to WW2..
When Kynoch (Kynamco) revived this round David Little CIP approved his ammunition to a little different dimensions than the original round. Norma followed this New CIP standard for their ammo too..

 

[Red Leg]

Yep. You are correct that is the ammo supply history for the original .500’s. My point being, this would have been manufactured in the same time period. The bullets were pretty awful, but it is hard to conceive of misfires due to “old” ammo. But it could be, and we will never know.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I have a old rifle caliber 11,2x72 built 1923 from August Schüler. I even shot a buffalo with it once.

The cartridge can be compared to a 404 Jeffery , as far as their power is concerned , but no more. There are not hidden potentialities. It was a compromise to fit into a standard Mauser action and a stronger version of the cartridge 10,75x68 , more suitable for hunting big game than the latter.

I do not share the enthusiasm of Mr. Wolf for this obsolete cartridge.

Really ?! I have a huge interest in this round.
Where did you source your Ammunition ? What bullets did you use ?
Would it be adequate for Elephant ?

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Jamieson ordered the .500 Jeffery bespoke somewhere in the 1930´s....from Jeffery in London. He presumably ordered ammunition from Jeffery along with it..

This was german ammo from GECO (Gustav Genschow & Co) ammo that probably Taylor shot when he borrowed the rifle from Jamieson.

Pre WW2 german large bore ammo had lousy bullets, Kynoch´s where better (but failed frequently..) and Rigby´s bullets where the best, at least their solids..

As I understand it, no .500 Jeffery ammo was made in England prior to WW2..
When Kynoch (Kynamco) revived this round David Little CIP approved his ammunition to a little different dimensions than the original round. Norma followed this New CIP standard for their ammo too..

+1 Pondoro. Here is An Illustration on Taylor's book showing how badly the .500 Jeffery 535 grain Full patch round nose solids got distorted upon use on Elephant.
Praise be to God that nowadays we have the 570 Grain Monolithic meplat brass Solids in this caliber. I think the 600 grain fmj woodleigh bullet for the .505 Gibbs Magnum is more powerful than the 535 grain .500 Jeffery with Kynoch full metal jacket round nose.

 

[grand veneur]

Really ?! I have a huge interest in this round.
Where did you source your Ammunition ? What bullets did you use ?
Would it be adequate for Elephant ?

Unfortunately there are no factory loads. For loading i was lucky to find shells at a Ammo trader , no more are produced , and there is only the 401gr SP bullet from Woodleigh. I consider this bullet marginal for hunting buffalos. I did it once , without problems , but i will not repeat it.

IMHO we have much better for hunting buffalos and elephants these days.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Unfortunately there are no factory loads. For loading i was lucky to find shells at a Ammo trader , no more are produced , and there is only the 401gr SP bullet from Woodleigh. I consider this bullet marginal for hunting buffalos. I did it once , without problems , but i will not repeat it.

IMHO we have much better for hunting buffalos and elephants these days.

Kurpfalzjager , you have my utmost respect ! For years l always wanted an 11.2 × 72 mm Schuler rifle after Reading Harald Wolf's " Hatari Times ". I read of Tony Sanchez Arino using a borrowed rifle in this caliber ( belonging to Otto Krohnert ) to kill 9 Bull Elephants , two with side brain shots and seven with heart shots. But l never met a hunter who actually used one , until you posted on my thread today .
And yes , l agree. There are better choices available. My workhorse rifle is a .375 HH Magnum. Some day , l will acquire either a .500 Jeffery Hambrusch Bolt action Detachable magazine rifle or a .505 Gibbs Bolt action rifle built on a BRNO ZKK - 602 action.
I do want an 11.2 × 72 Schuler for collection purposes . May l ask how many shots it took you to kill your buffalo ? Did you use lung shots or heart shots ?

 

[grand veneur]

With one shot, heart and/or lung i don't remember , has been some time ago. That does not mean much because I shot some buffalos with only one shot and that with various cartridges. A good shot placement is the key to success. When something goes wrong , then the cartridge and the bullet make the difference. As with the 10,75x68 cartridge i had in this case a lack of deep penetration and a breaking of the bullet. I was lucky and therefore i don't repeat it.

The cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler is a old one and due to the low capacity of the shell it is difficult to get a high muzzle velocity of the bullet , amongst other things. With modern bullet it is certainly suitable for buffalo hunting , if you know the limits of this cartridge.

August Schüler really had something to offer the posterity with the cartridge 12,7x70 Schüler. The cartridge 404 Magnum Schüler could have been even better , but probably remained only a project.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

With one shot, heart and/or lung i don't remember , has been some time ago. That does not mean much because I shot some buffalos with only one shot and that with various cartridges. A good shot placement is the key to success. When something goes wrong , then the cartridge and the bullet make the difference. As with the 10,75x68 cartridge i had in this case a lack of deep penetration and a breaking of the bullet. I was lucky and therefore i don't repeat it.

The cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler is a old one and due to the low capacity of the shell it is difficult to get a high muzzle velocity of the bullet , amongst other things. With modern bullet it is certainly suitable for buffalo hunting , if you know the limits of this cartridge.

If l cut solid Monolithic bullets from Brass Bar stock for this caliber in 401 grain weight , do you think it would work in the old Schuler rifles ?

 

[grand veneur]

Everything is possible in new barrels , but with old ones i would be carefull by using monolithic bullets. You can not be completely sure about the right diameter.

The next problem will be to find a new barrel for this cartridge. I wish you much fun in the search.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Everything is possible in new barrels , but with old ones i would be carefull by using monolithic bullets. You can not be completely sure about the right diameter.

The next problem will be to find a new barrel for this cartridge. I wish you much fun in the search.

Thank you ! I may occasionally inbox you from time to time asking for advice regarding this cartridge !
Hoss

 

[Hermannski]

That's really sad to hear. I read his excellent article on the 11.2 × 72 mm Schuler last night. It was very well written. I believe he is the only writer to make any detailled analysis on the 11.2 × 72 mm Schuler. His friend , Jannie Meyer in Mozambique used to own an August Schuler Model 34 in this caliber ( which originally belonged to Jannie's father Johan who purchased it in the 1920s when he became an ivory hunter ) . Jannie was a professional Hunter who would use his father's old rifle to crop elephant until the early 1980s when all of the existing stocks of pre war 11.2 × 72 Schuler Ammunition got exhausted. I found that bit really interesting. 11.2×72 Schuler Ammunition stopped being manufactured in 1939 and never resumed after the second world war. Johan and his Son , Jannie must have had A LOT of surplus 11.2mm Ammunition in stock to last them 40 plus years .
If he was still making rifles , l would definitely order an 11.2 × 72 Schuler rifle from him .
The only 11.2 × 72 Schuler rifles in existence now are the August Schuler Model 34 rifles made before World War II . Due to the rifles being built on a cheap military issued standard Mauser 98 action , all the factory Ammunition was manufactured so that the 11.2 × 72 Schuler bullets were seated really abnormally deep into their cartridges , so that the Cartridges could be made to fit into the standard M98 magazines. This of course caused case capacity issues due to not enough powder being put into the cases. Mr. Wolf believed that by building one of these rifles on a Magnum Mauser action , he could then load it with cartridges where the bullets weren't so deeply seated ( thus increasing powder capacity and power ) .
And this would make it a superior weapon than it ever was in the pre war days.
Too bad we never got to test his theory .

Hello ,
mr Wolf built a rifle to me in 11,2x72 in 2007. It is a really good rifle.
It works very well and I Hunt a lot with it. Now I run out of Ammunition.
I stupidly did not keep the shell. But I buy 40 Rounds. I have to find one who reload it for me with 28g Bullits.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hello ,
mr Wolf built a rifle to me in 11,2x72 in 2007. It is a really good rifle.
It works very well and I Hunt a lot with it. Now I run out of Ammunition.
I stupidly did not keep the shell. But I buy 40 Rounds. I have to find one who reload it for me with 28g Bullits.

Hello What do you hunt with it ? And do you use solid bullets or expanding bullets ? And where did you get your Ammunition from ? I would love the details

 

[Hermannski]

I used the rifle on big game as well as on plainsgame hunts. It was made by Mr. Wolf as an open sight with a very fine corn.
This also allowed me shots from over 100 meters.
For me it was a new experience that an open sight rifle is so accurate to shoot.
I have been able to use this good on hunting springbock and other plains game as well. The most important component of a rifle is the trigger, which has to form a unity with the brain of the hunter. This is perfectly successful for Mr. wolf. Also on buffalo and elephant I had good results and short escape routes. The Dugga Boy and later an Cow I shot with 28 g Woodley Verbundkern and the trophie Tusker with full Metall Jacket, Also from Woodley. The Ammunition from 120 Rounds was made by Harald Wolf.
in the picture the rifle can be seen. I have taped the flap , because I feared that during a hard hunt in the bush, she would get up.
I used google translate to write these lines because my English isn t so good....

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I used the rifle on big game as well as on plainsgame hunts. It was made by Mr. Wolf as an open sight with a very fine corn.
This also allowed me shots from over 100 meters.
For me it was a new experience that an open sight rifle is so accurate to shoot.
I have been able to use this good on hunting springbock and other plains game as well. The most important component of a rifle is the trigger, which has to form a unity with the brain of the hunter. This is perfectly successful for Mr. wolf. Also on buffalo and elephant I had good results and short escape routes. The Dugga Boy and later an Cow I shot with 28 g Woodley Verbundkern and the trophie Tusker with full Metall Jacket, Also from Woodley. The Ammunition from 120 Rounds was made by Harald Wolf.
in the picture the rifle can be seen. I have taped the flap , because I feared that during a hard hunt in the bush, she would get up.
I used google translate to write these lines because my English isn t so good....

Your English is perfect Do you know where l can get full metal jacket Ammunition for the 11.2 × 72 Schuler now ?
Also , is gun gun built on a Magnum Mauser action or a standard Mauser action ?