guns

[ellie123]

I wish you all the best in you quest to become a PH Ellie!

Thank you very much !!

 

[Red Leg]

I think that is a very misleading data point with respect to a country like Zimbabwe or Zambia. Like much of the undeveloped third world, the vast majority of the population of these countries live in a condition of poverty that is almost unimaginable to the typical American or European. A PH, who is indeed a professional hunter, is not part of the teaming mass of that population. His or her income needs to be measured against other professional and literate occupations within the economy. Against that measure, their professionalism is poorly rewarded indeed, and I am happy to make some contribution to bridging that gap with a tip.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I have been on upwards of two dozen African safaris between 1974 and 2022 (having just returned from a hippopotamus hunt in Zimbabwe this year), with my next safari planned in 2024. During this time, I’ve interacted (and hunted) with a great many white hunters. Contrary to what the writings of Robert Ruark or Earnest Hemmingway will tell you, reality is not as glamorous as fiction.

On the subject of firearms, it is very few white hunters who such own expensive wares as Holland & Holland or John Rigby rifles. I had the same impression as you when I went on my life’s first African safari in Kenya in 1974. My white hunter, Mr. Cheffings was using a B.S.A Majestic in .458 Winchester Magnum as his dangerous backup rifle of choice. For his clients, he also had a BRNO ZKK602 in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum in camp. His total armaments consisted of:
- A .458 Winchester Magnum B.S.A Majestic
- A .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602
- A .30-06 Springfield BRNO ZKK600
- A .243 Winchester B.S.A Majestic
- A 12 Gauge (2 3/4”) Webley & Scott Model 700

Very affordable modestly priced firearms. In my African Safaris over the last 48 years, I’ve noticed that Winchester Model 70 rifles and BRNO ZKK series rifles (or custom pieces built on the actions of the rifles which I’ve mentioned) are by far the most popular choices amongst white hunters (with .416 Remington Magnum and .458 Lott being the most common calibers). Among those who prefer double rifles, I’ve seen more wares from German Kreighoff and Merkel and Heym brands than any of the English brands (virtually all of them being in .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express caliber).

Those who do use English double rifles, almost never ordered them brand new but rather bought them second hand or as part of an Estate sale.

For example …my friend, Jeff Rann used the following double rifles (chronologically) in his career:
- Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector in .500/465 Nitro Express
- Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector .577 Nitro Express
- Beretta sidelock ejector .470 Nitro Express
- William Evans boxlock ejector .500 Nitro Express (which he currently uses, along with a custom .505 Gibbs built on a Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action by John Bolliger)
Barring the Beretta double rifle (which was actually given to Jeff by Beretta when he was doing a show for them), all of the other double rifles were purchased by Jeff second hand.

Another example is my friend, Mark Sullivan. His seven most prominent double rifles are:
- Army & Navy boxlock ejector .450/400 Nitro Express
- Joseph Lang boxlock ejector .450 #2 Nitro Express
- William Evans boxlock ejector .500 Nitro Express
- Charles Osborne boxlock non ejector .577 Nitro Express
- Heym Jumbo sidelock ejector .577 Nitro Express (his current backup rifle of choice)
- Marcel Thys sidelock ejector .600 Nitro Express (sold after 6 years of use)
- Watson Brothers sidelock ejector .700 Nitro Express (virtually never used and sold in 2007)
Barring the Marcel Thys double rifle (which he ordered in 1996), the Watson Brothers double rifle (which he ordered in 1997) and his Heym double rifle, all of the others were purchased second hand as various auctions.

Other examples include the late Dave Ommanney, who used a second hand rebarreled John Rigby & Co. Rising Bite .470 Nitro Express (that was originally made for someone else in 1912). Or living legend, Robin Hurt whose famed William Evans boxlock ejector .470 Nitro Express and .500 Nitro Express double rifles were both purchased second hand. His .470 Nitro Express was originally built in 1919 and he purchased it second hand from Tony Archer in 1968 (at half of the rifle’s original price). His .500 Nitro Express was originally built in 1926 and he purchased it in an estate sale. Even the late Harry Selby (probably the gentleman who singlehandedly popularized the .416 Rigby caliber) bought his .416 caliber John Rigby & Co. Mauser second hand.

Only a very very privileged few (such as Tony Sanchez Arino) can/could afford to commission an entire battery of expensive firearms brand new. And even his A. Hollis & Sons boxlock ejector .577 Nitro Express was originally built between 1905-1919 and purchased by him second hand.


All the best with your future career.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I have been on upwards of two dozen safaris between 1974 and 2022 (having just returned from a hippopotamus hunt in Zimbabwe this year), with my next safari planned in 2024. During this time, I’ve interacted (and hunted) with a great many white hunters. Contrary to what the writings of Robert Ruark or Earnest Hemmingway will tell you, reality is not as glamorous as fiction.

On the subject of firearms, it is very few white hunters who such own expensive wares as Holland & Holland or John Rigby rifles. I had the same impression as you when I went on my life’s first African safari in Kenya in 1974. My white hunter, Mr. Cheffings was using a B.S.A Majestic in .458 Winchester Magnum as his dangerous backup rifle of choice. For his clients, he also had a BRNO ZKK602 in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum in camp. His total armaments consisted of:
- A .458 Winchester Magnum B.S.A Majestic
- A .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602
- A .30-06 Springfield BRNO ZKK600
- A .243 Winchester B.S.A Majestic
- A 12 Gauge (2 3/4”) Webley & Scott Model 700

Very affordable modestly priced firearms. In my African Safaris over the last 48 years, I’ve noticed that Winchester Model 70 rifles and BRNO ZKK series rifles (or custom pieces built on the actions of the rifles which I’ve mentioned) are by far the most popular choices amongst white hunters (with .416 Remington Magnum and .458 Lott being the most common calibers). Among those who prefer double rifles, I’ve seen more wares from German Kreighoff and Merkel and Heym brands than any of the English brands (virtually all of them being in .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express caliber).

Those who do use English double rifles, almost never ordered them brand new but rather bought them second hand or as part of an Estate sale.

For example …my friend, Jeff Rann used the following double rifles (chronologically) in his career:
- Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector in .500/465 Nitro Express
- Holland & Holland Royal sidelock ejector .577 Nitro Express
- Beretta sidelock ejector .470 Nitro Express
- William Evans boxlock ejector .500 Nitro Express (which he currently uses, along with a custom .505 Gibbs built on a Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action by John Bolliger)
Barring the Beretta double rifle (which was actually given to Jeff by Beretta when he was doing a show for them), all of the other double rifles were purchased by Jeff second hand.

Another example is my friend, Mark Sullivan. His seven most prominent double rifles are:
- Army & Navy boxlock ejector .450/400 Nitro Express
- Joseph Lang boxlock ejector .450 #2 Nitro Express
- William Evans boxlock ejector .500 Nitro Express
- Charles Osborne boxlock non ejector .577 Nitro Express
- Heym Jumbo sidelock ejector .577 Nitro Express (his current backup rifle of choice)
- Marcel Thys sidelock ejector .600 Nitro Express (sold after 6 years of use)
- Watson Brothers sidelock ejector .700 Nitro Express (virtually never used and sold in 2007)
Barring the Marcel Thys double rifle (which he ordered in 1996), the Watson Brothers double rifle (which he ordered in 1997) and his Heym double rifle, all of the others were purchased second hand as various auctions.

Other examples include the late Dave Ommanney, who used a second hand rebarreled John Rigby & Co. Rising Bite .470 Nitro Express (that was originally made for someone else in 1912). Or living legend, Robin Hurt whose famed William Evans boxlock ejector .470 Nitro Express and .500 Nitro Express double rifles were both purchased second hand. His .470 Nitro Express was originally built in 1919 and he purchased it second hand from Tony Archer in 1968 (at half of the rifle’s original price). His .500 Nitro Express was originally built in 1926 and he purchased it in an estate sale. Even the late Harry Selby (probably the gentleman who singlehandedly popularized the .416 Rigby caliber) bought his .416 caliber John Rigby & Co. Mauser second hand.

Only a very very privileged few (such as Tony Sanchez Arino) can/could afford to commission an entire battery of expensive firearms brand new. And even his A. Hollis & Sons boxlock ejector .577 Nitro Express was originally built between 1905-1919 and purchased by him second hand.


All the best with your future career.

Wonderful history HH, thank you.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Wonderful history HH, thank you.

Just glad to be giving the new fellow a realistic idea, KP. You should have seen my pathetic reaction when I saw all of the firearms in my white hunter’s camp in 1974. Like, not even a W.J. Jeffery boxlock ejector in .450/400 Nitro Express ? Maybe he was hiding all the expensive stuff in the water tank…

 

[spike.t]

i would maybe like to get my licence in South Africa and would like to do my course with the wildlife collage as it’s a big interest to me and Kevin Robertson is a big inspiration of mine as
and i feel i would learn a lot from him.

Thank you for answering my question it was a big help to me in understanding on what sort of rifles they use and how i misunderstood some parts.

You can do the course....but not sure if you can get a license in SA if you aren't a citizen or have full residency....as said not sure...one of the SA people can give that info

 

[ellie123]

You can do the course....but not sure if you can get a license in SA if you aren't a citizen or have full residency....as said not sure...one of the SA people can give that info

oh i didn’t know that, hm will look into it

 

[Dragan N.]

I won't go into detail but the figures quoted above for average salary etc are largely based on unskilled or semi skilled staff. That's what makes up the bulk for the Zim workforce. So saying that the national average is $200 - $300 a month is misleading and I can guarantee you that anyone trying to live any sort of lifestyle that you would consider acceptable most definitely requires faaaaaaaar more than $300 a month. And no I'm not talking about a lavish lifestyle, I'm talking making ends meet.

Back on topic, a trainee PH will most probably be housed by the outfitter when in season and will probably stay with his/her folks out of season. In the beginning of your apprentice period you're going to be earning virtually nothing, a little bit of pay and you're going to be doing grunt work BUT you will be learning the tricks of the trade. Only once you have a lot of experience and you are providing a return on your labour will you start to make a bit of money. But don't expect to get rich. Tips get you through the month/year and if you're lucky they will also help you to buy a few extras that you might NEED.

Your rifle will probably not be a Rigby / H&H etc unless your have dosh and you buy it yourself, but more likely a CZ / Winchester / Remington / Brno / etc.

What figure exactly is faaaaaarr more than $300 month to live "acceptably" ? I ask because in say Croatia, $1000 euros a month is an average salary. You will not live lavishly with that salary but you can probably live "acceptably". Croatia is considered a developed high-income economy. Zimbabwe is not. So i assume in Zimbabwe you probably need less than $1000 a month to live "acceptably".

A PH in Zim is a highly skilled person who has completed an apprenticeship that can last as long as 5 years. He/she has also studied and written exams.
i employ many people in Zimbabwe and South Africa and a qualified PH on my ranking is a US$2000 a month minimum person.

This reinforces mark-hunter's point even more. I assume 2000 a month is a fanatastic salary in Zimbabwe. In Croatia $2000 a month is about the average salary for professionals- i.e. GP doctors, engineers, lawyers etc... So people who have spent several years studying in university and who probably have several years of work experience as well. I would assume that is a pretty "good" salary in Croatia. In Toronto, Canada if you make $2000 a month you will live in poverty. You won't exactly starve to death but food insecurity will be an issue. What is a good salary in a country is highly dependent on what the average salary and cost of living in that country is.

Now mark-hunter since you actually live in Croatia, if these numbers i have quoted about Croatian salaries are off please correct me. This is what I have heard from Croats I have talked to here in Canada. It may or may not be accurate.

 

[Zambezi]

What figure exactly is faaaaaarr more than $300 month to live "acceptably" ? I ask because in say Croatia, $1000 euros a month is an average salary. You will not live lavishly with that salary but you can probably live "acceptably". Croatia is considered a developed high-income economy. Zimbabwe is not. So i assume in Zimbabwe you probably need less than $1000 a month to live "acceptably".




This reinforces mark-hunter's point even more. I assume 2000 a month is a fanatastic salary in Zimbabwe. In Croatia $2000 a month is about the average salary for professionals- i.e. GP doctors, engineers, lawyers etc... So people who have spent several years studying in university and who probably have several years of work experience as well. I would assume that is a pretty "good" salary in Croatia. In Toronto, Canada if you make $2000 a month you will live in poverty. You won't exactly starve to death but food insecurity will be an issue. What is a good salary in a country is highly dependent on what the average salary and cost of living in that country is.

Now mark-hunter since you actually live in Croatia, if these numbers i have quoted about Croatian salaries are off please correct me. This is what I have heard from Croats I have talked to here in Canada. It may or may not be accurate.

You cannot extrapolate living expenses from one country to another, it simply does not work. To live in anything more than a tin shack will cost you more than $300 a month. That is before food, transport, medical, etc.

I can tell you that here in SA $1000 and you'll be broke by the third week of the month.
Two bedroom apartment / townhouse / cottage....... $450
Electricity, water ........................................................................$90
Food................................................................................................$150
Petrol..............................................................................................$300
Medical aid...................................................................................$200

That alone is already around $1200. You haven't even paid school fees yet (another $100/mth per child) the list goes on.

Croatia is not Africa.